Stallion Spotlight

Fasino-12-16-07-175

Real Estate Spotlight

barn1
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

George Morris on the SS list

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

    RAPE is sexual abuse, but not all sexual abuse is rape.

    We do not know that any of these people are guilty of rape, but we DO know that they are guilty of sexual abuse. THAT definition has changed.

    Please read my other post, then maybe I will have made myself more clear. I just really don't even know what to say at this point.

    Actually, I'll quote myself, to make it a bit easier:

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Thanks poltroon - it is a huge problem for sure.

    And I think those of us who knew about these things may not be judged kindly in the future when things come to light.

    I know one in my region, and I don't even know if there's anything to be done at this juncture. There were whispers then, but they were just whispers. They are married now. At the time, it was accepted. Not acceptable, but accepted. Should those of us who saw it as skeevy have said something? Yes, that would have benefitted her and probably stopped a predator. But it was culturally accepted (not acceptable) so no one said anything.

    So that people can maybe understand my position - I was definitely groomed by much older men in my early teens - think 12-13 years old. At the time, I saw the attention as flattering, and at the time I had absolutely no comprehension that it was something to be alarmed by.

    I see it as a benefit that I'm seeing those things now as not okay. I wish the adults around me had seen it as not ok, but they didn't. I was told that it was natural for older men to take an interest in young women. I was told that I was just "early to be sexually attractive". It *was* culturally acceptable in the 90s to call a 12 year old sexy.

    I still struggle with my rape in my early 20s because of the conversations around what a woman should and should not do and the cultural acceptance of blame because of drinking to excess (both me and my rapist)

    Was it wrong then? Yes. Was it accepted then societally that it was my fault? Yes. Is it still? That's starting to change.

    It's a GOOD thing, but what I wouldn't have given for someone back in the 90s to say to me "hey, I get it that you were drinking, but it still isn't ok". But that didn't happen because at that point in time it was tacitly acknowledged that a woman who is drinking is opening herself up for rape. In fact, a college roommate of mine was raped at a fraternity and had to leave because it was still accepted that women were "setting themselves up" by going to fraternity parties.

    We should *all* be acting like those things that have the potential to harm others are wrong, regardless of their past history, but we should also acknowledge that the people THEN didn't think that the others were doing wrong, so that NOW with the benefit of hindsight we can say "hey, we'll do better by going above and beyond what culture says is ok".
    You seem to be talking about a whole raft of other issues. If a teacher has sex with an underage student, it is rape. It has not been OK in my lifetime. It was not accepted when I was a teen in high school. The difference is that such an act may be prosecuted publicly now when it might not have been back then. But the system did not look the other way and "accept" teachers diddling students back then. At the very least, suspicious teachers were removed.

    Once a student graduated, then things were different. Could a teacher have "groomed" a student before graduation in order to seduce them after graduation, after they were considered adult? Sure. But that is not what we are talking here. It is a different issue.

    The issue of blaming the victim is a whole 'nother issue.

    The issue of what is rape and what are other forms of sexual assault is a different issue.

    In my lifetime, it has never been "accepted" that teachers could have any form of sex (rape) with underage students.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

      except no one is banned or sanctioned based on a single uncorroborated allegation.

      This is a red herring.
      Could you show me the rule you are talking about? Are you saying there always must be more than one accuser before SafeSport will impose a sanction? Are you saying there always must be a corroborating witness before a sanction will be imposed? I didn't see any of that in the rules.

      And in any event, that does not address my concern. What if the 3rd party witness could prove that both Accuser and Accuser's Friend are lying, but under SafeSport rules there is no way to get the 3rd party witness's testimony?

      That is the concern I am raising. SafeSport has truncated the normal JAMS arbitration procedures.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
        So that people can maybe understand my position - I was definitely groomed by much older men in my early teens - think 12-13 years old. At the time, I saw the attention as flattering, and at the time I had absolutely no comprehension that it was something to be alarmed by.

        I see it as a benefit that I'm seeing those things now as not okay. I wish the adults around me had seen it as not ok, but they didn't. I was told that it was natural for older men to take an interest in young women. I was told that I was just "early to be sexually attractive". It *was* culturally acceptable in the 90s to call a 12 year old sexy.
        I grew up as a teenager in the 90s and I definitely KNEW it was not okay for men to take an extra interest in minors. And the adults around me would never encourage it or think it was okay. In fact, we were specifically taught about this at home and in school as part of how to stay safe and how to identify "wrong" actions by adults. And it was not culturally acceptable to call a 12 year old "sexy" either.

