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Attitude issues

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  • Attitude issues

    My 4 year old horse, Lolly, is very lazy. So lazy, that she has the * I will do what I want when I want attitude.* In fact, just the other day, with my girth tight, she reared up in refusal to walk down the field, and reared so high that the saddle slipped off and I was on my rear in the grass with my saddle between my legs and my feet in the stirrup. How do I fix this attitude? Ps, she is NOT sore anywhere. Just got back from vet with a clean bill of health.

  • #2
    I'm not quite sure I understand how the horse got rid of both you and the saddle together so quickly? Not that it really matters, but I just wonder how she stepped out of the girth?

    Anyway, if you say that she's not sore anywhere, it's still possible that the saddle doesn't fit, which can cause pretty significant pain. If the saddle is too narrow in the tree then it will badly pinch the area just below the withers on either side; if the saddle is too wide, it will press down on the spine and cause pain. Or if the saddle fits without a pad and then you put a thick pad underneath, you may have just made the saddle too narrow. Having a saddle fitter evaluate the fit can be very helpful.

    Another possibility is that the horse is being pinched by the girth. You might try changing the girth--if you're using a leather girth, try a neoprene girth or a string girth, or put a sheepskin sleeve on it, etc.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

    Comment


    • #3
      Get a trainer ASAP and a vet work up.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Posting Trot, I do have a custom saddle to fit Lolly, and a thin gel support pad recommended by the makers of the saddle. I have a sheepskin soft girth from Dover also. As for the saddle slipping off, I also have no clue how it happened The refusals happen on a regular basis, it's like she is a hard to control teen.

        Comment


        • #5
          Sorry, but I am just not understanding how a saddle with as you said, a "tight girth" could slide over the barrel and the rump and go down the back legs... unless your horse is shaped like Gumby's pony Pokey. Now, I could picture it if the girth actually came off one one side, like maybe the elastic broke or the buckles weren't engaged in the billets properly.

          But anyway, regardless, if this 4 year old is rearing regularly as you say, you need to get Lolly to an experienced trainer, like ASAP, as this is a disaster waiting to happen. Something is clearly out of sorts with this horse (pain, anxiety, manners, etc.) and rearing is not something to be trifled with and needs to be evaluated by a professional.
          ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

          Comment


          • #6
            Do you have a trainer? If not, get one.

            I expect there is also something physical going on.

            Lazy and balking are different things. Lots of low energy horses shuffle around obediently all day.

            What you have is a dominant horse that balks, and ups the ante and rears, as a form of resistance. She may or may not be lazy. The horses I have seen do this are in fact pretty hot horses when they are in the mood. But they are also horses that react to ridet error, physical pain, or rider confusion by getting angry. A balking horse is an angry horse.

            I have dealt with a horse that started balking initially because of poor saddle fit and then because of mistakes I was making as a returning rider. One of my friends is in a similar situation now, probably worse.

            In retrospect I should have sent my horse back to my coach for a 30 day refresher as soon as the problem started. I've fixed most of it over the past 8 years but it remains in her repertoire.

            Once a horse learns to balk it is a very effective way to resist a rider and a very hard one to fix. Your horse is 4 and she is therefore green. You are teaching her habits that will last a lifetime and putting yourself in danger.

            Rearing and bucking are escalations of balking. You are on your way to creating a dangerous horse that no.one will want.

            From how you phrase the question it is clear you don't have the skills to fix it. No shame in that. Get a trainer involved ASAP before you get hurt and you or your parents decide to sell the horse to the meat buyer.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Scribbler I am in line for a trainer, and don't live with my parents thank you very much. Even if I did, they would NEVER EVER EVER sell a horse to the meat buyers. I also think i have the skills to make her not rear, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my original post. She is hurting nowhere at all.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                4leafcloverfarm i am thinking her manners are really bad. I just got her and she wasn't the best trained.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jumping_bean View Post
                  Scribbler I am in line for a trainer, and don't live with my parents thank you very much. Even if I did, they would NEVER EVER EVER sell a horse to the meat buyers. I also think i have the skills to make her not rear, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear in my original post. She is hurting nowhere at all.
                  Don’t take offense to Scribblers post. Also, if you had the skills to not make her rear you wouldn’t have started this thread. You are over mounted at the moment. That’s fine. We’ve all been there. Get help now. How do you know she’s not hurting? What diagnostics have you done?

                  Its not her manners. It’s her rider.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jumping_bean View Post
                    4leafcloverfarm i am thinking her manners are really bad. I just got her and she wasn't the best trained.
                    Ok, you are working with a horse that may not even be broke. While you wait for a trainer, get off her back and start some ground work. If you don't know groundwork look up Warwick Schiller or similar. Horse probably needs to be started from scratch.

                    And sorry no. If the horse has progressed from balking to rearing and you came off, no you don't have the skills to solve this on your own. And yes you are on the path to creating a problem horse no one will want.

                    When the horse rears over backwards and kills you, the horse will get euthanized for sure.

                    My point is this is not a lazy horse. This is an angry horse learning dangerous habits.

                    And your saddle does not fit. Otherwise it wouldn't have slipped off.

                    Get intelligent help now and stay off the horse until then.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Scribbler I call troll

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                        Scribbler I call troll
                        I don't actually because IME its almost inevitable that a newbie or beginner or rerider that gets a budget or green horse without trainer support, will end up teaching it to either balk, buck and rear or else bolt and buck.

                        The green horse can't handle the annoying green rider. The green rider can't see warning signs and can't problem solve and mistakes anger for laziness.

                        Eventually rider gets hurt or scared, or frustrated, and stops riding, discovers ground work, and hooks up with a trainer.

                        The longer the rider persists and fights horse, the more ingrained the problem.

                        Been there done that come out OK the other side. Watching it happen to others all around me.

