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Rob Gage

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  • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post
    By the way... just because I didn’t choose to label RG a pedophile, doesn’t mean I don’t suspect that this might have been the case. Bottom line though, people involved in this case have NOT chosen to step forward with their stories publicly in the same way that folks involved in the JW or Lipinski matters did. So it’s really hard as someone on the outside to support labeling RG a pedophile or a predator.



    I pray they don't come forward publicly. They will be beyond publicly lynched. People are accusing Anne Kursinski of killing RG. They are saying she deserved Eros dying.

    I have so many thoughts on this. But the bottom line is that we need to protect our children as best we can. A predator is sick, ill, and they will not stop.

    I really believe that there are so many people squirming waiting for that email. But still I also believe that there are many still engaging in this behavior. People joke about the trainer who goes out to the pool where all the juniors are in their bikinis, while the adults are inside....being adults, not predators.

    It is unfortunate that innocent members need to change their normal, healthy behavior to follow the Safe Sport rules. But IMO it is worth it. Being sexually abused has a lifetime effect on so many aspects of a person's life.

    I was not physically abused, but was involved with very inappropriate behavior by a priest. I made a recording of him saying very inappropriate things to me and my friends. It was presented to the Pastor of the church and NOTHING was done. This was the 80's. Eventually his predatory ways caught up with him. But not without many victims. The fact he got away with his behavior as long as he did is disgusting. He abused way more girls than reported, victims don't come forward because of the lack of support and vitriol against them.

    https://www.andersonadvocates.com/Pr...-R.-Logan.aspx
    Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty; inaccuracy, of dishonesty.
    Nathaniel Hawthorne

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
      Some people choose to look the other way because its more convenient. Its hard to find a good farrier she said. Some people do not care about the moral compass of others. So I can see how so many convicted child abusers can easily maintain a career.
      So last year I had messaged RG asking about getting a riding lesson here or there, more clinic like stuff. I didn't know he was on the SafeSport list because I honestly wasn't paying attention to anything like that. I had ridden with him previously and enjoyed his instruction.

      He replied back that he charged $500 a lesson.My eyes are about to fall out from rolling them so hard when I read people saying "his career was ruined!!"

      If only horses would use their athletic powers for good instead of evil. ~ MHM

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Void View Post

        So last year I had messaged RG asking about getting a riding lesson here or there, more clinic like stuff. I didn't know he was on the SafeSport list because I honestly wasn't paying attention to anything like that. I had ridden with him previously and enjoyed his instruction.

        He replied back that he charged $500 a lesson.My eyes are about to fall out from rolling them so hard when I read people saying "his career was ruined!!"


        How common is that for CA?

        Here in the horse-friendly mid-Atlantic where you can throw a rock and hit a BNT, I don't know of anyone who charges that much for a lesson. Not Olympians, not anyone. Although competition for riders and COL keep the prices in check.
        Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

        Comment


        • Originally posted by MHM View Post

          I have not caught up on all the sidetracks. Was the wife a victim of someone in the horse business?
          Yes. John Lipari.

          The Evil Chem Prof

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Void View Post

            So last year I had messaged RG asking about getting a riding lesson here or there, more clinic like stuff. I didn't know he was on the SafeSport list because I honestly wasn't paying attention to anything like that. I had ridden with him previously and enjoyed his instruction.

            He replied back that he charged $500 a lesson.My eyes are about to fall out from rolling them so hard when I read people saying "his career was ruined!!"
            Did you live near him? I knew others that inquired too. You would have to haul to his place. I believe he quoted my friend $100, which was what his clinic price was.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

              There actually IS a good case that fits exactly what you are getting at.

              Randall Cates. He has said in comments on Facebook he DIDN’T have sexual with the girl. And she backed his story up and refused to cooperate with the prosecutors. The parents apparently found LOTS AND LOTS of sexualized messages though, and it was obvious he was grooming her, and it had been going o for a few years beginning in her young teens. They also found diary entries the girl had made. The texts and diary made the parents believe the relationship was consummated and call the police. The police investigated, and according to public info agreed with the parents... but the girl refused to cooperate with the prosecutor. So they did not charge Case with the crime. However, the whole thing was brought to USEFs attention in 2015, when there were Safe Sport rules, but no Center yet, or independent investigators. USEF had a hearing and reviewed the evidence, and gave Cates a lifetime ban.