        My experiences were in California, Georgia, and Pennsylvania in the 80s and 90s, so I feel pretty confidant about the morals and values of this time period.

        As others have said again and again, IT HAS NEVER BEEN OKAY to sexually groom, assault, abuse, or rape a minor.

        I am not saying you did not experience what you describe, but in a discussion about sexual predators, in which they are being defended with the excuse that it was okay "back then," this part of the quoted post just sounds like another example normalizing the behavior of adults abusing children sexually.

        As someone who grew up at the same time, I can say that in most of America children were taught by adults that sexual attention and actions, including grooming, were never considered acceptable.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by HLMom View Post


          Some day there will be a case where a false accusation is made. Suppose there is a witness whose testimony could prove that the accusation is false, but this witness would "rather not get involved." Under SafeSport rules, without subpoena power there is no way to make them come in to testify to what they know (or even to make them testify by phone, or provide a written statement.) The accused would be out of luck, unless he could persuade them to come forward out of the goodness of their heart.
          I think this is a strawman argument. There is absolutely no evidence that the claim of one individual, unsubstantiated by physical evidence of any sort, has led to any SafeSport sanctions. Conversely, we have ample evidence that SafeSport will not take action based on the claims of one "victim" when it's nothing more than the kind of "he said-she said" situation that you're describing.
          "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
          that's even remotely true."

          Homer Simpson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

            except no one is banned or sanctioned based on a single uncorroborated allegation.

            This is a red herring.
            Well, I posted something very similar and it was "Unapproved." So, I'll just quote ladyj79 and say, "yeah, what she said."
            "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
            that's even remotely true."

            Homer Simpson

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
              But all sex between minors below the statutory limit and adults is rape.

              And I was alive in the 90s. I definitely don't think it was culturally acceptable or accepted to call 12 year olds sexy.
              It has been even in the 2ks, which is why we have pole dancing kits for tweens as a thing, and Brittany Spears dancing as a schoolgirl in whatever the heck that awful album was.

              Again I submit this for your viewing...torture - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/br...de-child-photo

              She was 10 years old. Most of the supermodels of the 90s were recruited between the ages of 13 and 16. And they were most definitely called sexy in the media and society. They were dressed provocatively, called sexy, and made to wear makeup that made them look much older to others.

              The Protect act, making it a federal offense to possess porn of children under 18 wasn't put into law until 1992. In 23 states to this DAY it is not illegal to marry someone under 16 years of age.

              We should be fighting that fight too, 'cause that just isn't ok.

              Again, I'm not saying that we should be ok with anything just because it was accepted. This *should* give us pause to examine our own beliefs about what is accepted now, lest we be judged harshly in the future, and it should give us courage to say "hey, this isn't ok, even though everyone thinks it is"

              Comment


              • Back then, 50 years ago, there was a criminal charge that DID get prosecuted sometimes, it was "Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor."

                That charge was a large reason that underage people were considered "jail bait" (back then under-age was someone under the age of 21). It could be a rather wide-ranging law, sex, drugs, encouraging criminal behavior, exposing children to pornography, anything that could "encourage" an under-aged person to do any criminal acts.

                By the standard of THAT law, well GHM certainly seems to have contributed to the delinquency of minors. It was legally considered wrong back then to contribute to the delinquency of a minor.

                Of course, just like speeding laws, a lot of people did ignore that law back then, but if they had been caught by law enforcement they could end up in a world of trouble and have their reputations completely ruined.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KellyS View Post

                  I grew up as a teenager in the 90s and I definitely KNEW it was not okay for men to take an extra interest in minors. And the adults around me would never encourage it or think it was okay. In fact, we were specifically taught about this at home and in school as part of how to stay safe and how to identify "wrong" actions by adults. And it was not culturally acceptable to call a 12 year old "sexy" either.

                  My experiences were in California, Georgia, and Pennsylvania in the 80s and 90s, so I feel pretty confidant about the morals and values of this time period.

                  As others have said again and again, IT HAS NEVER BEEN OKAY to sexually groom, assault, abuse, or rape a minor.

                  I am not saying you did not experience what you describe, but in a discussion about sexual predators, in which they are being defended with the excuse that it was okay "back then," this part of the quoted post just sounds like another example normalizing the behavior of adults abusing children sexually.

