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Can we talk about SafeSport?

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  • Originally posted by Haylter View Post
    I have said it before and will say it again... I firmly believe that silly sport is NOT GOING TO HELP ONE SINGLE CHILD!! and is especially inappropriately "designed" for our sport. Home and schools are the place children should be taught the "skills" "mind set" that would help prevent and report abusers, random strangers should not be taught what is and is not "abuse" and how to police their peers. It is ridiculous to place any of the responsibility on people who are paying ALOT of HARD EARNED MONEY to COMPETE when there are many other people with access to kids at barns or shows that do not have to take silly sport. And yes I have wasted a few hours of my life completing silly sport and the training was USELESS! Actually part of it makes it sound like "good guys" are just lulling kids into a sense of false security so they can then turn into "bad guys"
    That is a thing that happens. It's called grooming. Bad people manipulate kids into trusting them by being really, really "nice." It is, literally, a thing children need to be protected from. It doesn't mean that all nice people are trying to abuse children, but that people need to be on the look out for the possibility that "great opportunities" aren't always great. They can isolate kids and make them very vulnerable.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RugBug View Post

      Educate and EMPOWER. If we remove the shame of abuse and start believing the stories, we'd create a world where potential victims could and would speak up...and they would be heard and the situation addressed.

      Think about #MEtoo and the ripple, nay tidal wave, that has caused. What brought about Safe Sport? Girls/women that were empowered to tell their stories and were believed.
      An adult who cared less about pissing off the big name coach and more about the child.

      It’s about ways to be proactive instead of reactive.

      Comment


      • TooManyBays - I agree that educating the children would be a much better solution. And as far as I know that hasn’t really even factored in to anything SafeSport has done so far - Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think kids under 18 even need to take any online training, just parents.

        I have a feeling those making the policies are afraid to address this because they either see it (inaccurately) as a form of victim-blaming, or because they don’t want to open the ‘can of worms’ of addressing anything sex-related with kids. But I think that empowering kids with knowledge of what to look for and what to do if an adult does something that makes them uncomfortable would do more than requiring permission slips and making rules demanding group text messages to actually keep kids safe and stop predators (who are already people who believe that the rules don’t apply to them).

        Comment


        • It's ironic that people think that the responsibility of keeping kids safe should fall on someone else's shoulders. I keep reading that this is the responsibility of the parents, schools, anyone but the horse industry.

          It takes a village, y'all. And not every child has a good home or school life where they have the opportunity to learn about abuse and grooming. Just because the horse industry predominately caters to students of a higher socioeconomic status doesn't automatically guarantee they have access to this type of information. Some are being abused by the very parents who are supposed to be keeping them safe.

          Maybe you following the rules and modeling appropriate child/adult boundaries will set a precedent that empowers the child to speak up in a different situation before they are abused by an actual predator.
          Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EllenMCM View Post

            That is a thing that happens. It's called grooming. Bad people manipulate kids into trusting them by being really, really "nice." It is, literally, a thing children need to be protected from. It doesn't mean that all nice people are trying to abuse children, but that people need to be on the look out for the possibility that "great opportunities" aren't always great. They can isolate kids and make them very vulnerable.
            I realize this, but my god they make it sound like EVERY nice person is a groom, well heck most in our sport are!!! Seriously after the training I was like G DAMN how soon will it be til someone suspects or accuses me while I have my niece and nephew at a horse show!!! Like seriously this type of scenario has probably happened 1,0000 times and will countless more Kid "my bum still kinda hurts" adult who looks nothing like them "I'm sorry it happened, but you were very brave and did not cry and we checked you are OK. I am really proud of you and it will be easier tomorrow. Let's talk about something else. How about some ice cream" ya kid bounced off a fresh pony earlier in the day.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
              TooManyBays - I agree that educating the children would be a much better solution. And as far as I know that hasn’t really even factored in to anything SafeSport has done so far - Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think kids under 18 even need to take any online training, just parents.

