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Rob Gage

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  • Originally posted by OwnTooMany View Post

    I understand your frustration. I expect that I am equally frustrated. Many guilty-as-hell people are let off by our system. But innocent people are also convicted; for example, see the Innocence Project: https://www.innocenceproject.org/all-cases/#

    And then there is the problem of prosecutorial discretion and plea bargaining with many accused people basically bullied into pleading guilty to lesser charges because of the fear of being wrongly convicted of more serious ones. An extremely interesting episode of This American Life on this topic can be found here:
    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/595...pool/act-one-0

    While I think that many aspects of our justice system are seriously broken, there are also many protections in place. The investigators (the police) are independent of the prosecutors, the prosecutors are independent of the judges, in most trials the fact finder is a jury and is independent of the judges. All of these people are trained professionals (except the juries). There is discovery, the right to compel testimony from witnesses, all witnesses are subject to contempt of court if they lie, and the system is open so that the press and others can examine how it works. It is also subject to reform through the democratic process as many judges, prosecutors, etc. are elected. Oh, and I forgot, there is an elaborate appeals process.

    Given that you do not trust the authorities of the justice system (and I agree with you) even with all of the protections in place, I truly do not understand why you would expect others to trust SafeSport. SafeSport is also an authority. It is a parallel justice system that can dole out significant punishment (though not the same as incarceration) and basically publishes a sex offender list. But it is opaque, has weak due process, lacks discovery, can't compel witnesses, and has a very low standard of evidence (preponderance). None of the players in the system answers to a democratic process. SafeSport is also overloaded (and underfunded) and thus is exercising prosecutorial discretion (and I expect in a biased way). It is operating in a politically charged environment where many appear to have essentially a blood lust for getting the accused, taking accusation as proof. If our justice system is seriously broken, there is no reason to expect that similar forces will not affect SafeSport.

    But apparently your distrust of the justice system together with your trust in SafeSport gives you a position of virtue. My distrust in the justice system together with my distrust of SafeSport makes me paranoid.

    But talk about frustration. We are almost one month since the suicide of Rob Gage. We still have no reliable facts about what he was found to have done that allows any real assessment of the situation. (I am not ignoring the facts that you and I have agree to previously which I believe still represents the current state of what is actually known publicly.)
    I can’t believe after all this time you are still making the same false claims about Safe Sport. Enough already.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by bingbingbing View Post
      On Hilary Ridland’s public Facebook post, Bonnie Conway has left this comment...

      ”You are a loser and you murdered Rob Gage- if you suffered so much over the past 30+ years why didn't you say something and why did u continue to associate with Rob and hire him to judge your shows? I hope you rot in hell”
      Unbelievable. At least Bonnie Conway has revealed what kind of person she is: a bully.
      Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
      EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bogie View Post

        Unbelievable. At least Bonnie Conway has revealed what kind of person she is: a bully.
        I reported her to USEF and got a response from Teresa Roper. They are trying to tie her to USEF or an affiliate organization. I looked her up on Horseshowtime, a show website used by some of the shows out here, both recognized and not, and found results from a county show and a TB show six years ago. I searched the current membership roster of the county organization (GSDHJA) to no avail.

        Teresa Roper suggested that I report her to Facebook.
        The Evil Chem Prof

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Peggy View Post

          I reported her to USEF and got a response from Teresa Roper. They are trying to tie her to USEF or an affiliate organization. I looked her up on Horseshowtime, a show website used by some of the shows out here, both recognized and not, and found results from a county show and a TB show six years ago. I searched the current membership roster of the county organization (GSDHJA) to no avail.

          Teresa Roper suggested that I report her to Facebook.
          I reported the post to Facebook last night.

