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George Morris on the SS list

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  • I really REALLY hope the people who defend the likes of GM RG and these other losers don't have kids. They are the EXACT type of parents a predator wants to have in their barn, not like they would ever believe their child!

    A few years ago I started to really research pizzagate because of my interest in child protection. Everyone thought I was nuts, telling them about Epstein and his dirty secrets, Hollywood and their secrets (they were out years ago, just no one believed). I just kept telling everyone, the time will come and you won't think I am so crazy.

    Anyways, I believe in time, the truth will come out so far that it will absolutely be shoved down the non believers throats until they choke on it.

    Until then, keep on fighting the good fight.
    Boss Mare Eventing Blog

    Comment


    • The I Stand With George folks are really, really reaching. This was a post this morning:

      "Another little gem from the USEF Safe Sport Policy. Section IV, A.1. (page 6): "It is a violation of this Policy for a Participant to be or have been subject to any disposition or resolution of a criminal proceeding....." and is so broadly written that it includes juvenile actions. The age of the conviction is not relevant, except perhaps in considering sanctions. This means if you ever protested the Viet Nam War and got a misdemeanor conviction (and people did this as a point of pride!) or if you ever were cited for public intoxication at a frat party, or ever had a shoplifting cite as a juvenile - yes, you can be sanctioned by USEF. Maybe even banned for life. Even true criminals have the right to have their records expunged under some circumstances. Not with Safe Sport."

      I mean, she had to deliberately cut off the rule, and the listing of prohibited conduct right above this portion, in order to pretend what she says is true. I mean, if the Safe Sport rules are so horrid, why would you have to edit them so they say something they don't?
      Last edited by Midge; Aug. 14, 2019, 10:35 AM.
      *****
      You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

      Comment


      • I honestly can't believe anyone in a licensed field of work would question Safesport and how it works. Maybe because they are comparing it to some state licensing boards which can on occasion be made up of somewhat unqualified persons?

        But the rhetoric doesn't sound that way at all. Instead it is all about the power to ban people from their livelihood and how unconstitutional that is- all licensing can do that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

          And let’s teach the girls not to rape boys, get pregnant to trap them or make false allegations when they don’t get their way. Women are sexual predators too.

          go to www.reddit.com/r/MensRights to read real horror stories on what women can do to men.
          Directing us to Reddit and a thread filled with incels likely....gtfoh
          Boss Mare Eventing Blog

          Comment


          • Originally posted by alicen View Post
            http://thehorseofdelawarevalley.com/...-to-the-editor , Sara Cavanaugh:

            "It was not to judge George Morris innocent or guilty but to point out that George Morris, along with other people banned for life, found out only AFTER they were banned that they had been banned"

            Wait.... GM and others should have found out that they were banned BEFORE they were banned?
            He did though- there's not way he had those mailing lists and that statement crafted within an hour of discovering he was banned. He knew he was being investigated, he knows who made the claims. Has done for at least a year i would think based on SS workflow.

            Comment


            • Thinking through to the future of our sport, how can we help protect the children? History has exposed ours as a culture of gossip and pathetically little action, so how do we protect kids outside of USEF shows? Those kids riding on the local circuit whose well-meaning but clueless parents don't know that the trainer was banned by SS (and either don't know or think to look at the list)?

              Another question to ponder, are local circuit managers in any way responsible for allowing known sexual predators at their shows? Could someone sue them in the future? Obviously if the person is criminally found guilty, that could make it easier, but is there a reciprocity in place for, say, a Virginia trainer who was found guilty in another state?

              Short of posting a sign of current SS banned offenders at the show office (not possible because of Constitutional rights and potentially a libel suit), I can't think of how those local kids could be protected from the likes of local hero predators?

              Would licensing trainers be a start?

              Is there a solution?
              "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

                But the people that SafeSport bans are not all on sexual offender registries. The ban is beyond predators. Go look for yourself how many on that list fall under any state or federal registry. It is a quick internet search. You can even call SafeSport and ask them yourself if all banned individulas have full legal convictions or have some settled in court in nocontest because the trial is too expensive, or are some banned based only on the statement in a report.

                Again anyone can report OneGrayPony for a sex offense. SafeSport will ban you based on their interpretation of the criminal offense and how much they believe the information in the report. Imagine you are innocent, and the law exhonerates any false claims against you, but you are still banned - how does that not bother you?

                This is not about posting legal findings and holding those that are legally guilty accountable.
                It's not against the law to show horses on stacked NSAIDs, but I'm pretty sure there is a public list of people "doing time" for that "crime" on the Internet. It's a shorter "sentence" than most SafeSport terms, but it's a less severe transgression.

                SafeSport is NOT criminal law. Constitutional rights are not impacted by a SafeSport sanction. You can live where you want. You can come and go as you please. You can vote. You can protest the government. You can practice your religion. You can speak your mind. You can own a gun.

                You can't train horses or coach riders in/at USEF sanctioned competitions or events, or those sanctioned by organizations with a reciprocal agreement, such as the FEI or Equestrian Canada.