              I have a feeling those making the policies are afraid to address this because they either see it (inaccurately) as a form of victim-blaming, or because they don’t want to open the ‘can of worms’ of addressing anything sex-related with kids. But I think that empowering kids with knowledge of what to look for and what to do if an adult does something that makes them uncomfortable would do more than requiring permission slips and making rules demanding group text messages to actually keep kids safe and stop predators (who are already people who believe that the rules don’t apply to them).
              We already educate children about abuse and sexual predators.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by EllenMCM View Post

                That is a thing that happens. It's called grooming. Bad people manipulate kids into trusting them by being really, really "nice." It is, literally, a thing children need to be protected from. It doesn't mean that all nice people are trying to abuse children, but that people need to be on the look out for the possibility that "great opportunities" aren't always great. They can isolate kids and make them very vulnerable.
                They do it to the parents too. It’s why kids are not always believed when the kids do speak up. Trainers befriend the parents and then parents are faced with the dilemma of speaking out against their “friend” or telling their kid they must be mistaken and give every possible twisted scenario about how the kids perception of what happened is wrong.

                Or alternate scenario kid speaks to a trusted adult boarder instead of Mom and Dad because home life sucks or they are afraid to go to them. Trusted adult boarder couldn’t imagine BNT doing such a thing so they tell kiddo they misinterpreted, are you sure blah blah blah nothing gets said because kid eventually sees adults are skeptical.

                Comment


                • I think I sort of agree with the safesport rules. Those who have been around the block for many years may find this absurd. I used to take my bus to my barn (from school) and get dropped off. Early dismissal days, my trainer would come pick me up and take me to "work" at the barn. Sexual predators have become more prevalent now then they have ever been; mainly because they are being held accountable and investigated. Many trainers over the years have been sexual predators; many thrown out to the public eye once they had passed on. Many have been prominent names in the business and there are still prominent names in the business who are out there, who have been accused, just never investigated; one being a famous eventer who is still training youth

                  Safesport is making an effort to protect children. and in doing so; believe it or not, these types of rules are protecting your business as well. Look at teachers for instance. No social media whatsoever with colleagues or youth. Have I been facebook friends with teachers and professors long after graduation; yes of course. Many of them still see me on occasion. Trainers should be in the same boat. Many of these children are dropped at the barn or go there themselves. there is minimal parental oversight as to what goes on there. It is the perfect environment for predators and history has proven that.

                  If you wanted to protect your business and your workers at your barn; social media friends is not the way to do it. All contact should be funneled through the parent or have the parent CC'd on it. I don't have a single coworker on any of my social media and there is a reason why my social media is set to 100% private. It's about protecting yourself, protecting your business and protecting the kids entrusted in your care while at the barn.

                  If this was any other business besides the equine industry the current practice of social media use, facebook friends, texts and PMs, would be a major no-no.

                  Parents need to be involved even if they don't think they should. the barn is not the babysitter and parents should absolutely care about the adults overseeing their children of any age at the barn and both professionals and parents alike should know and understand the risk that social media puts them in

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Texarkana View Post
                    It's ironic that people think that the responsibility of keeping kids safe should fall on someone else's shoulders. I keep reading that this is the responsibility of the parents, schools, anyone but the horse industry.

                    It takes a village, y'all. And not every child has a good home or school life where they have the opportunity to learn about abuse and grooming. Just because the horse industry predominately caters to students of a higher socioeconomic status doesn't automatically guarantee they have access to this type of information. Some are being abused by the very parents who are supposed to be keeping them safe.
                    This is exactly why I think educating the kids participating in the sport would be more useful than making rules demanding permission slips and group texts. Is it fair that kids should have to protect themselves from predators? Absolutely not. But I think it would be more effective.

                    Maybe you following the rules and modeling appropriate child/adult boundaries will set a precedent that empowers the child to speak up in a different situation before they are abused by an actual predator.
                    I don’t believe that appropriate child/adult boundaries are necessarily defined by how many permission slips a parent has signed.

                    Comment


                    • snaffle1987 I wish I could like your post more than once.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post

                        This is exactly why I think educating the kids participating in the sport would be more useful than making rules demanding permission slips and group texts. Is it fair that kids should have to protect themselves from predators? Absolutely not. But I think it would be more effective.



                        I don’t believe that appropriate child/adult boundaries are necessarily defined by how many permission slips a parent has signed.
                        What would you have kids educated to do when they are sexually abused by an adult? Call mom and dad? File a police report? Knee to the nuts?

                        We talk to kids about stranger danger and tricky people starting in preschool. A lot of kids DO report abuse. It's not always effective.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EllenMCM View Post

                          What would you have kids educated to do when they are sexually abused by an adult? Call mom and dad? File a police report? Knee to the nuts?
                          As it’s been said before, most kids aren’t just molested by a random adult out of the blue ... they’re groomed beforehand and there are warning signs of creepy behavior. If a kids recognizes these and tells a parent (or even another adult who isn’t a friend of the potential predator) it hopefully won’t ever get to that point. It’s not a magic bullet, but I’d bet money that GOOD education (not just “don’t talk to strangers and don’t get in the van with the man who offers you candy”) would do more to prevent abuse than making sure female adult amateurs aren’t Facebook friends with the working students at their barn.