                  As someone who grew up at the same time, I can say that in most of America children were taught by adults that sexual attention and actions, including grooming, were never considered acceptable.
                  You were lucky. I grew up in PA and had a far different experience. We definitely had zero training in school as part of any "how to stay safe". Maybe it's an early 90s vs late 90s thing. Or a rural school vs a city school, I don't know. But that was DEFINITELY not part of my curriculum - I would have remembered that to be sure.

                  I am NOT defending predators. NOT in the least!! I'm saying the COMPLETE opposite!!!

                  What I am saying is that we ought to look at things we think of as OK now, and think "hey, maybe these won't be OK later"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cnm161 View Post

                    I <3 this response.

                    The subreddit for Men's Rights activism is, indeed, a real horror story... but not for the reason rollingabout is suggesting.
                    Reddit is a cesspool now, FYI they also have subreddits for pedos, so take what you will from that garbage site.
                    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

                      RAPE is sexual abuse, but not all sexual abuse is rape.

                      We do not know that any of these people are guilty of rape, but we DO know that they are guilty of sexual abuse. THAT definition has changed.

                      Please read my other post, then maybe I will have made myself more clear. I just really don't even know what to say at this point.
                      Part of the problem is that it is not clear what point you are trying to make.

                      There has been no changes in what is considered sexual abuse. Just because it happened doesn't mean it was acceptable.

                      Both rape and sexual abuse are illegal, and neither have ever been socially acceptable or accepted.

                      It is pretty clear that, in the cases of Jimmy Williams, Ron Gage, and George Morris, they raped underage children.

                      I have been sitting back and reading along all this time, but I am flabbergasted by the handful of individuals here who are trying to pick apart the actions of these men and the investigation of Safe Sport.

                      It is very clear and very simple:

                      1. It has always been wrong and socially unacceptable/unaccepted to sexually interact in any way with a minor.

                      2. Safe Sport does not issue sanctions based on false accusations or without proper protocols.

                      Just because you (group, but particularly HLMom) are not aware of every single detail of the Safe Sport process does not mean there is something wrong with the process. And even though you feel entitled to know every detail, the protocols are in place to protect the victims rather than to make Joe Public happy.

                      We can't always have it all (and this is not a television crime drama)--in this case, I think the victims deserve their privacy and safety, especially after seeing the vindictiveness and brutality of the social media community.

                      Comment


                      • The reason why sexual abuse of minors went unreported "back in the day" is because it was hushed up by everyone, including victims families, because it was NOT considered normal or acceptable to molest children and young adolescents. the only thing i will grant you is victims were frequently blamed for their own abuse for "tempting" abusers.
                        But sexually assaulting children and young teens was really not even tacitly condoned. It was hidden because it was anathema.


                        eta most victims are abused by people they know and relatives. Incest is super super taboo and has been for millenia.
                        Let me apologize in advance.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                          Reddit is a cesspool now, FYI they also have subreddits for pedos, so take what you will from that garbage site.
                          reddit is just a microcosm of the whole internet.

                          I rather like some parts of it. The gardening sub and "what is this thing" are great. Lots of amazing stuff has happened there, pep talks from Arnold Schwarzenegger, secret santa from Bill Gates, people helping people, acts of kindness and pizza, etc. Shame that it gives a space for such disgusting stuff too, but the same can be said of any social media platform or forum space.
                          "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                          My CANTER blog.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by caffeinated View Post

                            reddit is just a microcosm of the whole internet.

                            I rather like some parts of it. The gardening sub and "what is this thing" are great. Lots of amazing stuff has happened there, pep talks from Arnold Schwarzenegger, secret santa from Bill Gates, people helping people, acts of kindness and pizza, etc. Shame that it gives a space for such disgusting stuff too, but the same can be said of any social media platform or forum space.
                            Not really though, because other platforms flat out ban and remove that stuff asap. Reddit used to be great, but after all those changes I just can't behind it. Especially with how much it supports incels and pedos. JMO tho.

                            I use FB groups for those gardening questions
                            Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                            Comment


                            • Zirgs You appear to be responding with noise reducer headphones on, similar to Crashing Boar and others. It's frustrating. I wish the anti SafeSport crowd would at least reply to the informed, pointed rebuttals of their positions.

