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George Morris on the SS list

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  • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

    And that is absolutely the deeply ingrained mind set we are fighting against right now.

    ugh.
    What?

    I am agreeing with you. I am not saying it is a defense - but not recognizing that it IS a shift ignores history. Why is it not ok to say that it is a change for people? That’s ridiculous.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

      What?

      I am agreeing with you. I am not saying it is a defense - but not recognizing that it IS a shift ignores history. Why is it not ok to say that it is a change for people? That’s ridiculous.
      dude, I'm agreeing with you.

      when I said that, I meant that norm that blames victims. See the fool right below.
      Let me apologize in advance.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

        Or that we acknowledge predatory nature in men, and place the onus on victims rather than victimizers.

        As it goes, instead of teaching girls how not to get raped, let's teach boys (and men) how not to rape.
        And let’s teach the girls not to rape boys, get pregnant to trap them or make false allegations when they don’t get their way. Women are sexual predators too.

        go to www.reddit.com/r/MensRights to read real horror stories on what women can do to men.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

          OneGrayPony Not true. In the judicial sustem, once someone has served their time, they live amongst us. The SafeSport program both extends the boundaries of the legal system by extending punishment duration, and more concerning, they ban people that the legal system found innocent or exonerated, because SafeSport has the power to ban based on their interpretation of risk, which goes beyond our legal system. That is what the Safe Sport law allows, and why there is legitimate concern for all of us that it violates our Constitution. Unlike Federal, State and local laws for which we can vote in representatives, SafeSport creates their codes without our representation.

          So OneGrayPony if someone reports you, and you are found exhonerated in the legal system, SafeSport can still ban you.
          As far as I can remember, the Constitution does not address private clubs and organizations. This whole Constitution thing is a red herring.

          In addition, even within our judicial system, there are two levels of proof - criminal and civil. Civil requires much less proof, not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Just a slight preponderance of the evidence will work there.

          GM has performed enough in front of cameras and written enough in his own words to get him banned by SS standards. Have you actually read the article under which he is banned? Forget molesting children; he has violated a couple of other provisions. The man is filth.

          But by all means defend your choice to send your children to filth so that they can get a ribbon. I wouldn't want to be your child though.
          Last edited by prairiewind2; Aug. 14, 2019, 11:10 AM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

            And let’s teach the girls not to rape boys, get pregnant to trap them or make false allegations when they don’t get their way. Women are sexual predators too.
            ok, so you're a bad person, we've established that. Just go back to where supporting pedophiles is normalized.
            Let me apologize in advance.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

              dude, I'm agreeing with you.

              when I said that, I meant that norm that blames victims. See the fool right below.
              Sorry for the misunderstanding - well I vehemently agree with you too

              Comment


              • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

                Sorry for the misunderstanding - well I vehemently agree with you too


                Let me apologize in advance.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post
                  Zirgs but that’s why the sexual predator has no protection from being listed in a neighborhood watch list and sexual offender registry. They don’t really get to just “come back” and live among us.
                  But the people that SafeSport bans are not all on sexual offender registries. The ban is beyond predators. Go look for yourself how many on that list fall under any state or federal registry. It is a quick internet search. You can even call SafeSport and ask them yourself if all banned individulas have full legal convictions or have some settled in court in nocontest because the trial is too expensive, or are some banned based only on the statement in a report.

                  Again anyone can report OneGrayPony for a sex offense. SafeSport will ban you based on their interpretation of the criminal offense and how much they believe the information in the report. Imagine you are innocent, and the law exhonerates any false claims against you, but you are still banned - how does that not bother you?

                  This is not about posting legal findings and holding those that are legally guilty accountable.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

                    I’m a bit confused by your post, Bluey, but I do agree. France is now changing their laws on consent for just this reason https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8052766.html

                    Keep in mind, I am ALSO not saying that committing these crimes despite a cultural norm about them is ok. It’s not ok. It was never ok. But it was accepted, tacitly. It’s a very good thing that we are changing it because maybe other things have a shot at changing too.

                    For instance, young girls are pressured to grow up and be more responsible than young boys of the same age. I believe this is directly connected to our cultural beliefs that young girls are sexually mature “earlier” than boys. Again, not right, but definitely in our culture.
                    My point was that abuse is clearly abuse and at all times many knew not to go there, even if others around them did.
                    Some cultures made some abuse tolerable in a way that those that didn't agree could not say much except not to participate, but even then, abuse was clearly abuse and was never right in the eyes of any but abusers.

                    At least that is the way I see it, or everyone would have been abusing and abused, which they were not.

