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Can we talk about SafeSport?

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  • TooManyBays
    started a topic Can we talk about SafeSport?

    Can we talk about SafeSport?

    Does anyone else feel this is getting ridiculous?

    https://www.chronofhorse.com/article...REsh8REqo7FR6I
    So now we can’t IM students on Facebook, or text them without CCing someone.
    I was on board for the earlier sanctions as I do feel that we needed something to protect children but this is going over the top.

  • bip
    replied
    Originally posted by RugBug View Post

    Because it won't stop the unprofessional communications and will curtail the use for those that aren't a problem anyway.
    Stop signs don’t stop all accidents, and they curtail the travel of law abiding drivers. But we still have them.

    Leave a comment:


  • betonbill
    replied
    As a mere bystander, it seems to me that all of this emailing between student with a cc to the parent, the use of permission strips for shows, staying at barn, keeping doors open when with a minor, etc., etc., is one of the very best forms of self-protection a pro could have. The absolute best form is to simply keep one's pants zipped at all times when around students or other barn people.

    Leave a comment:


  • MintHillFarm
    replied
    Has anyone noticed under the Ineligibility List on the USEF website, how many members have not taken Safe Sport and yet to quote "SafeSport Training Overdue - allowed on competition grounds" I partially went through the list and just under last names beginning with A there are over 12 pages (20+ to a page)...

    Leave a comment:


  • Denali6298
    replied
    Originally posted by Tiramit View Post
    What I don't understand is why adults aren't embracing SafeSport's rules as an alibi if false accusations and competitor backhanding are such a concern? While I have no intention of ever coming close to being on SafeSports' bad list, if my livelihood was tied up in the sport, I'd gladly install cameras all over the barn and cc parents on every communication if it would help me avoid a potential wrongful suspension.
    Because it’s not a genuine concern. It’s just an excuse to criticize something they don’t agree with. I also think some people saying that know where the bodies are buried and are concerned with getting caught up in an investigation. Better to keep everyone quiet and act like the horse industry can’t survive without texts to minors and social media.

    Leave a comment:


  • Texarkana
    replied
    Originally posted by Tiramit View Post
    What I don't understand is why adults aren't embracing SafeSport's rules as an alibi if false accusations and competitor backhanding are such a concern? While I have no intention of ever coming close to being on SafeSports' bad list, if my livelihood was tied up in the sport, I'd gladly install cameras all over the barn and cc parents on every communication if it would help me avoid a potential wrongful suspension.
    RIGHT?!?!?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tiramit
    replied
    What I don't understand is why adults aren't embracing SafeSport's rules as an alibi if false accusations and competitor backhanding are such a concern? While I have no intention of ever coming close to being on SafeSports' bad list, if my livelihood was tied up in the sport, I'd gladly install cameras all over the barn and cc parents on every communication if it would help me avoid a potential wrongful suspension.

    Leave a comment:


  • atl_hunter
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    I think what many of you fail to realize is that in todays social media world, how easy it is for a sexual predator to message a minor, behind closed doors so to speak, and start carrying on questionable conversations over a period of time. Its part of grooming and these disgusting excuses use social media to hide from parents or supervisors to do their dirty work. I cant count on 2 hands how many creepy messages I get from men on facebook every week and I am a grown young adult. Kids don't know better. Very few parents monitor what their kids do on social media today.
    Actually, the abundant majority of people realize this. Social media is monitored, it's trackable and can provide truly helpful evidentiary support, unlike the content of phone calls with SS still allows... *sigh* But please educate us all and do tell us what predator would follow a SS rule but would then break a law by grooming a child? Why make all trainers and adults out to be predators? You cannot solve grey issues with black and white answers.

    Perhaps SafeSport should work with Congress to ban SoMe for the under 18. Problem solved. How's that for a black and white answer?

    Leave a comment:


  • Texarkana
    replied
    Originally posted by AppleBird View Post
    Suggested reading, for what it's worth:
    http://www.pollyfrost.com/blog/2018/...ged-child.html
    As utterly abhorrent as this blog post is, it sounds like this woman is having a hard time rationalizing things she does not fully understand that happened during what was likely the best days of her life.

    Quite frankly, I feel bad for her. It sounds like she needs the #metoo movement way more than the millennials she disparages. Reading the blog is almost like being a fly on the wall in someone's trainwreck of a therapy session.

    I also feel like some of the pushback against SafeSport, like this blog post, is coming from a place of guilty conscience. I don't think there's a person alive who hasn't done something in the past that was within social norms but otherwise considered wrong. Instead of just admitting, "hey, we were young and stupid and made mistakes," they try to justify their behavior. Maybe it's a coping mechanism?

    Leave a comment:


  • Texarkana
    replied
    Originally posted by specifiedcupcake View Post
    Anyone else think the new rules regarding texting and stuff are maybe a bit like cell phones in cars - like no one's gonna pull you over for it, but if you're texting and hit someone it's something else to add to the list of charges? Surely no one is gonna report the trainer who has a latchkey kid at the barn all the time, or 17 year old working student that they text. But it would be another factor/evidence if there was a investigation or allegation made.
    Exactly. But for the record, you can and will get pulled over for using a cell phone in cars in many jurisdictions.

    I really don't believe USEF is going to allow venerable members to be barred for life because they texted their minor working student to bring the horses in because there is a storm coming or to ride their pony with spurs today.

    But there is zero reason to be excessively texting a minor things that a parent shouldn't/couldn't be looped in on. So when an allegation is made and there were 2000 text messages made between adult and child... hmm, yeah, starting to look a little more suspicious...

