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Rob Gage

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  • Originally posted by HLMom View Post

    Pennywell, thank you for sharing this.

    In my mind, this raises a philosophical question. Before I pose the question, I should say I don't know Rob Gage, have no knowledge of what he may have done, and have no opinion of Safesport's actions in his case. I am against sexual conduct of any kind with minors. That shouldn't really need to be said, but I hope to avoid being deemed a closet pedophile merely for raising what I consider interesting and thought-provoking issues.

    With all that said, Pennywell's post eloquently raises the possibility whether people can grow and change, in effect becoming different people, over the decades. Many of us have seen men who were sexist jerks in their 20's become respectful and even feminist when they have daughters of their own. Indeed, my own hubby, while never a jerk, was pretty conservative when I met him and (two daughters later) is one of the biggest champions of women in STEM you'll ever meet!

    Should this kind of moral/personal development matter when it comes to punishing someone for conduct that occurred 20 or 30 years ago? Does Safesport recognize any concepts of reform or redemption? Can someone make reparations or restitution instead of simply being banned?

    I guess my questions are twofold: (1) should a person's moral growth and good character matter in assessing a penalty for long-ago conduct; and (2) does Safesport have a mechanism to take this into account?
    How old was Gage when these crimes of "20 or 30 years ago" were committed? Was there a long and sustained pattern?

    Look, if the guy molested kids while he was a grown adult, I don't think the "people can grow and change" argument applies.

    I also think that any college-age kid knows that rape is illegal, with no sort of mitigating factors (e.g. being drunk, the victim being drunk, living away from home for the first time).

    Do any of you all know anyone who didn't know that rape was illegal when they were ridiculously young?

    Not for nuthin', but it seems to me that girls are more deeply educated and educated much younger than boys about about avoiding sexual crimes. That's whack: 50% of the population knows how to avoid the possibility of a crime that the other 50% claims it doesn't know about?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat

    Comment


    • The whispers in this sport are still real. About 6 yrs ago at a circuit in Florida my then 10 yr old daughter was asked to hop on a pony for a very well known trainer. Later that night I mentioned it to a trainer friend of mine & his response was “ that trainer is known to like younger girls, be careful.”
      This winter my daughter, now 17, was asked to ride a horse for the same trainer that had her ride the pony yrs ago. Once again, we were warned about this trainers “attraction to young girls”. The warning this time was from our now current trainer. My daughter told me her trainer even warned her again a second time when I wasn’t around.
      Obviously, people know something, but no one has ever reported this bnt. This person goes to all the top shows & has a huge amount of horses. I won’t let my daughter ride with him again.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mvp View Post

        How old was Gage when these crimes of "20 or 30 years ago" were committed? Was there a long and sustained pattern?

        Look, if the guy molested kids while he was a grown adult, I don't think the "people can grow and change" argument applies.

        I also think that any college-age kid knows that rape is illegal, with no sort of mitigating factors (e.g. being drunk, the victim being drunk, living away from home for the first time).

        Do any of you all know anyone who didn't know that rape was illegal when they were ridiculously young?

        Not for nuthin', but it seems to me that girls are more deeply educated and educated much younger than boys about about avoiding sexual crimes. That's whack: 50% of the population knows how to avoid the possibility of a crime that the other 50% claims it doesn't know about?
        Rog Gage was 66 when he died. Thirty years ago he would have been 36. Forty years ago, 26. Even a 17 year old 40 years ago would have been 8-9 years younger. Again, the narrative that the whole story is that he had one 17 year old girlfriend when he was 18 is false. A succession of 17 year olds is still illegal and shows a pattern. Four victims came forward yesterday one of whom was a victim at 13.. There are others younger than 17.
        Last edited by oneequestrienne; Jun. 24, 2019, 09:43 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by oneequestrienne View Post

          Rog Gage was 66 when he died. Thirty years ago he would have been 36. Forty years ago, 26. Even a 17 year old 40 years ago would have been 8-9 years younger. Again, the narrative that the whole story is that he had one 17 year old girlfriend when he was 18 is false. A succession of 17 year olds is still illegal and shows a pattern. Four victims came forward yesterday one of whom was a victim at 13.. There are others.
          A 26 - 36 year old having any sort of sexual contact with a 13 year old is a serious issue. Having sexual contact with multiple 13 year olds is a pattern of behavior.