                    Comment


                    • New York just opened filing, one year, for any sex abuse case beyond the statute of limitations
                      _\\]
                      -- * > hoopoe
                      Procrastinate NOW
                      Introverted Since 1957

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

                        Aug. 14, 2019, 07:33 AM
                        About George Morris on the SS list Mia Sorella
                        I am sorry to hear about your abuse. I have a MSW degree and have been the first to tell a young adult and child that their abuse was not their fault. I have had some vomit on me, as they expel the horrors of their abuse. There is no excuse to abuse.

                        So you should be extra sympathetic and aware. You have an onus to be among the MOST educated on the subject, and that includes knowing and understanding Safe Sport policies and procedures, yes? You understand that those given lifetime bans have been found guilty via preponderance of evidence after a thorough investigation by highly trained professionals, and have had the right to respond, to question and to present evidence in their defense, correct?


                        Society has oppressed these conversations, thus children were not empowered to speak. It is the silence that has allowed abuse to fester and not allow closure.

                        It is good that we speak openly and constructively.

                        Agreed.

                        However, to dictate to me whom I am allowed to work with and select for my children is just as abusive.

                        In what way? What irretrievable and irrevocable harm have you suffered? What night terrors and PTSD are you living with due to said lack of choice? Please share with us, in detail, EXACTLY what abuse you have suffered! This is one heck of a statement from someone with a Masters in Social Work. Please share this harrowing tale of abuse by lack of choice!

                        In healthcare several decades ago maternal and child death rates at birth were very high. Rather than fine hospitals and dictate solutions, hospitals were required to publically post their Birth Vitals and Statistics. As parents were empowered to choose where to deliver their children, hospitals responded to fix problems. The medical specialty of OBGYN, Prenatal Care and NICU spawned from the posting of performance.

                        In sports over several decades, sexual assault, sexual harassment, physical assault, emotional abuse and bullying rates were very high. Rather than fine training centers and dictate solutions, it left up to the NGBs, where it was swept under the rug and allowed to continue, ruining hundreds, thousands of lives.

                        It was proven that almost all sports bodies were completely incapable of self-policing, and Safe Sport was enacted by Congress to essentially require NGBs to publicly post their Abuse Rates “Vitals and Statistics” in the form of Safe Sport infractions and bans. Parents are now empowered to choose where to enroll their children in sport. In time, specialty practices may be spawned from the posting of this performance record.

                        Tranaparency and education are constructive mechanisms to make lasting change.

                        And sadly lacking in most conversations surrounding what Safe Sport is, and how it works.

                        Dictating and stripping parents of their rights to choose harms all of us and violates our freedoms.
                        You, as a parent, have EVERY RIGHT to enroll your child in a sports program with a known sexual predator. You can do that. No one is stopping you. Go ahead. Just don’t expect to be allowed to compete with the rule abiding folks.

                        Going back to your medical analogy: Why, as a parent or parent-to-be, would one CHOOSE to go to a hospital with a high infant mortality rate? A responsible adult would CHOOSE a better hospital in order to reduce risk to mother and child, right?

                        In sport, you also have a RESPONSIBILITY to your child, to provide them with a healthy, positive learning experience that fosters life skills and self-esteem. You—and we as the greater sports community—also have a responsibility to protect them from grievous harm. Why, as a parent, would you knowingly and willingly increase risk of harm to your child exponentially by purposely exposing them to a known sexual predator? To put a known sexual predator in a position of trust and in a position of power over your child?

                        You use an example from the medical field. I’m sure you are aware that doctors found to have sexually assaulted minors are typically struck off, yes? Would you CHOOSE to send your child to a pediatrician that has been struck off by the medical board for Sexual Misconduct – Involving Minor? If so, please share your thinking.

                        You can CHOOSE to use a sexual predator as your child’s coach. The rest of us can CHOOSE block sexual predators and the people who associate with and support them from our sport.

                        We CHOOSE to work toward a safe playing field.

                        ETA: Of course, we equestrians can CHOOSE not to comply with SafeSport, with the full understanding that we also then choose to forego Olympic participation.


                        Last edited by DarkBayUnicorn; Aug. 14, 2019, 11:05 AM. Reason: Forgot a key point.

                        Comment


                        • http://thehorseofdelawarevalley.com/...-to-the-editor , Sara Cavanaugh:

                          "It was not to judge George Morris innocent or guilty but to point out that George Morris, along with other people banned for life, found out only AFTER they were banned that they had been banned"

                          Wait.... GM and others should have found out that they were banned BEFORE they were banned?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                            My point was that abuse is clearly abuse and at all times many knew not to go there, even if others around them did.
                            Some cultures made some abuse tolerable in a way that those that didn't agree could not say much except not to participate, but even then, abuse was clearly abuse and was never right in the eyes of any but abusers.

                            At least that is the way I see it, or everyone would have been abusing and abused, which they were not.
                            Ah, I think I get you...maybe.