          Comment


          • I think that Hillary Ridland responded in a much more effective way than either FB or USEF could. Instead of lowering herself to a FB style spitting match, she responded to Ms Conway and mildly and politely offered to speak with her privately and in person! A calm, polite, generous response on FB. Shocking.
            If HR is strong enough to make her report to SafeSport, and strong enough to publicly out herself as a claimant, as she demonstrably is, I doubt that she will be much bothered by the likes of Ms Conway.
            If Ms Conway thinks she is defending or honoring RG, several posters pointed out that her post does the opposite by attempting to further victimize his victim.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tackpud View Post

              As this pertains to bullying and harassment, reporting should be done directly to USEF. However, I do not know if she is a current member or not. If not, I don’t know that anything can be done.
              a search of USEF members doesn't result in any "Bonnie Conway"... It doesn't mean she isn't there under another name, but probably not. I suspect fb is the only option (as toothless as that option is).

              But hey, at least a few more people on this planet have seen the true measure of her character. I sincerely hope that whatever the future holds for her, that at some point she is reminded that many people have now "met" the real Bonnie Conway.

              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

              Comment


              • Would someone take a look at Hillary's FB thread? Kristin Hardin has posted there and in part says "Rob...confessed his mistakes to me in writing. But I didn't kill him either, he wrote it down I sent it in...we all make choices."

                Does this mean that the some of the evidence against Rob was his own?

                If so, can we stop blaming the survivors now?
                The plural of anecdote is not data.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                  Would someone take a look at Hillary's FB thread? Kristin Hardin has posted there and in part says "Rob...confessed his mistakes to me in writing. But I didn't kill him either, he wrote it down I sent it in...we all make choices."

                  Does this mean that the some of the evidence against Rob was his own?

                  If so, can we stop blaming the survivors now?
                  I saw that, too. The hard core are never, ever going to believe the women.
                  *****
                  You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                  Comment


                  • There's a Bonnie Conway that has a USDF number. Does not appear to be an active member.

                    Comment


                    • Weeks ago, one of the officials (Safe Sport, USEF; I’m not sure which), issued one of those carefully worded releases in an attempt to respond to the outrage without disclosing details.
                      The release stated that there was no dispute about the facts of the incidents. Instead the primary issue facing SafeSport was the extent to which the date of the incidents should be factored in in terms of the severity of the sanction.
                      The mob keeps saying it’s just “he said/she said” and “just allegations”, but that appears to be willful misdirection. It looks to me that Gage, to his credit, may have admitted what he did.
                      SafeSport does not have a statute of limitations wrt sexual misconduct with minors. Some people think it should, wish it did, but it doesn’t.
                      You’re absolutely right that the shaming of reporter/victims is even more illogical and misplaced if it is the case that there was zero dispute, even from Gage himself, that it happened. Safe Sport apparently didn’t need to adjudicate the validity of the claims, but just had to decide it would abide by the “no statute of limitations” provision.
                      Perhaps it will become more clear to the mob that the attempt to keep the details confidential was providing protection to the accused as well as the accusers. If they had not been screaming for all the details, bashing Safe Sport as a witch hunt, and shaming victims, they could have kept, in their own minds, their image of RG as slightly flawed (in a relationship with a 17 year old, when he was 23, or 28 or 32) but a mostly innocent victim of a shift in the culture. Harder to maintain their illusions as the details come out. The details they demanded to know.

                      Comment


                      • Denali, Yankee was not claiming RG was a mostly innocent victim of a shift in culture! Not at all! Yankee is saying that is what Gage's defenders, (including OwnTooMany) want to believe and keep parroting in the face of evidence to the contrary.

                        The irony is that those defenders wanted details, and that the details they demanded may actually be more damning than exonerating.
                        The plural of anecdote is not data.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by marginall View Post
                          Meanwhile, it other equestrian pedophile news (from The Daily Beast): In April 2019, a new accuser came forward with claims that Jeffrey Epstein and his alleged madame, Ghislaine Maxwell, assaulted her at Wexner’s Ohio residence in the 1990s. Epstein, Maxwell and Wexner have not commented on these allegations. We can also assume Beezie and John have no comment.