          I sincerely hope that RGs friends who claim he was reformed are correct. However, Safe Sport did the right thing. No one with this history should be coaching juniors.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by findeight View Post
            Why would the federal govt fund a sports monitoring group with no actual authority beyond the sport. Even if criminal conduct is proven, that would be turned over to regular law enforcement in the appropriate jurisdiction, who would be govt funded by whaterever jurisdiction the operate in,
            This so atypical of your normally informed comments? Safe Sport is Mandated. I’m genuinely flummoxed.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oneequestrienne View Post

              Rog Gage was 66 when he died. Thirty years ago he would have been 36. Forty years ago, 26. Even a 17 year old 40 years ago would have been 8-9 years younger. Again, the narrative that the whole story is that he had one 17 year old girlfriend when he was 18 is false. A succession of 17 year olds is still illegal and shows a pattern. Four victims came forward yesterday one of whom was a victim at 13.. There are others younger than 17.
              How did they come forward? What happened yesterday? No one seems to be talking about it, at least on Facebook.

              Comment


              • First and foremost, I need to put some great, big qualifiers in here for those who say they knew RG and defend him. I don’t know you, and have no clue as to the extent of your contact/relationship with RG. If anything rings a bell in your head/heart, then you need to deal with it yourself, either with a professional or internally, or with your family etc. Don’t air it here.

                But there are some aspects of things posted that are making me think thoughts that make me uncomfortable, and I need to point out something.

                For those of you who knew RG and defend him, ask yourself how well you knew him, what were the circumstances of your relationship, and how old were you at the time?

                There is an aspect of pedophilia that involves what is called “grooming”. This came out with all the information about the priests. The “grooming” that the priests did was (and is) essentially a seduction of the child, and in my book, a 17 year-old is still a child. Those laws are on the books for a reason. Here is some information about pedophile grooming:

                https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/mission/

                https://www.lancasterschools.org/sit...rooming%20.pdf

                https://www.openmindsfoundation.org/...hile-grooming/

                Please look at the above information, and if anything applies to you, please get some sort of help. If the predator never actually abused you, then count your blessings. It may be that the Safe Sport process saved you while you were being groomed, before you were abused. Many here are advising you to trust the findings of the Safe Sport investigators; I’m asking you to do that too.

                Ok, so Rob Gage committed suicide. It’s possible that, due to Safe Sport, he finally saw himself for what he really was, and didn’t like what he saw.

                “A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.”

                Comment


                • Originally posted by fair judy View Post

                  Safe Sport is Mandated.
                  Yes. And in the initial bills creating SafeSport that were proposed, both in the House and the Senate modification, significant funding (in the millions, I believe) was included to fund SafeSport. In subsequent budget wrangling in the House, the funding was stripped from the bill, creating yet another unfunded mandate.

                  SafeSport did then receive a ($2 million+?) grant from the Department of Justice, but the money can't be used for investigation & enforcement activities, just education.

                  Following Congressional prodding, the USOC did pledge to give SafeSport $6+ million this year, but USOC is working hard to get the Federal government to fund SafeSport (they did, after all, create it). I've seen a couple of media reports saying that USOC is pushing Congress to use the model of the US Doping Agency to support SafeSport. The US Doping Agency was similarly created, I believe, as an independent non-profit and it receives considerable funding from the government.

                  So, there is clear precedent for the government to provide funding for SafeSport and since they did create SafeSport, it kind of seems like funding it would be appropriate.

                  One thing this discussion has done is make me educate myself about SafeSport.

                  "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                  that's even remotely true."

                  Homer Simpson

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by AllOverFarm View Post
                    The whispers in this sport are still real. About 6 yrs ago at a circuit in Florida my then 10 yr old daughter was asked to hop on a pony for a very well known trainer. Later that night I mentioned it to a trainer friend of mine & his response was “ that trainer is known to like younger girls, be careful.”
                    This winter my daughter, now 17, was asked to ride a horse for the same trainer that had her ride the pony yrs ago. Once again, we were warned about this trainers “attraction to young girls”. The warning this time was from our now current trainer. My daughter told me her trainer even warned her again a second time when I wasn’t around.
                    Obviously, people know something, but no one has ever reported this bnt. This person goes to all the top shows & has a huge amount of horses. I won’t let my daughter ride with him again.
                    THIS is what's wrong in our sport. No doubt if someone came forward with an allegation against this trainer, the same defenders of RG would ardently defend him too.

                    As long as we as a sport tolerate and protect trainers who "like them young," - warning the girls instead of alerting authorities, we will support a culture that keeps victims quiet to protect inappropriate behavior.