                            There have always been those among us who are more progressive in our definition of protection of innocents, and differing personal mores when it comes to what one would and wouldn’t do. I do think it’s a bit of a stretch to say “everyone” as though cultural mores (or law even) were the only thing keeping people from abuse. The stats are 1 in 6 even now, so I don’t think current laws and mores are keeping people who would commit bad behavior from doing so. But that’s more philosophical on the inability of culture and law to really prevent poor behavior.

                            That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Culture changes slowly, and hopefully these actions will reduce the incidences by informing *everyone* of what to watch out for and help to raise kids with attitudes that some of these behaviors are unthinkable.

                            </anthropologist geek>

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bip View Post

                              It is definitely 1984 if banning pederasts and child molesters from sport is considered infringement on choice.

                              Normally I love irony, but I have little kids so this isn’t really funny to me.
                              Thank you for calling them pederasts. That's what they are.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by OneGrayPony View Post

                                Ah, I think I get you...maybe.

                                There have always been those among us who are more progressive in our definition of protection of innocents, and differing personal mores when it comes to what one would and wouldn’t do. I do think it’s a bit of a stretch to say “everyone” as though cultural mores (or law even) were the only thing keeping people from abuse. The stats are 1 in 6 even now, so I don’t think current laws and mores are keeping people who would commit bad behavior from doing so. But that’s more philosophical on the inability of culture and law to really prevent poor behavior.

                                That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Culture changes slowly, and hopefully these actions will reduce the incidences by informing *everyone* of what to watch out for and help to raise kids with attitudes that some of these behaviors are unthinkable.

                                </anthropologist geek>
                                I know, second time around was not more clear, sorry.

                                I think that everyone knows right from wrong.

                                When some choose to do wrong, they do wrong.
                                I don't believe they don't know any better, cultural mores or not.
                                When others don't go there, when abusers have to hide to abuse, when they have to "groom" victims?

                                I won't buy that, common to a culture or not, at any time abuse is or was acceptable because some did.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by lesson junkie View Post

                                  He has been taking advantage of our sport and love of horses for years. Good riddance to him-our sport can do without. If we make the barn a safe place, the horses will take care of the rest.
                                  This is how to think of it, if you ask me... GHM has been taking advantage of our ambition, as riders or as competitors, with his hideous, abusive nature.
                                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by rollingabout View Post

                                    go to www.reddit.com/r/MensRights to read real horror stories on what women can do to men.



                                    Again, as Oprah said, you just have to wait for some people/ideologies to die off.

                                    Calling them out is so so important.


                                    rollingabout, suggest you go spread your wisdom on some incel pages.
                                    Let me apologize in advance.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Zirgs View Post

                                      However, to dictate to me whom I am allowed to work with and select for my children is just as abusive.
                                      You must be furious about the sex offender list then, which often prevents people from living or working near schools or with children or in other sensitive situations.

                                      I mean, this is kind of what the law does all the time. You're only just now noticing? I'm honestly confused by your alleged argument.

                                      And I can appreciate that you might be annoyed, but to call it "abusive" makes me think you don't really know what that word means. I am glad for you, I suppose, that you've never suffered real deprivation, to find this to be an apex of your suffering as a parent.
                                      If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by hoopoe View Post
                                        New York just opened filing, one year, for any sex abuse case beyond the statute of limitations
                                        Wow, this area of law is really the gift that keeps on giving in terms of intellectual puzzles for lawyers! As soon as I heard about this one-year "revival" of expired claims, I wondered if there are any legal challenges to such a maneuver. For those who are curious, here's an article that says federal courts have deemed it allowable, but state courts have split roughly in half.

                                        https://static1.squarespace.com/stat..._SOL_Const.pdf

                                        Comment


                                        • Zirgs,

                                          But the people that SafeSport bans are not all on sexual offender registries. The ban is beyond predators. Go look for yourself how many on that list fall under any state or federal registry. It is a quick internet search. You can even call SafeSport and ask them yourself if all banned individulas have full legal convictions or have some settled in court in nocontest because the trial is too expensive, or are some banned based only on the statement in a report.

                                          Again anyone can report OneGrayPony for a sex offense. SafeSport will ban you based on their interpretation of the criminal offense and how much they believe the information in the report. Imagine you are innocent, and the law exhonerates any false claims against you, but you are still banned - how does that not bother you?

                                          This is not about posting legal findings and holding those that are legally guilty accountable.
                                          I'm not sure I understand your point here, perhaps because you're conflating criminal, civil and Safe Sport sanctions.

                                          Are you saying if multiple people make a complaint to Safe Sport, and their complaints are found credible after investigation, but they choose not to pursue criminal charges, because of statute of limitations, lack of willlingness of the prosecuting attorneys or a host of other reasons, you don't think the abuser should be banned?

                                          That's your standard? That you have to get a criminal conviction in court in order to be sanctioned by the governing body of a sport?
                                          The plural of anecdote is not data.

                                          Comment

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