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DD Crushed by pony sale gone bad!

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  • #81
    And we really don’t know what was said to whom or when with regards to that. She said, she said. There is another side. Maybe BS but maybe not.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

    Comment


    • #82
      Ok. But in her original post, she states that in "less than 24 hours, the pony was on a trailer to another state." If it had been, say, a week? That would lend credence to the theory that the prospective buyers called and said, "hey, we had a change of heart and want the pony after all." But less than 24 hours? No. Something here reeks worse than the Fulton Fish Market on a 100 degree day with the AC out.

      OP hasn't given any idea how much money was involved. But if you haven't shopped pony hunters lately , it could be more $ than my first condo cost me back in 2000. Way out of small claims court.

      Comment


      • #83
        The OP in another post stated that she talked to the buyers and they said they were always interested.

        Comment


        • #84
          Originally posted by Impractical Horsewoman View Post

          Very gently, though, OP, I do have to say that the promise that the pony would stay in the barn so your child could continue to ride and see the pony and would only be leased to the very best people sounds awfully pie-in-the-sky. It sounds like the trainer was taking advantage of your desire to emotionally cushion the shock to your daughter selling a beloved pony. There's no way what the trainer said could be true--even if this buyer wasn't there and waiting, if after six months someone offered a large sum of money to purchase the pony, or lease the pony off-property, surely your trainer's fiancee would have accepted it?
          Right. This is the reason to focus on the breach of fiduciary duty and fraud with respect to the sale to the new owners--not the promise to keep the pony in the barn. I don't think the promise to keep the pony in the barn was ever enforceable, because it is too non-specific. How long did the trainer need to keep the pony in the barn? For 6 months? A year? Its lifetime? What if someone offered the trainer a huge sum for the pony 6 months down the road? What if the trainer couldn't afford to keep the pony? The promise was just too vague and open-ended to be legally enforceable.

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by findeight View Post
            We also might be assuming some things about pricing that aren’t correct, assuming trainer made a fat profit might not be what happened. Kind of muddies it up.

            OP need not get specific either, especially if she wants to persue any action. No details online is best. But she needs to anticipate this might be trainers defense. A coincidence she made nothing off of.
            “Fat” profit is not relevant. Breach of duty is all that matters. If there is any financial harm, that could itself be proof of the wrong, depending on the state (see the Florida examples linked above). Of course if there is no financial harm then it might not be worth it for OP to pursue, but that is a separate question from whether trainer breached a duty owed to her client.

            That said, it’s extremely coincidental that pony went from being offered a useful home in trainer’s program (for cheap) to sold outside of the barn in very short order.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by vxf111 View Post


              In some cases the award is specific performance, not money damages (i.e. give the pony back) but not in the kinds of cases you're mostly mentioning, which largely sound in tort (the products liability cases). The remedy for fraud could be voiding the contract in which case it would mean getting the pony back. Maybe. It depends.

              BoFD is a tort, likely damages would not be injunctive but some form of money damages. This is state specific and we don't know what law applies to the OP's case.
              Would the OP really want the pony back? IMHO, no court is going to issue an order that the trainer must keep the pony in the barn at her own expense for the forseeable future and let the daughter visit/ride it. So if the pony comes back to the OP, the OP is in a bit of a fix: now she has a pony she admits she wanted to sell, with no ready buyer, no barn to keep it in, and no trainer to sell it for her.

              Comment


              • #87
                Correct. Obviously the pony was for sale for a reason. OP needs to be compensated for her damages from the trainer/agent, and then move on with purchasing whatever she was going to get for her DD, broken heart and all.
                COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

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                • #88
                  Assuming we have all the facts, it sounds like the OP and her daughter were ambivalent about the sale of what sounds like the child's first pony, and the trainer chose to exploit that ambivalence, motherly tenderness, and naivete for financial gain. I think a heart-to-heart with the daughter is necessary about accepting the fact that when ponies are sold, the relationship you have with them isn't going to be the same.

                  If the pony was returned, I doubt that finding a new barn to keep it at and a new sales agent would be an issue (since it sounds like a highly desirable pony), but there is no way that a relationship of the kind that was "sold" to the OP could be realistically maintained (i.e., where the child can see the pony all of the time and occasionally ride the pony when she likes). Of course I understand first ponies mean a great deal to kids--one of my old trainers uses her child's first pony for that reason in beginner lessons, just to pay for the pony's keep. But if this pony is going to be sold, the daughter needs to be prepared for what that entails.
                  Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Impractical Horsewoman View Post
                    Assuming we have all the facts, it sounds like the OP and her daughter were ambivalent about the sale of what sounds like the child's first pony, and the trainer chose to exploit that ambivalence, motherly tenderness, and naivete for financial gain. I think a heart-to-heart with the daughter is necessary about accepting the fact that when ponies are sold, the relationship you have with them isn't going to be the same.