                    That's not just sad, it's alarming.
                    Jennifer Baas
                    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mac123 View Post

                      THIS is what's wrong in our sport. No doubt if someone came forward with an allegation against this trainer, the same defenders of RG would ardently defend him too.

                      As long as we as a sport tolerate and protect trainers who "like them young," - warning the girls instead of alerting authorities, we will support a culture that keeps victims quiet to protect inappropriate behavior.

                      That's not just sad, it's alarming.
                      Agree with this. And the fact AOF can't even repeat the name, or receive the backlash and threats of libel, even though it is the known gossip of the circuit. Everyone else gets to carry the burden of these creeps. Why do we do this? NO ONE IS THAT GREAT A HORSEMAN. No one is worth it.
                      where you invest your love, you invest your life

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oneequestrienne View Post

                        Rog Gage was 66 when he died. Thirty years ago he would have been 36. Forty years ago, 26. Even a 17 year old 40 years ago would have been 8-9 years younger. Again, the narrative that the whole story is that he had one 17 year old girlfriend when he was 18 is false. A succession of 17 year olds is still illegal and shows a pattern. Four victims came forward yesterday one of whom was a victim at 13.. There are others younger than 17.
                        Wow, that is a very different set of facts than what has been presented previously. Are you a Safesport insider? It seems like you are privy to different facts than many people have heard.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AllOverFarm View Post
                          The whispers in this sport are still real. About 6 yrs ago at a circuit in Florida my then 10 yr old daughter was asked to hop on a pony for a very well known trainer. Later that night I mentioned it to a trainer friend of mine & his response was “ that trainer is known to like younger girls, be careful.”
                          This winter my daughter, now 17, was asked to ride a horse for the same trainer that had her ride the pony yrs ago. Once again, we were warned about this trainers “attraction to young girls”. The warning this time was from our now current trainer. My daughter told me her trainer even warned her again a second time when I wasn’t around.
                          Obviously, people know something, but no one has ever reported this bnt. This person goes to all the top shows & has a huge amount of horses. I won’t let my daughter ride with him again.
                          Did you ask your current trainer why he or she hasn’t reported this? And your trainer friend, who warns away a 10 year old (!!) because the trainer “likes younger girls” (and not “is a pedophile”)....have you questioned why they aren’t doing anything to stop it, besides whispering? Now that you know, how can you protect future victims and end this whispering?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by AllOverFarm View Post
                            The whispers in this sport are still real. About 6 yrs ago at a circuit in Florida my then 10 yr old daughter was asked to hop on a pony for a very well known trainer. Later that night I mentioned it to a trainer friend of mine & his response was “ that trainer is known to like younger girls, be careful.”
                            This winter my daughter, now 17, was asked to ride a horse for the same trainer that had her ride the pony yrs ago. Once again, we were warned about this trainers “attraction to young girls”. The warning this time was from our now current trainer. My daughter told me her trainer even warned her again a second time when I wasn’t around.
                            Obviously, people know something, but no one has ever reported this bnt. This person goes to all the top shows & has a huge amount of horses. I won’t let my daughter ride with him again.

                            Everyone knows? Are people letting their young daughters ride with him? Just because people were given a head's up- that make it ok? WHY are people riding with him still? Because he wins? Has nice horses? So- just because nothing has "stuck"- it is ok. Parents may be more vigilant but they are supporting this behavior?

                            I have a good riding kid who is 11. I can tell you- there is NO WAY IN HELL that I would roll the dice, no matter how vigilant I am, on letting my daughter ride with someone if I have been warned my multiple, reliable sources. I don't care how nice the pony or what opportunity. I don't want my daughter to be the object of some perverts dreams because what if I have to run to the bathroom some day? I am gobsmacked.

                            This is what is wrong. Parents, owners, clients putting up with behavior "for the win". We see it with KF, LG and now when our own kids are in jeopardy?? The sport I llove is really making me ill.
                            Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                            Comment


                            • 6 yrs ago, when my daughter hopped on the pony of the bnt, I found out after the fact. It was an under the breath kinda warning from another trainer. I was shocked, but not sure why I didn’t question anything. I guess, it was because I was new to the sport & the trainer in question giving me the info seemed kinda non-chalant about it.
                              I had forgotten about the accusations till this year when we were warned again.
                              & yes, this trainer has working students.

                              Comment


                              • For those who asked how someone goes from school to school, with out being reported, they call it "Passing the Trash". It's letting someone move on, giving them a recommendation that says nothing about their predatory behavior.