              Here’s a link to USEFs statement concerning their decision. I guess they issued this report in his case as it was one of their first, but these reports are not issued anymore....
              Is this what you were trying to link to? Waiting to see if my post ends up in jail, which I think happens sometimes with links. https://www.usef.org/content/documen...ublication.pdf
              The Evil Chem Prof

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Peggy View Post
                Yes. John Lipari.
                Thanks.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post



                  How common is that for CA?

                  Here in the horse-friendly mid-Atlantic where you can throw a rock and hit a BNT, I don't know of anyone who charges that much for a lesson. Not Olympians, not anyone. Although competition for riders and COL keep the prices in check.
                  Not common at all. Others have paid significantly less. You would have to haul to his place. He did do clinics where he would come to your barn. He did have a minimum price, so that he would not be traveling for one person. Gas is expensive in California. I helped organize a couple clinics and he did have a minimum daily rate. Not unreasonable at all in my opinion.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Virginia Horse Mom View Post

                    You asked earlier I think why I didn’t just respond on Facebook on her thread to the pedophile’s comment on her thread and tell him to F off ... because you are correct... I can ;-) Well, it’s because I think it’s important to watch it play out. And see how many more people give Randy Cates a thumbs up, or some other similar reaction. And who the people are that are giving Randy the thumbs up.
                    Frankly, I am surprised at some of the people who are supporting this. All along, we've heard rumors of who is going to go down and who testified against who. I think there is an attempt being made to cast a poor light on the process now so when someone's friend or co worker gets accused, they've already established themselves as thinking the process is fatally flawed.

                    A couple years ago, I was talking with a friend about Larry and Kelly and she was highly critical of Bonnie and other things she had done. Now, however, it's, thank goodness we have you to give us the truth. WTF?

                    I've spent the last couple days watching people I like double down against SafeSport without a single word about victims. I had a couple friends involved in various capacities and it's clear that some of the people against SafeSport are just flat out lying. I'm disheartened by the lack of empathy for victims. Someone almost shouted in my face, 'A man is dead!' and all I could think about were the number of times teens have committed suicide and the response is sympathetic, but also judgemental. 'Well she was running with the wrong crowd, drinking and doing drugs." But don't you remember when she said she was raped in the bathroom and no one believed her? And while some took her drinking and drugs and wild behavior to mean she was also a liar, I took it to mean she was telling the truth.
                    *****
                    You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                    Comment


                    • Thanks PonyPenny, maybe that was his "minimum" to travel or something (like, "I'll need to make at least that much to travel back there")... or maybe he just really didn't want to do it that day.
                      Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                      Comment


                      • My reply is in regards to comments about how parents just drop the kids off at barns or send them to shows by themselves. It’s been my experience with many different barns that trainers have encouraged this & it becomes a norm.
                        I’ve heard many parents of kids telling trainers they couldn’t go to a certain show because of a prior work or family obligation, then the trainers say, send them with me, it’ll be fine. Then what happens, the kids enjoy hanging out with friends/trainers at show without parental supervision, trainers like not having parents breathing down their necks asking questions.... so, the next show it’s encouraged again for parents to stay home.
                        Same goes for lessons. Trainers encourage parents to drop kids off a lot of the time. I heard trainers many times say, just leave Susie, we will find stuff for her to do, she can help out in the barn.
                        And, don’t get me wrong... it’s great for kids to be able to cut the cord & pitch in around the barn.
                        But, in my experience... parents don’t just sign kids up for lessons & take off. It’s encouraged by the trainers.

                        I go to all my kids lessons & shows. They grow up to fast to miss out on this part of there life. I realize not all parents have this luxury, but I do feel like a lot of trainers like having no parents around, & encourage parents to stay home.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Midge View Post

                          Frankly, I am surprised at some of the people who are supporting this. All along, we've heard rumors of who is going to go down and who testified against who. I think there is an attempt being made to cast a poor light on the process now so when someone's friend or co worker gets accused, they've already established themselves as thinking the process is fatally flawed.