                        I do think we are having an influx of new members due to that other forum site faltering and that site certainly attracted more newbies and kids than COTH.

                        The defensiveness about advice kind of goes with the territory. And yeah, I'm pretty sure this post is from a 15 year old and there is no saddle fitter involved. And no vet. Because horses don't " just come back from the vet" like hamsters and dogs. The vet cones to the farm.

                        Question for OP: what diagnostics has your vet done? Have you ruled out HYPP, kissing spine, back athrtitis? What do the feet look like?

                        My guess is there is some kid getting balking and rearing in some backyard somewhere on an unbroke horse someone let them have, and kid wants the magical solution with no cash for vet, saddle, or trainer.

                        There isn't one. Especially if your parents aren't around with a cheque book.

                        ​​

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                          Don’t take offense to Scribblers post. Also, if you had the skills to not make her rear you wouldn’t have started this thread. You are over mounted at the moment. That’s fine. We’ve all been there. Get help now. How do you know she’s not hurting? What diagnostics have you done?

                          Its not her manners. It’s her rider.
                          I was seeing if any one else had had a problem with a balking horse, not because I'm incompetent. And I wasn't at offense to the post, I was at offense to the nasty smart about meat buyers. And she just got back from a full body check with x rays. Also a check with farrier. All clear. And if great trainers have ridden her and said it was her manners, then it is her manners. I am not one to blame things on the horse unless it really is the horse. Which is very rare.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jumping_bean View Post

                            I was seeing if any one else had had a problem with a balking horse, not because I'm incompetent. And I wasn't at offense to the post, I was at offense to the nasty smart about meat buyers. And she just got back from a full body check with x rays. Also a check with farrier. All clear. And if great trainers have ridden her and said it was her manners, then it is her manners. I am not one to blame things on the horse unless it really is the horse. Which is very rare.
                            Send the horse forward, get a saddle that fits and learn how to tack up correctly. Of course people have experienced a balking horse. Your concern about balking rather than rearing is concerning since they are solved by the same solution. FORWARD. If you actually could train out rearing you wouldn’t be asking about balking.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with Scribbler in staying off the horse until work with an experienced trainer can be arranged. Though I'd note that if you (OP) haven't brought along other untrained/green youngsters and aren't exactly sure what to do, improper ground work exercises and behavior modification could make the situation worse.

                              But if you are insistent on getting back on this unpredictable youngster, PLEASE tell me you are wearing an appropriately fitted, approved helmet. And add a safety vest if you aren't already wearing one. Since you seem rather adamant that you have the "skills" needed on your own, its not IF you get hurt, but WHEN. So at least do what you can to protect your body - it might just save your life.
                              ~~ How do you catch a loose horse? Make a noise like a carrot! - British Cavalry joke ~~

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                I don't actually because IME its almost inevitable that a newbie or beginner or rerider that gets a budget or green horse without trainer support, will end up teaching it to either balk, buck and rear or else bolt and buck.

                                The green horse can't handle the annoying green rider. The green rider can't see warning signs and can't problem solve and mistakes anger for laziness.

                                Eventually rider gets hurt or scared, or frustrated, and stops riding, discovers ground work, and hooks up with a trainer.

                                The longer the rider persists and fights horse, the more ingrained the problem.

                                Been there done that come out OK the other side. Watching it happen to others all around me.

                                I do think we are having an influx of new members due to that other forum site faltering and that site certainly attracted more newbies and kids than COTH.

                                The defensiveness about advice kind of goes with the territory. And yeah, I'm pretty sure this post is from a 15 year old and there is no saddle fitter involved.
                                I agree but say troll because there is no honesty. We’ve all been there. No shame.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                                  I don't actually because IME its almost inevitable that a newbie or beginner or rerider that gets a budget or green horse without trainer support, will end up teaching it to either balk, buck and rear or else bolt and buck.

                                  The green horse can't handle the annoying green rider. The green rider can't see warning signs and can't problem solve and mistakes anger for laziness.

                                  Eventually rider gets hurt or scared, or frustrated, and stops riding, discovers ground work, and hooks up with a trainer.

                                  The longer the rider persists and fights horse, the more ingrained the problem.

                                  Been there done that come out OK the other side. Watching it happen to others all around me.

                                  I do think we are having an influx of new members due to that other forum site faltering and that site certainly attracted more newbies and kids than COTH.
                                  I am not new and I am not a kid. Thanks for your hate speech. All I'm looking for is anyone with a similar problem.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by jumping_bean View Post

                                    I am not new and I am not a kid. Thanks for your hate speech. All I'm looking for is anyone with a similar problem.
                                    Scribbler I rest my case. You’re slinging hate speech!!!

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by jumping_bean View Post

                                      I am not new and I am not a kid. Thanks for your hate speech. All I'm looking for is anyone with a similar problem.
                                      This is not hate speech.

                                      If you read my post you will see I am someone who created and then fixed this same problem and gets to observe multiple other newbie riders create and try to fix the problem.

                                      Go back and read my post. I actually know what I'm talking about. Balking is an angry horse not a lazy one. An angry horse is angry because you are confusing or hurting him in the saddle.

                                      You came on here for advice because you know you are in over your head. So good for you.

                                      But when you get advice you are then defensive and rude and don't look at the content of the advice.

                                      Thats what people mean by troll. You are coming on here to pick a fight. You don't seem interested in actually thinking about the advice you asked for.

                                      COTH trends towards older more experienced riders including trainers, coaches, and competitors. We are happy to give advice but we are not happy to give advice and then have people spit in our faces.

                                      Get over yourself.

                                      If you aren't 15 stop acting like you are.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                        Scribbler I rest my case. You’re slinging hate speech!!!
                                        Well the title of the thread says it all.

                                        Comment

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