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6571 Vermont Hill Rd. Wales NY. Krystal Dern-53
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I would like to keep my trainer but...

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  • I would like to keep my trainer but...

    I recently bought a young horse. My trainer is very talented and gets along well with her, but is quite overextended (rides 16 horses a day). My horse should be in full training but, (I think) frequently gets skipped. (You can tell when your horse has or has not been ridden). Trainer likes the horse, but just doesn't have the time. I have been told I have a prickly "blunt" personality. I very would like to keep the horse in training, but since it isn't happening, what is the best way to approach the fact that trainer is taking money without riding the horse. Being factual would likely rub the trainer the wrong way, and I would like her to keep riding.

  • #2
    The best way to approach the fact is probably to move to another trainer at another barn.

    Honestly I don't see how anyone can ride 16 horses even in a 12 hour day. I expect you aren't the only one getting shafted.

    That said, full time training isn't necessarily 7 days a week. Four days is probably adequate.

    Comment


    • #3
      Common problem at some barns. Tack up, do some warm up, watch the training. Trust is good, control can be better.

      Comment


      • #4
        I had a situation like this. If you don't trust that the horse is being ridden, you need to go elsewhere. You can't realistically be there to supervise your trainer. With a young horse, this is really going to slow down your progress.

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        • #5
          16 horses a day plus - not a realistic scenario for getting a young horse trained.

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          • #6
            I agree with the others, time to move - assuming the horse is actually being skipped. Why do you want to keep a trainer that you think is taking your money without providing the service?

            The only way I could see a trainer riding 16 horses a day is if they have several grooms that tack up, warm up, cool down, and untack the horse, so the trainer is literally hopping on for 30 mins of hard work each.
            Last edited by mmeqcenter; Jun. 13, 2019, 04:54 PM.
            "The best of any breed is the thoroughbred horse..." - GHM

            www.mmeqcenter.com

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            • #7
              Unfortunately, you move.

              I had my nice gelding with a trainer who had 35-40 horses in training. (Not sure if all were part or full.) Trainer is a WONDERFUL person, WONDERFUL trainer, and his barn is top top top notch.

              However, my horse was a “tier two” horse - he didn’t breed it, it wasn’t a futurity horse, he knew I wasn’t going to sell it, and I had one horse with him instead of other clients with 5+. As such, my horse got ridden a lot by his assistant. The first one turned into a lovely friend and my full time trainer down the road... but she quit at one point and my horse was left with his new assistant, who - quite frankly - sucked.

              I pulled my horse because I understand why my horse was second tier and while I learned a ton from that trainer; I wasn’t okay with my horse being the teacher for his inexperienced assistant.

              In a perfect world, we all get exactly what we pay for and no shortcuts are taken. In the real world, however, these people need to make money so they need to keep their barn full and they don’t always have the pick of the litter in finding good help willing to work for equine industry wages.

              I have absolutely no hard feelings towards this trainer and if I ever had a great futurity horse or one that WAS going up for sale, I’d use him in a heartbeat. But finding a program that “works” includes having a discussion on what types of horses the barn needs. I’m not a person who buys and sells a new mount every/every other year. My horse isn’t green eligible. Cr la vie.
              Veni vidi vici. With a paint pony, nonetheless.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mmeqcenter View Post

                The only way I could see a trainer riding 16 horses a day is if they have several grooms that tack up, warm up, cool down, and untack the horse, so the trainer is literally hopping on for 30 mins of hard work each.
                I was going to say this as well. *If* the trainer has grooms *and* full training is more like 4 days a week instead of 6 *and* the trainer has minimal interruptions in the form of daily lessons/barn mgmt, it’s possible that the training happens. I’d also be leery of trying to “tell” if a youngster has been ridden on any given day.

                I assume that the above is not true, though. In which case, you should leave. There is very little chance you could be sure that anything changes, and why would you want to continue to deal with someone you’re pretty sure is cheating you? It’s one thing for the horse to get 15-min rides or ridden by an assistant, another thing entirely to pay for training and the horse to sit untouched.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's a lot of questions that I'd have for your before providing an answer. This is a really interesting question, though, and I'm sure a lot of people (including myself) struggle with this or very similar situations! Great trainers are a catch 22...they are wonderful but because they are wonderful, they are overextended!

                  Do you participate in your horse's training at all? Do they only offer different training options, or only "full training"? If they may be flexible, could you propose an option where your horse gets 3 rides per week with this trainer and then you or another trainer work with the horse the off days? If you really want this trainer to help bring along your horse, it might actually help the trainer knowing that you guys have arranged a lighter and more concrete schedule. Options for off days could include ground work (yourself if you know what you're doing, or a local natural horsemanship practitioner), long lining/lunging, hacking around the property, give a free ride to an experienced capable student or working professional who doesn't have time to own a horse but is looking for horse time...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    16 horses a day? Even with grooms handing them off, that’s a solid 8 hours of getting on and off horses with NO breaks at 30 mins per horse minimum.....nope, sorry, I don’t for a second believe your trainer is riding 16 per day! Either she’s also shafting other people, or she’s getting her grooms to ride over half of the horses.....hmmm that’s also shafting other people! Go somewhere else!
                    I have cancer but cancer doesnt have me!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why would you want to keep any service provider who is not providing a service for which you are paying? Paying for full training and not getting full training has happened to me at more than one barn.

                      The first time I let it continue for far too long, having been too timid to speak up or make a move. I have always regretted it and promised i'd never let it happen again.