    And going forward, if those really WERE just 2000 texts about horse husbandry, lessons, and tack, well then maybe the adult needs to find a more transparent manner of communication to protect themselves. People hate the idea of having to protect themselves when they are innocent. Believe me, I get it. But we unfortunately live in a CYA world. What's the old adage? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure? It's a lot easier to not get in trouble in the first place than to try to convince a jury (or SafeSport for that matter) that you spent every day alone with your minor student but no abuse happened despite their claims.

    Leave a comment:


  • specifiedcupcake
    replied
    Anyone else think the new rules regarding texting and stuff are maybe a bit like cell phones in cars - like no one's gonna pull you over for it, but if you're texting and hit someone it's something else to add to the list of charges? Surely no one is gonna report the trainer who has a latchkey kid at the barn all the time, or 17 year old working student that they text. But it would be another factor/evidence if there was an investigation or allegation made.

    Leave a comment:


  • eclipse
    replied
    Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post
    That blog made me physically ill.
    She’s the reason victims are afraid to step forward.....what an awful, self righteous, ugly piece of “writing” (because I find it hard to actually call that drivel writing!).

    in regards to the gymnastics.....being an ex elite gymnast, nothing shocks me. While I was never subjected to sexual abuse (my dr was my family dr back in the 70s), mental,and physical most definitely. To this day, I still find it hard to look at the positive side of things. For example, when I was 12, I did a floor routine that the crowd loved, I was thrilled but my coach was not (and this was always a daily occurrence)....imagine coming off and always only being told what you’d done wrong “your legs were bent, you didn’t point your toes here and here, you missed your move here” and so on.....never the positive first ALWAYS the negative....that sticks with you FOREVER and people to this day, do not understand the mind games this plays on you “well you’re in your 50s now, get over it, that happened when you were a child”. So how can something like sexual abuse ever be got over when this can’t be got over?? Yeah, it cannot.....my heart breaks for those girls. Our coaches were GODS to us.....rest a stress fracture as per the dr? No way says the coach....so we tape and go, and 40 years later we suffer! I loved travelling and competing, and lucky for me, I had parents that stepped in and let me quit when I needed too....BUT if I had kids, would I let them go through that? Honestly, probably not!

    Leave a comment:


  • paw
    replied
    Originally posted by RugBug View Post

    Because it won't stop the unprofessional communications and will curtail the use for those that aren't a problem anyway.
    This is the real issue. Predators are going to find ways around anything "Safe Sport" puts in their way.

    Leave a comment:


  • RugBug
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    I think what many of you fail to realize is that in todays social media world, how easy it is for a sexual predator to message a minor, behind closed doors so to speak, and start carrying on questionable conversations over a period of time. Its part of grooming and these disgusting excuses use social media to hide from parents or supervisors to do their dirty work. I cant count on 2 hands how many creepy messages I get from men on facebook every week and I am a grown young adult. Kids don't know better. Very few parents monitor what their kids do on social media today.
    Because it won't stop the unprofessional communications and will curtail the use for those that aren't a problem anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • IPEsq
    replied
    Originally posted by RugBug View Post

    She totally misses the point. Yes, a lot of those happened...and do still happen. But they shouldn't. A 16 year old CANNOT have consensual sex with an adult. Men should rebuff the advances of minors. Drugs and alcohol and partying are not excuses. Grooming is REAL.

    There is just so much there to hang your head over.
    Totally misses the point. And stabling at another barn in another discipline in the area from the predator makes her an expert on that case? And how did what good horses cost have anything to do with it? I also watched the gymnastics documentary the other day. Wow. Just wow. I hadn't really followed the details on that.

    Leave a comment:


  • trubandloki
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    if you didn't fail to realize that then why are you debating or complaining about safe sport taking the necessary measures to ensure trainers are not contacting minors in this manner, which is unprofessional.
    Why is it unprofessional?

    There is a long list of legit reasons to use social media as a form of communication.

    Just because there are nefarious uses of social media it does not negate the perfectly legitimate uses for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • snaffle1987
    replied
    if you didn't fail to realize that then why are you debating or complaining about safe sport taking the necessary measures to ensure trainers are not contacting minors in this manner, which is unprofessional.

    Leave a comment:


  • Midge
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    I think what many of you fail to realize is that in todays social media world, how easy it is for a sexual predator to message a minor, behind closed doors so to speak, and start carrying on questionable conversations over a period of time. Its part of grooming and these disgusting excuses use social media to hide from parents or supervisors to do their dirty work. I cant count on 2 hands how many creepy messages I get from men on facebook every week and I am a grown young adult. Kids don't know better. Very few parents monitor what their kids do on social media today.
    Who would fail to realize that?

    Leave a comment:


  • trubandloki
    replied
    Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
    I think what many of you fail to realize is that in todays social media world, how easy it is for a sexual predator to message a minor, behind closed doors so to speak, and start carrying on questionable conversations over a period of time.
    I do not think anyone fails to realize any of this.

    Leave a comment:


  • snaffle1987
    replied
    I think what many of you fail to realize is that in todays social media world, how easy it is for a sexual predator to message a minor, behind closed doors so to speak, and start carrying on questionable conversations over a period of time. Its part of grooming and these disgusting excuses use social media to hide from parents or supervisors to do their dirty work. I cant count on 2 hands how many creepy messages I get from men on facebook every week and I am a grown young adult. Kids don't know better. Very few parents monitor what their kids do on social media today.

    Leave a comment:

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