                                It's done because many (I was an education major in college, and kept up with a lot of the friends from then who went into teaching) times the parents don't want to make a report, because they are afraid of victim shaming from others, or because they don't want their child to have to testify. So the person is allowed to resign, and move on to another school system, and more vulnerable children. It's also done because the administrators don't want their school system, and their own record to be tarnished. CYA at it's finest.
                                You can't fix stupid-Ron White

                                Comment


                                • Its always interesting when people want to argue for the perp but refuse to use the actual facts of the case, but instead hold onto the wrong info circling around places like Facebook.

                                  Even at 17, if he was 66 and it was 38 years ago like the person posting here supporting RG says, then he was 28. What 28 year old man has a relationship with a 17year old. Come on, it's wrong, especially as someones coach and you know it.

                                  There were verified articles from the media explaining how there were more than one victim, and that the latest victim to come forward asked them to hold the appeal while they filed an investigation.

                                  Facts are what matter, not your alternate opinion of someone you thought you knew. Many people struggle to come to terms with realizing someone you know and cared about isn't who you think they are. Don't run around blindly defending someone when the fatcs are out there proving they are not who you thought they were.
                                  Boss Mare Eventing Blog

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by BLBGP View Post

                                    How did they come forward? What happened yesterday? No one seems to be talking about it, at least on Facebook.
                                    Hillary Ridland and 4 other victims had an informal question and answer following the Grand Prix at The Oaks on Saturday. I can only hope that putting real people instead of nameless “accusers” with the story helped shut down the social media mob.
                                    Last edited by oneequestrienne; Jun. 24, 2019, 12:04 PM. Reason: Edited to correct the fact that It was Hillary plus 4 other victims not 3.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by AllOverFarm View Post
                                      The whispers in this sport are still real. About 6 yrs ago at a circuit in Florida my then 10 yr old daughter was asked to hop on a pony for a very well known trainer. Later that night I mentioned it to a trainer friend of mine & his response was “ that trainer is known to like younger girls, be careful.”
                                      This winter my daughter, now 17, was asked to ride a horse for the same trainer that had her ride the pony yrs ago. Once again, we were warned about this trainers “attraction to young girls”. The warning this time was from our now current trainer. My daughter told me her trainer even warned her again a second time when I wasn’t around.
                                      Obviously, people know something, but no one has ever reported this bnt. This person goes to all the top shows & has a huge amount of horses. I won’t let my daughter ride with him again.
                                      I find it so frustrating how society puts the onus of avoiding sexual misconduct on the potential victim.

                                      "Stay away from so-and-so, you're his type." As if, you've been warned so it's now your fault if you don't listen. Clearly he's completely incapable of self control in this situation. I mean, you're his type, how could he possibly resist?

                                      Even worse, people often say it as a joke... or a compliment.

                                      Sorry for the sidebar, your story just made me want to get that off my chest. I'm glad your daughter won't be riding with him again.

                                      I struggle with whether or not situations like this should be reported. The SafeSport training suggests yes-- they say to report anything you hear, no matter if its of minimal magnitude or from a third party. But in real life, most of us struggle with reporting hearsay. I guess that's where the culture needs to change. As a country, we may need to set aside the mentality of "innocent until proven guilty" in situations where children may be in danger. Also, learn to not be so offended and sensitive if we ourselves are reported erroneously, and instead recognize that someone was just trying to keep children safe. The latter is pretty difficult, especially if you are being grossly inconvenienced and/or financially liable for defending yourself. This is an area where I think SafeSport & RGBs could improve upon. For example, I wonder if we could offer some sort of insurance against false claims, like how unions provide representation for members...
                                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Horsegirl's Mom View Post

                                        Wow, that is a very different set of facts than what has been presented previously. Are you a Safesport insider? It seems like you are privy to different facts than many people have heard.
                                        Wait a sec. I'm not sure you have this right and are inferring the right thing from oneequestrienne's post.

                                        I asked someone about their argument that "people can change" over time. And I think it's public knowledge or an established fact that everyone accepts-- both those defending Gage and those defending the action of SafeSport-- that the crimes were committed "30 or 40 years ago."

                                        And so I asked, "OK, but just how old was Gage when those crimes were committed: old enough to know better or a kid himself?" I knew Gage was around retirement age now but I didn't know how old-- 65? 80? I didn't know.

                                        And then oneequestrienne took Gage's age at death, some (again purportedly public) details about the victims and did some math, that's all.
                                        The armchair saddler
                                        Politically Pro-Cat

                                        Comment


                                        • Until someone with first hand knowledge reports what are the options? If victims continue to be shamed they won't come forward. It is a conundrum.

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