                          A couple years ago, I was talking with a friend about Larry and Kelly and she was highly critical of Bonnie and other things she had done. Now, however, it's, thank goodness we have you to give us the truth. WTF?

                          I've spent the last couple days watching people I like double down against SafeSport without a single word about victims. I had a couple friends involved in various capacities and it's clear that some of the people against SafeSport are just flat out lying. I'm disheartened by the lack of empathy for victims. Someone almost shouted in my face, 'A man is dead!' and all I could think about were the number of times teens have committed suicide and the response is sympathetic, but also judgemental. 'Well she was running with the wrong crowd, drinking and doing drugs." But don't you remember when she said she was raped in the bathroom and no one believed her? And while some took her drinking and drugs and wild behavior to mean she was also a liar, I took it to mean she was telling the truth.
                          I feel like BN is the one you want in your corner fighting for you if you are guilty. She is smart and tenacious. She knows the law and will go thru the rules and process and find the loop hole to get a person off. I can see why people want her on their side. She doesn't seem to get people off based on their lack of guilt, but based on her ability to find the loop hole, the imperfection in the process or rules.
                          Accuracy is the twin brother of honesty; inaccuracy, of dishonesty.
                          Nathaniel Hawthorne

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
                            I find the Randy Cates case a clear case and vomit worthy too. It is kind of a straw man, though. I was not at all familiar with this case. If someone gives him a thumbs up, or a "wow" (OMG he did that!) or sad (So sad he did that) -- keep in mind that they may well know absolutely NOTHING about what he actually did. so easy to click "like" or "wow" or "sad" when someone agrees or disagrees with a sentiment without knowing anything about the story. A thoughtful person needs to be careful about the conclusions they draw from Facebook. You are very thoughtful so make sure you don't read too much into "wow" or "sad" faces.
                            This is fair. I went back just now and looked - 12 people gave him thumbs up, 4 gave a sad face, and 2 gave a wow face.

                            As for the straw man argument - you have a point, however... if you were inclined to publicly give a thumbs up to someone’s comment on a public forum, and your profile had your first and last name associated with it, and literally thousands of horse people across the country were following that thread... wouldn’t you pause for one second if the person making this seemingly sensible comment actually ADMITTED in the comment that they were currently banned for life by USEF and on the Safe Sport list...

                            I’m pretty sure you would. You probably aren’t quite as obsessive as me (that’s a compliment - lol - or an acknowledgement of my own foibles) and not as immediately inclined to google his name and try and figure out why he was put on that list by USEF... but if you did google him, the USEF decisioni and summary is literally one of the VERY first things that come up.

                            So I think there are multiple people supportive of him who KNOW who he is and what he was banned for. One person in particular who I won’t name because I still feel empathy for her, well, she is definitely familiar with the Safe Sport list and lifetime bans. And I understand that no one wants to look at her and go “WTF?!?” for a few major reasons... but she has given a thumbs up to Randy Cates. I see it. I didn’t and don’t want to criticize her reaction to the recent tragedy of RGs death, but I am actually shocked she would give that comment a thumbs up. Randy Cates is an ASB trainer from Oklahoma... the “she has a lifelong personal connection to him and sees the situation from that perspective” excuse doesn’t apply.

                            And for everyone who said earlier they hope RGs victims don’t come forward publicly as they fear what will happen - I agree!!! 100%. But I wish I didn’t. I wish the community had evolved and become much more educated and empathetic and responsible with their comments. But it just hasn’t. Not by a long shot.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                              Virginia Horse Mom I suspect that a lot of us posting here speak to our friends and think to ourselves things that we would not put out on this board or Facebook.