                A disbarred judge cannot hold court. A struck off doctor cannot practice medicine. A banned coach cannot coach. Reality bites.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by specifiedcupcake View Post

                  He did though- there's not way he had those mailing lists and that statement crafted within an hour of discovering he was banned. He knew he was being investigated, he knows who made the claims. Has done for at least a year i would think based on SS workflow.
                  He was threatening people and their families. Yeah, definitely he didn't know anything, complete shock
                  Let me apologize in advance.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mvp View Post

                    Yanno, that's how I know who's who and where the people in my life stand.

                    I think it's time to let my FB friends know that they can stand with George or they can stand with me, but not both. They can GTFO of my life if they want. I don't see the pay-off to remaining friends with folks who wish to stand in the way of cleaning up the most horrific and dark back bedroom of our sport and industry.

                    I'm not interested in reputations or statuses of any of the BNTs who have gotten caught with their pants down, so to speak. What does disturb me about the ISWG crowd is the ill-informed conviction that SafeSport isn't worth trusting or defending. While it's fine to critique and improve, I don't see any of these folks 1. offering a better solution; and 2. bothering to educate themselves enough to possibly devise a better process. And that's the height of a form of callousness and elitism that's peculiar to modern Americans. I think these folks have been wrapped in easy privilege for so long (including the scapegoating of victims of sex crimes or taking an uncritical, non-factual view of history), that they can't find a reason to think carefully or empathetically about the problem of reining in the predators amidst our ranks.
                    I purged my FB friends after the response to RG. I didn’t do it right away but gave time for the dust to settle and to give people the ability to get educated and process his suicide.

                    Comment


                    • I mean, except a banned coach can coach.
                      Let me apologize in advance.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chisamba View Post

                        To be honest, I dont think I could attend a Robert Dover clinic or any of the big name slime balls sucking up to GM after this.
                        Yes, this whole situation makes me glad I switched to foxhunting. I still take the odd lesson with an eventing trainer that I've known for decades but I vastly prefer riding in a discipline that is not competitive. As a teen and young adult, I saw enough of that world to know it wasn't for me.
                        Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
                        EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Midge View Post
                          The I Stand With George folks are really, really reaching. This was a post this morning:

                          "Another little gem from the USEF Safe Sport Policy. Section IV, A.1. (page 6): "It is a violation of this Policy for a Participant to be or have been subject to any disposition or resolution of a criminal proceeding....." and is so broadly written that it includes juvenile actions. The age of the conviction is not relevant, except perhaps in considering sanctions. This means if you ever protested the Viet Nam War and got a misdemeanor conviction (and people did this as a point of pride!) or if you ever were cited for public intoxication at a frat party, or ever had a shoplifting cite as a juvenile - yes, you can be sanctioned by USEF. Maybe even banned for life. Even true criminals have the right to have their records expunged under some circumstances. Not with Safe Sport."

                          I mean, she had to deliberately cut off the rule, and the listing of prohibited conduct right above this portion, in order to pretend what she says is true. I mean, if the Safe Sport rules are so horrid, why would you have to edit them so they say something they don't?
                          Pardon me for quoting my own post, but it appears the person who posted this is a lawyer. Not BN. Why do I think there is an ulterior motive?
                          *****
                          You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by IPEsq View Post

                            I have no idea what it’s trying to achieve.
                            I guess what I meant to ask is if they are successful in making SS a civil and/or criminal trial instead of just an investigation and a finding with it either being dropped or sanctioned aren't they at risk of these people ending up being jailed and/or huge monetary judgements against them? And I am sure it wouldn't end there, if someone were found guilty of molestation of minors or whatever then there is no way any organization would let that person continue to participate, no? I think they need to be careful what they wish for sort of thing.
                            McDowell Racing Stables

                            Home Away From Home

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Laurierace View Post

                              I guess what I meant to ask is if they are successful in making SS a civil and/or criminal trial instead of just an investigation and a finding with it either being dropped or sanctioned aren't they at risk of these people ending up being jailed and/or huge monetary judgements against them? And I am sure it wouldn't end there, if someone were found guilty of molestation of minors or whatever then there is no way any organization would let that person continue to participate, no? I think they need to be careful what they wish for sort of thing.
                              It won't happen, but in my dream world, the victims of George Morris sue him in a civil proceeding, get awarded a huge settlement, and set up a fund for victims.

                              I said the same of Jimmy Williams, but there is so so much demonstrable proof that George Morris ruined lives, even ended them. That's just, I just can't understand defending that.
                              Let me apologize in advance.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

                                OneGrayPony Not true. In the judicial sustem, once someone has served their time, they live amongst us. The SafeSport program both extends the boundaries of the legal system by extending punishment duration, and more concerning, they ban people that the legal system found innocent or exonerated, because SafeSport has the power to ban based on their interpretation of risk, which goes beyond our legal system. That is what the Safe Sport law allows, and why there is legitimate concern for all of us that it violates our Constitution. Unlike Federal, State and local laws for which we can vote in representatives, SafeSport creates their codes without our representation.