                          It will be interesting to see what comes out now that Epstein is actually going to have to face real charges. You can bet no one publicly will be arguing in his defense on social media but I wouldn't be surprised if horse people start coming out of the woodwork about how lovely the Wexners are and how they were never molested by them.
                          I expect plenty of people will be arguing publicly in defense of Epstein. If you're rich enough and famous enough, there will always be people willing to lie for you, defend you in spite of mountains of evidence against you, and even do some of the dirty work for you.
                          "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu
                          Semantics

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                            Denali, Yankee was not claiming RG was a mostly innocent victim of a shift in culture! Not at all! Yankee is saying that is what Gage's defenders, (including OwnTooMany) want to believe and keep parroting in the face of evidence to the contrary.

                            The irony is that those defenders wanted details, and that the details they demanded may actually be more damning than exonerating.
                            My bad! Sorry YankeeDuchess

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                              Would someone take a look at Hillary's FB thread? Kristin Hardin has posted there and in part says "Rob...confessed his mistakes to me in writing. But I didn't kill him either, he wrote it down I sent it in...we all make choices."

                              Does this mean that the some of the evidence against Rob was his own?

                              If so, can we stop blaming the survivors now?
                              After reading FiSk123 's very informative posts on the evidence it takes to support a lifetime suspension that was NOT rooted in a criminal conviction, that isn't too surprising. It seems to come down to victim statement(s) plus either corroboration in the form of witnesses and/or the defendant's own words/texts/etc.

                              As to your last question, doubtful
                              Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

                              Comment


                              • YankeeDuchess your post was clarified to me and I apologize for misreading. Hence why I deleted it.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                                  Would someone take a look at Hillary's FB thread? Kristin Hardin has posted there and in part says "Rob...confessed his mistakes to me in writing. But I didn't kill him either, he wrote it down I sent it in...we all make choices."

                                  Does this mean that the some of the evidence against Rob was his own?

                                  If so, can we stop blaming the survivors now?
                                  "We" are not blaming survivors. Those people who are blaming survivors are impervious to evidence or logic, so there is little point in asking them to change. They won't.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by YankeeDuchess View Post
                                    I think that Hillary Ridland responded in a much more effective way than either FB or USEF could. Instead of lowering herself to a FB style spitting match, she responded to Ms Conway and mildly and politely offered to speak with her privately and in person! A calm, polite, generous response on FB. Shocking.
                                    I have to say that I was floored by her response. The rest of us can aspire to show half as much grace under duress.

                                    Comment


                                    • [QUOTE=OwnTooMany

                                      Organizations like SafeSport tend to attract people committed to the cause. People "committed to the cause" often lose perspective (or never had any to begin with) even when the cause is a great cause (like preventing child abuse). They will believe any "fact" or any hearsay that supports their position. This has a name in psychology and related fields: confirmation bias. It is a natural human tendency. They will ignore information that does not align with their beliefs as it is also natural to avoid cognitive dissonance (another useful concept to understand from psychology). Unfortunately, such people often staff the organizations in universities that are called things like "The Office of Sexual Assault Prevention and Response." In many universities, sex assault hearings are kangaroo courts. The details of this have been coming out over the last few years.

                                      If you look at the totality of comments in this thread (now more than 70 pages), you clearly see people that do not really give a damn about a fair process that takes into account well established principles of justice or the context of the situation and they accept and repeat as fact things that are unreliable (like posts on the internet). Of course, there are people as extreme on the other side. They don't seem to care anything about what may have happened, just that they knew and liked the accused.







                                      [/QUOTE]

                                      This is just about the worst of your posts.... and that is saying something.



                                      Comment


                                      • Yep really something of confirmation bias when they expected under 100 reports and got over 800.

                                        By the above logic about bias shouldn't they be trying hard to have less sanctions?



                                        Comment


                                        • I don't even know what to say to some of these posters, so I will not even attempt to respond, but I did want to post to thank the ones who took the time to calmly respond to those who were questioning SafeSport, the process, the victims, the details of the events, and so on. You all did a great job and stayed much more civil than I could have. Thank you.
                                          Rhode Islands are red;
                                          North Hollands are blue.
                                          Sorry my thoroughbreds
                                          Stomped on your roo. Originally Posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' :

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