                    If the pony was returned, I doubt that finding a new barn to keep it at and a new sales agent would be an issue (since it sounds like a highly desirable pony), but there is no way that a relationship of the kind that was "sold" to the OP could be realistically maintained (i.e., where the child can see the pony all of the time and occasionally ride the pony when she likes). Of course I understand first ponies mean a great deal to kids--one of my old trainers uses her child's first pony for that reason in beginner lessons, just to pay for the pony's keep. But if this pony is going to be sold, the daughter needs to be prepared for what that entails.
                    My short stirrup pony belonged to a family where the youngest child was in their early 20's!

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by Wanderosa View Post

                      My short stirrup pony belonged to a family where the youngest child was in their early 20's!
                      Yes, it's lovely when families can find a way to make it work, even as companion animals. Ponies live a long time
                      Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by Impractical Horsewoman View Post

                        Yes, it's lovely when families can find a way to make it work, even as companion animals. Ponies live a long time
                        One of their kids took a hard fall at a show and the little mare stood over her and bared her teeth trying to protect the child until the EMTs came. I was too young to remember trying her, but my mom tells me that the family came out to watch me ride to make sure that I would treat her well.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by Wanderosa View Post

                          One of their kids took a hard fall at a show and the little mare stood over her and bared her teeth trying to protect the child until the EMTs came. I was too young to remember trying her, but my mom tells me that the family came out to watch me ride to make sure that I would treat her well.
                          Ha! That's a true pony mare. Many of them are more stereotypically "mare" (in good and bad ways) than horses. I adore ponies. There are many downsides to being 5'1, but the upside is that I can still ride ponies (and do).
                          Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            Originally posted by HLMom View Post

                            Would the OP really want the pony back? IMHO, no court is going to issue an order that the trainer must keep the pony in the barn at her own expense for the forseeable future and let the daughter visit/ride it. So if the pony comes back to the OP, the OP is in a bit of a fix: now she has a pony she admits she wanted to sell, with no ready buyer, no barn to keep it in, and no trainer to sell it for her.
                            I dunno why she wants it back but per her first few posts on this thread, it seems she does.
                            ~Veronica
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

                              I dunno why she wants it back but per her first few posts on this thread, it seems she does.
                              If it was me, I would worry about the quality of the new home as I had no control over it. Maybe it was their intention to vet any potential buyer. I've had sellers ask me for vet references, etc. and actually check them. I've done the same. It doesn't always work no matter how thorough you are - i've had a driving horse who ended up in a scrape despite my due diligence - but better than nothing.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Originally posted by Wanderosa View Post

                                If it was me, I would worry about the quality of the new home as I had no control over it. Maybe it was their intention to vet any potential buyer. I've had sellers ask me for vet references, etc. and actually check them. I've done the same. It doesn't always work no matter how thorough you are - i've had a driving horse who ended up in a scrape despite my due diligence - but better than nothing.
                                Doesn’t seem like it from her posts but who knows. She seemed ok with the buyers and selling to them initially until learning she was seemingly getting screwed by her trainer, understandably
                                ~Veronica
                                "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                                http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

                                  Doesn’t seem like it from her posts but who knows. She seemed ok with the buyers and selling to them initially until learning she was seemingly getting screwed by her trainer, understandably
                                  Yes, it seems from the situation that the OP was using an agent to sell and presumably vet the purchaser (which certainly isn't atypical at show barns). Unless, because of the trainer's actions she now no longer trusts the trainer to ensure the pony went to a good home, although that doesn't seem to be a concern I saw articulated in the post (she just seemed upset the pony was being sent to another state).
                                  Check out my latest novel, Pride, Prejudice, and Personal Statements!

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

                                    I dunno why she wants it back but per her first few posts on this thread, it seems she does.
                                    My reading of this thread was that the primary anger was really over the fraud involved in the sale/resale, but that OP was playing up the upset child to make it seem more awful.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      OP, any updates on this situation?
                                      ***
                                      The hardest to learn was the least complicated.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        OP needs to PM VXF111 for referrals in their area. I've appreciated the info that VXF111 has given as they have highlighted areas that many may not consider or think of when selling (or buying) a horse/pony. Certainly that fiduciary responsibility comes whether the person is a seller or if a client asks a trainer to help them purchase.

                                        Comment


                                        • I am thinking that the trainer made the sale of the pony much more sudden and upsetting for the child than if the sale had followed a more traditional course. In a more normal sale OP would have had the opportunity to tell her child Pony has sold to a new little girl lets go over to the farm and say goodbye to Pony, give Pony lots of treats, cry in Pony's mane etc... It sounds like the way things played out the trainer never gave the child an opportunity to say goodbye and gave the child the false hope that she would see the pony again later in the week. Even as an adult that would be hard for me.
                                          Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

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