                              Instead it seems you all have arrived with a set of preconceived beliefs and have chosen to block out and ignore any argument that weakens them. It's close minded, does nothing for your cause and becomes a real bore to read.

                              These SafeSport threads are full of gems regarding how it actually works, from people who are directly involved with it. Take the head phones off .. good grief.

                              OneGrayPony - The whole subject of acceptability of abuse during different eras ASIDE, I just want to say that I copy your message loud and clear that YOU ARE NOT SAYING IT WAS OKAY!
                              One touch of nature makes the whole world kin.
                              William Shakespeare

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by IdahoRider View Post
                                They most often DON'T start with coercion and shame. That doesn't come until much later. These pedophiles start grooming their victims by making them feel special. It is a fact that many (perhaps even most?) survivors of long term sexual abuse had families that were dysfunctional to varying degrees. That dysfunction opened the child up to responding to being made to feel special in a very particular way. The pedophile can smell the "right" conditions a mile away.

                                That is part of the grooming process. Pedophiles always have feelers out, probing and testing, evaluating. When a child's circumstances tick the boxes, the process becomes more targeted to that particular child. Is the family sufficiently distracted with divorce, illness, substance abuse, whatever? Is the child open to being singled out from their peers? Does the child fit the physical profile the pedophile wants?

                                Believe me, if a pedophile's MO was to drag a child into a dark room and molest them the first time they met? The outcomes would be different. The vast majority don't operate that way. They pick their victims carefully. They carefully construct and guide the situation until eventually they are able to frame the sexual contact as an extension of how important that child is, how loved and protected they are by the abuser.

                                The coercion and shaming doesn't start until the abuser starts to feel control of the situation slipping a little. And most often the "go to" method is shaming the victim. Nobody will believe you. You wanted me to touch you. You will get in trouble. Everyone will know you're a slut, know that you're a fag. You won't be special anymore. Pick your poison. And then they move on. The child has aged out of the pedophile's desired demographic. They get caught just enough for people to know that something "happened", but nobody wants to know what and they just want to bury it and walk away. Whatever. Things shift and another child is targeted and the grooming starts all over again.

                                Keep in mind that the pedophile has hidden in plain sight. Larry Nassar, "I am doing a medical procedure. Only I can fix your child". George Morris, "Your child has talent and I can make it happen for them". My step-father, "God has called me to help this broken family and the daughter needs extra support and caring".

                                These people, for the most part, aren't hiding their victims in the basement, behind a secret door. They marry our drug addled mothers. They dangle health and continued competition in front of children and parents. They insinuate that with extra "access" and training the Olympics is within reach.

                                These monsters are right here, living in plain sight. They aren't driving up in an unfamiliar car and asking us if we want to help them find their lost puppy. They are the team doctor. They are the t-ball coach. They teach Sunday school. They are a best friend's parent. They are a legend in the sport we love. They eat dinner at our own kitchen table and wait until everyone is asleep. They are a fixture in our lives. They don't have to lure us. They are already in our lives.

                                They minimize. They minimize. Every. Single. Day. They say their medical treatment is misunderstood. They say they were only trying to build on a talented rider. They say they were only checking to make sure a child was covered on a cold night.

                                They groom us. They twist the world to make it look a certain way. Up is down and down is up. And they scare the shit out of us for the rest of our lives.

                                And even though we are scared, and ashamed, we step forward and speak our truth. Some of us can say it and never waver again from those words being heard out loud. Some of us need to speak it and then take it back because the fear in our own minds is so overwhelming it might be another thirty years before we can speak the truth again. Some of us never say anything. Some of us use drugs and drink. Some of us become so anxiety ridden that we push ourselves to never, ever make a mistake about anything. Some of us turn around and abuse others. None of that changes the fact that we were hurt in an irreparable way when we were young and vulnerable.

                                "F" George Morris. At this point the allegations have been investigated. He doesn't deserve to automatically be given the benefit of even more doubt. I am going to stand with the people who were strong enough to insist that they be heard. At last. Those are my people. They are my tribe.
                                Sheilah
                                A freaking MEN. I have been trying to find a way to explain this process to people and could not figure out the right words. THANK YOU. And due to the grooming in plain sight, when the victim says something it is very hard for someone to believe them. The predator usually has a strong backing of friends or followers who will work hard to embarrass or demoralize the victim. This is why it is SO HARD to prove sexual assault, especially if there isn't DNA evidence. I mastered in Forensic Science and let me tell you that the amount of victims who do not take legal action against their abusers is staggering. Plus, most who do, don't win. And people wonder why victims don't speak out. Or why suddenly so many people are saying #metoo. They finally have a voice, even if they cannot do much about it.