                              That is what truly shocks me the most. That people are publicly saying who cares it was so long ago. These same people then allude to knowing about it but “it was a different time.” They post that if it was their daughter they would help her understand and come to terms with HER mistakes. It’s appalling.
                              Was this on Vanessa's page?
                              *****
                              You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Midge View Post
                                I've spent the last couple days watching people I like double down against SafeSport without a single word about victims. I had a couple friends involved in various capacities and it's clear that some of the people against SafeSport are just flat out lying. I'm disheartened by the lack of empathy for victims. Someone almost shouted in my face, 'A man is dead!' and all I could think about were the number of times teens have committed suicide and the response is sympathetic, but also judgemental. 'Well she was running with the wrong crowd, drinking and doing drugs." But don't you remember when she said she was raped in the bathroom and no one believed her? And while some took her drinking and drugs and wild behavior to mean she was also a liar, I took it to mean she was telling the truth.
                                Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It helps restore my faith in humanity. The person borderline shouting in your face is just nuts and sad. I’ve chosen to vent on the forums because I really don’t want to discuss this in person or on Facebook with people I also know who are also following it closely.

                                Comment


                                • FWIW this is NOT just a problem in the hunter portion of the horse world.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by PonyPenny View Post

                                    Did you live near him? I knew others that inquired too. You would have to haul to his place. I believe he quoted my friend $100, which was what his clinic price was.
                                    I dod live near by. He wouldn't let me haul in so that was his price to go 20 mins down the road. As you can imagine haha I found the price to be too high considering there are lots of talented people to ride with in SoCal.
                                    If only horses would use their athletic powers for good instead of evil. ~ MHM

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Midge View Post

                                      Was this on Vanessa's page?
                                      It’s basically what people are saying all over Facebook.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by roseymare View Post
                                        FWIW this is NOT just a problem in the hunter portion of the horse world.
                                        It’s not but they seem to be the only ones acting like the sky is falling.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by bingbingbing View Post


                                          I pray they don't come forward publicly. They will be beyond publicly lynched. People are accusing Anne Kursinski of killing RG. They are saying she deserved Eros dying.

                                          I have so many thoughts on this. But the bottom line is that we need to protect our children as best we can. A predator is sick, ill, and they will not stop.

                                          I really believe that there are so many people squirming waiting for that email. But still I also believe that there are many still engaging in this behavior. People joke about the trainer who goes out to the pool where all the juniors are in their bikinis, while the adults are inside....being adults, not predators.

                                          It is unfortunate that innocent members need to change their normal, healthy behavior to follow the Safe Sport rules. But IMO it is worth it. Being sexually abused has a lifetime effect on so many aspects of a person's life.

                                          I was not physically abused, but was involved with very inappropriate behavior by a priest. I made a recording of him saying very inappropriate things to me and my friends. It was presented to the Pastor of the church and NOTHING was done. This was the 80's. Eventually his predatory ways caught up with him. But not without many victims. The fact he got away with his behavior as long as he did is disgusting. He abused way more girls than reported, victims don't come forward because of the lack of support and vitriol against them.

                                          https://www.andersonadvocates.com/Pr...-R.-Logan.aspx
                                          Thanks for sharing your story. I grew up Catholic, have 2 kids who were baptized in a Catholic Church, and guess what? We don’t go to Catholic Church’s in this family anymore. Period. Because it is something they STILL have not come to terms with and are not totally honest about. The relatively recent case of the defrocked Cardinal and how they were protecting him throughout the 2000’s... until it was IMPOSSIBLE to avoid dealing with it? Yeah. I’m so done. I’m pretty much a pagan at this point.

                                          I definitely didn’t intend to make it sound like I think the victims need to come forward publicly, or even should. I respect their choice 100%. I just wanted to be careful and acknowledge that I don’t know, what I don’t know. RG took his own life last week. And the family who loved him are hurting.

                                          I agree though... people who engage in this behavior are lifelong risks. And I also agree that there are other people who were busy during that “different era” who are nervous right now. And frankly, I really have no sympathy, and don’t care who they are, and don’t care if they have stayed out of trouble for years and years. Anyone who had a sexual relationship with a minor when they were an adult... It was wrong then and they knew it. A 30 year old man KNOWS it is wrong to sleep with a 16 year old girl. Period. And if the only penalty a person like that faces is being banned from competitions decades later when they are old and grey, they got pretty lucky.

                                          Comment

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