                      The second time, I nipped it in the bud IMMEDIATELY upon suspecting what was going on. I left within 3 months of moving to that barn. A behavioral issue (that more than likely came with the newly purchased horse) was not being addressed on the pro ride days and the the horse became essentially unrideable for me in an unsupervised setting, i.e. I couldn't even hack my own horse without being in a lesson b/c he was so intimidating. Within two weeks after making a switch to a different barn, where I was riding my own horse five to six days a week with a couple of pro rides sprinkled in when necessary, I quickly realized I made the right choice to leave. Nearly six months later, issues are at a minimum and no longer intimidating. B/C a program is being followed and regular rides are occurring.

                      Never, ever endorse cheating behavior by a pro. Taking your money and not providing the service is cheating. Actually it's stealing.

                      http://www.poochpaddock.com/

                      http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Po...4588358?ref=mf

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        yeeeeaaaahhhh I don't think anyone is riding 16 horses a day and full training does not necessarily mean the horse is ridden every day. Honestly sounds like you mmmmmmaaaaaayyyy be a bit "prickly" as described and a tad demanding. Not that anyone should pay for services not rendered, but if the horse is worked 4-5 days a week that is full training..part time is 1-2 days a week. Really you do not mention a valid reason you want to keep trainer, many people can get along well with the average horse. So politely give your 30 days notice or whatever contract requires and move on before the situation comes to a head and one of you blows up. OK I am going to have a cookie now

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                        • #13
                          Many full training programs are 4-6 days/week. What was the agreement here?

                          How many sessions per week do you watch? Are they productive?

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thank you all for the responses.

                            Let me quickly explain why I like this trainer so much. She is both great at training young horses and great at teaching people. In my over 50 years, I have found that I usually have to pick one or the other. So I want to stay. Also she let me know up front that she already had 16 horses in her program and was very busy. Some are in full training, some one day a week and some sale horses.
                            We have made progress, and I can ride my horse now some of the time. When the baby is having a flaky day, we lunge instead. (The horse nearly always goes beautifully for the trainer.)
                            I think I will just cut the training to partial and hope for the best.

                            I like this quote above from Evilc 123 "Great trainers are a catch 22...they are wonderful but because they are wonderful, they are overextended!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mooonie View Post
                              Also she let me know up front that she already had 16 horses in her program and was very busy. Some are in full training, some one day a week and some sale horses.

                              I think I will just cut the training to partial and hope for the best.
                              If she was "up front" with you about having limited time, she should not have accepted money from you for full training if she could not actually provide it. Being an honest trainer would have been "Hey, I have 16 going right now, I really only have time to put him in at 1-2x/week so let's do partial training at this $xxx (lower) rate until my schedule frees up."

                              But it's your prerogative if you want to stay with her. I hope the partial training goes better!
                              "The best of any breed is the thoroughbred horse..." - GHM

                              www.mmeqcenter.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by mooonie View Post
                                Thank you all for the responses.

                                Let me quickly explain why I like this trainer so much. She is both great at training young horses and great at teaching people. In my over 50 years, I have found that I usually have to pick one or the other. So I want to stay. Also she let me know up front that she already had 16 horses in her program and was very busy. Some are in full training, some one day a week and some sale horses.
                                We have made progress, and I can ride my horse now some of the time. When the baby is having a flaky day, we lunge instead. (The horse nearly always goes beautifully for the trainer.)
                                I think I will just cut the training to partial and hope for the best.

                                I like this quote above from Evilc 123 "Great trainers are a catch 22...they are wonderful but because they are wonderful, they are overextended!"
                                Ok, having 16 horses in training is not the same as riding 16 horses a day.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                  Ok, having 16 horses in training is not the same as riding 16 horses a day.
                                  This.....you need to get things clarified! How many training rides per week are you actually paying for? She may have 16 horses in training, but not every horse may require the same amount of rides per week..therefore she’s probably NOT riding 16 per day! I’d say, 5 to 6 per day is perfectly reasonable on a 5 day work week at 8 hours per day (for a full training barn with no lessons....if she’s also teaching then I’d say, there’ll be less time again for riding....my trainer for example rides 2 to 3 per day as she also teaches!), that means each will get about 2 rides per week. Also, find out how long these rides are....are they 30 mins or 60 mins? Do NOT pay for what you are not getting!
                                  I have cancer but cancer doesnt have me!

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    I don't mind being disrespectful when people are not working hard, but this trainer works her tail off! She does ride at least 10 horses a day and also teaches lessons. To me, this seems not sustainable. We are supposed to have full training which is 4-5 rides/lessons per week, but she is away at a show now for 2 weeks, and we haven't had rides/lessons. This is what confuses/upsets me.
                                    I have made up my mind what I am going to do, and am happy to let the thread die.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      There's no way you can "make" this trainer have more time for your horse. There's no diplomatic approach to explain why you as a customer are dissatisfied with paying for full training when the trainer is away for two weeks or simply not able to physically ride and train all the horses in her care. You can either choose to be satisfied with what your trainer has to offer at the current price or try to work out a partial training rate that reflects what is actually happening. I think the second route would be difficult because your trainer isn't going to want to accept less $$ from you when at the end of the month your horse is still getting the same attention the "full" training horses are getting.

                                      I know you like this trainer, but practical issues like a trainer not having adequate time for a student or a horse are very reasonable reasons to move on. If I were in your shoes I would likely be looking for other options. A less talented but more consistent trainer would probably result in more success where a young horse is concerned.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by mooonie View Post
                                        I don't mind being disrespectful when people are not working hard, but this trainer works her tail off! She does ride at least 10 horses a day and also teaches lessons. To me, this seems not sustainable. We are supposed to have full training which is 4-5 rides/lessons per week, but she is away at a show now for 2 weeks, and we haven't had rides/lessons. This is what confuses/upsets me.
                                        I have made up my mind what I am going to do, and am happy to let the thread die.
                                        so what did you decide? It's not exactly clear from your posts.

                                        Comment

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