                                #METOO
                                "People who think their brains are not worth protecting are probably right!"
                                - quoted by Martha Drum

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by KellyS View Post

                                  Part of the problem is that it is not clear what point you are trying to make.

                                  There has been no changes in what is considered sexual abuse. Just because it happened doesn't mean it was acceptable.

                                  Both rape and sexual abuse are illegal, and neither have ever been socially acceptable or accepted.

                                  It is pretty clear that, in the cases of Jimmy Williams, Ron Gage, and George Morris, they raped underage children.

                                  I have been sitting back and reading along all this time, but I am flabbergasted by the handful of individuals here who are trying to pick apart the actions of these men and the investigation of Safe Sport.

                                  It is very clear and very simple:

                                  1. It has always been wrong and socially unacceptable/unaccepted to sexually interact in any way with a minor.
                                  Number one is PATENTLY false from history. Absolutely false.

                                  To pretend otherwise is to miss our culpability as a society.

                                  I am NOT wanting any details from safe sport. I think safe sport is great. I think we should EXPAND the jurisdiction of safe sport.

                                  I'm NOT defending GM, JW, or RG.

                                  There have very definitely been changes in what is considered culturally accepted behavior between adults and minors. I am NOT saying that it was right. I am saying that back in those days, people didn't report because it was culturally accepted. Keeping something a secret does not equal not being culturally accepted. Things that were culturally accepted but some felt were wrong were gossiped and whispered about, not reported. That's the meaning of culturally accepted - they were swallowed up and whispered about, not prosecuted.

                                  I'm saying that even now, there may be things that we accept that will be reportable later. And we should think about that. We should think about the things we snicker about or gossip about in inappropriate relationships or power imbalances.

                                  Let me say this one more time for the people in the back - we are ALL culpable. That these people did these things is bad and wrong, I am not debating that, but we are NOT free as a society to just say "it's their fault". We should do some self-examination and recognize our roles in it.

                                  And yes, we should blame them and ban them from the sport, but we should also blame our culture for what it is, and work hard to change it.

                                  Comment


                                  • From the NPR Believed podcast:
                                    https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510326/believed

                                    SMITH: Detective Munford leaves the room to grab her business card. Larry sits alone in the interview room for several long, silent minutes. He sighs, puts his head down and sits completely still as he waits.

                                    WELLS: While MSU Police investigate, the Indianapolis Star publishes its first story about Larry Nassar - Rachael's story. It comes out September, 12, 2016. It is a bombshell.

                                    SMITH: But remember; to so many people, Larry is still the good guy.

                                    UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: Oh, my goodness, I'm shocked. I actually went to Great Lakes Gymnastics, and he took really good care of me. That's really sad.

                                    UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: I can't believe this, Larry. I'm so sorry to hear this. You know, whatever I can do to help, let me know, you know?

                                    UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: I'm sure that Dr. Nassar is totally overwhelmed with what - how this is going to affect him.

                                    UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #4: The f***? You know, no way would Larry Nassar ever do this. There's no way.

                                    SMITH: For a lot of other people, though, Rachael's story sparks an unsettling wave of realization. Hundreds of Larry's patients and their parents begin to see for the very first time Larry might not be the guy they thought they knew. That's next time on BELIEVED.
                                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by ohmyheck View Post
                                      Zirgs
                                      OneGrayPony - The whole subject of acceptability of abuse during different eras ASIDE, I just want to say that I copy your message loud and clear that YOU ARE NOT SAYING IT WAS OKAY!

                                      Same, I might disagree with some cultural historiography, but have no doubt Onegraypony is not excusing or defending abusers.

                                      Let me apologize in advance.

                                      Comment


                                      • Ugh...I cried so much for those girls in that podcast.
                                        Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                                          Could you show me the rule you are talking about? Are you saying there always must be more than one accuser before SafeSport will impose a sanction? Are you saying there always must be a corroborating witness before a sanction will be imposed? I didn't see any of that in the rules.
                                          I think she means the oft repeated idea that all one has to do is pick up the phone and make an accusation and someone is banned.
                                          *****
                                          You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X