                                So OneGrayPony if someone reports you, and you are found exhonerated in the legal system, SafeSport can still ban you.
                                Once again. For the millionth time. SS is not part of the legal system. It does not fall under Article III of the Constitution. It is an organization, not a court of law. It has its own rules (not laws). As an organization, it can ban you if you break its rules. Because it is not a court of law, you will not go to jail or be fined if it finds that you have broken its rules. You will pay no civil awards or penalties.You will not have to register as a sex offender if it finds that you have broken its rules about messing with children. You will not lose your right to vote. You will still be able to ride a horse. You will still be able to teach lessons. But you will not have the sanction of SS. Because it found that you have broken its rules.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by DarkBayUnicorn View Post
                                  SafeSport is NOT criminal law. Constitutional rights are not impacted by a SafeSport sanction. You can live where you want. You can come and go as you please. You can vote. You can protest the government. You can practice your religion. You can speak your mind. You can own a gun.
                                  You are not sent to jail. You are not fined. You loose your USEF membership. Why, oh why, do people persist in conflating the criminal judicial system with Safe Sport?

                                  Sorry, prairie wind, I was writing as you and others posted.

                                  Comment


                                  • Isn't the whole point of Safe Sport to keep complaints confidential and out of the criminal justice system until Safe Sport reaches a point where they have good cause to believe that the criminal abuse of a minor did occur? It gives people who have complaints a safe place to make them without having to get involved with police and prosecutors from the getgo. And there is a benefit for the criminal justice system (already overwhelmed one hears) in that they will receive only complaints that have already been through an investigatory process that has found the complaints credible.

                                    Certainly in the early days of Safe Sport, they are taking actions against people who may not be criminally liable on some complaints due to the passage of time, but as they clean up the old abusers, the process will become about more recent ones. In the case of George Morris, we have not information at all on whether he continued to abuse minors throughout his 10,000 and counting sex partners.

                                    If he has managed to avoid HIV for so long, he should give his blood to science so they can find out why.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

                                      Aug. 14, 2019, 07:33 AM
                                      About George Morris on the SS list Mia Sorella
                                      I am sorry to hear about your abuse. I have a MSW degree and have been the first to tell a young adult and child that their abuse was not their fault. I have had some vomit on me, as they expel the horrors of their abuse. There is no excuse to abuse.

                                      Society has oppressed these conversations, thus children were not empowered to speak. It is the silence that has allowed abuse to fester and not allow closure.

                                      It is good that we speak openly and constructively.

                                      However, to dictate to me whom I am allowed to work with and select for my children is just as abusive.

                                      In healthcare several decades ago maternal and child death rates at birth were very high. Rather than fine hospitals and dictate solutions, hospitals were required to publically post their Birth Vitals and Statistics. As parents were empowered to choose where to deliver their children, hospitals responded to fix problems. The medical specialty of OBGYN, Prenatal Care and NICU spawned from the posting of performance.

                                      Tranaparency and education are constructive mechanisms to make lasting change.

                                      Dictating and stripping parents of their rights to choose harms all of us and violates our freedoms.
                                      As others have pointed out, nobody is stopping you from sending your child to a known predator for lessons.
                                      All SS is doing is telling you that that person cannot be present at any competition or facility governed by the NGB.
                                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Laurierace View Post

                                        I guess what I meant to ask is if they are successful in making SS a civil and/or criminal trial instead of just an investigation and a finding with it either being dropped or sanctioned aren't they at risk of these people ending up being jailed and/or huge monetary judgements against them? And I am sure it wouldn't end there, if someone were found guilty of molestation of minors or whatever then there is no way any organization would let that person continue to participate, no? I think they need to be careful what they wish for sort of thing.
                                        Not necessarily. Courts do not have to be bound by the decisions of an administrative body unless the statute says so. For example, I work in trademark law. The trademark office has a trial and appeal board that follows the rules of civil procedure. It doesn’t adjudicate infringement but deals with whether or not someone can protect a trademark or enforce a registration or prior right. If parties in a dispute there then take their issue to federal court, even if it involves the validity of a trademark (say, in defending a counterclaim) that the board has already ruled on, the federal court does and can decide that issue anew.

                                        So, if SS wanted to more closely align with criminal procedures (which is how I read the petition, not civil), the arbitrator’s decision would likely not replace a criminal case, meaning a separate criminal case would have to be tried. Reciprocity is only working one way—if there is a court case first decided against the accused, then SS can issue a criminal disposition ban. I don’t think there’s any possibility the law would change to make reciprocity happen the other way. And the reason for that is actually the due process clause. You can’t have an arbitration procedure that would conform to criminal case standards (ie no jury trial in arbitration).

                                        Comment


                                        • “SS makes its own code”....what?

                                          https://www.usa.gov/how-laws-are-made

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