                          And if someone is going to molest a kid out of the blue, the fact that mom and dad signed a permission slip for the kid to be there probably won’t stop them.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post

                            As it’s been said before, most kids aren’t just molested by a random adult out of the blue ... they’re groomed beforehand and there are warning signs of creepy behavior. If a kids recognizes these and tells a parent (or even another adult who isn’t a friend of the potential predator) it hopefully won’t ever get to that point. It’s not a magic bullet, but I’d bet money that GOOD education (not just “don’t talk to strangers and don’t get in the van with the man who offers you candy”) would do more to prevent abuse than making sure female adult amateurs aren’t Facebook friends with the working students at their barn.

                            And if someone is going to molest a kid out of the blue, the fact that mom and dad signed a permission slip for the kid to be there probably won’t stop them.
                            So what does good education look like?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post

                              This is exactly why I think educating the kids participating in the sport would be more useful than making rules demanding permission slips and group texts. Is it fair that kids should have to protect themselves from predators? Absolutely not. But I think it would be more effective.



                              I don’t believe that appropriate child/adult boundaries are necessarily defined by how many permission slips a parent has signed.
                              So you’d rather the onus to be on the potential victims? The onus needs to be on the child? Wow.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post

                                So you’d rather the onus to be on the potential victims? The onus needs to be on the child? Wow.
                                This is an interesting way to twist this.

                                Why is it wrong to give the kids a better education?

                                If it takes a village, that village includes everyone.

                                This system is ignoring one of the biggest pieces, educating the people it is trying to protect.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                  The journalist's riding instructor allowed the second adult (the track coach) to abuse her...and yet they could have easily been the "two adults' that are required by SafeSport.
                                  Is this from the documentary on Netflix? Could you please remind me of the title? I haven’t seen it yet.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by snaffle1987 View Post
                                    Many have been prominent names in the business and there are still prominent names in the business who are out there, who have been accused, just never investigated; one being a famous eventer who is still training youth
                                    So we continue letting this person off the hook and parents/people continue to ride with the trainer. Perfect example of people either not believing or not caring.


                                    Look at teachers for instance. No social media whatsoever with colleagues or youth. Have I been facebook friends with teachers and professors long after graduation; yes of course.
                                    Are you a teacher? Because I 100% know that isn't a policy in all school districts.


                                    If this was any other business besides the equine industry the current practice of social media use, facebook friends, texts and PMs, would be a major no-no.
                                    Also, not quite accurate. There are plenty of industries/companies. etc that do not consider it a no-no. They consider the abuse of it a no-no. Zappo's encouraged coworkers to be friends outside of work, and that typically includes social media connections and texting.

                                    Additionally, many employers are not dealing with minors, so the rules may be different. Let's also add that an employer's attempt to limit the use of social media can quickly cut into illegal employment practices.

                                    Originally posted by sticky situation
                                    As it’s been said before, most kids aren’t just molested by a random adult out of the blue ... they’re groomed beforehand and there are warning signs of creepy behavior. If a kids recognizes these and tells a parent (or even another adult who isn’t a friend of the potential predator) it hopefully won’t ever get to that point. It’s not a magic bullet, but I’d bet money that GOOD education (not just “don’t talk to strangers and don’t get in the van with the man who offers you candy”)
                                    Yes.

                                    Stranger danger is great for littles, although it usually won't protect them either because so many of the predators/molesters are not strangers. They are parents, boyfriends, siblings, close family friends. In the grand scheme of predatory behaviour, I imagine trainers rank quite low (doesn't mean not to address it, lest any of our dichotomous thinkers feel that is what I'm saying).

                                    Stranger Danger for tweens/teens is lacking. The message is not just they are going to steal you away, but they might be a friend that you trust that wants you to do things that you shouldn't do. If the teen is older, it needs to include messaging that you might WANT to do those things with that person, and/or your body might respond in a way you don't want it to...but it's not going to be a good choice in the long run. Etc. The messaging needs to be age appropriate and targeted.
                                    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                      Is this from the documentary on Netflix? Could you please remind me of the title? I haven’t seen it yet.
                                      It's called The Tale and it's not a documentary, it's based on the author's real life experiences but it is a work of fiction

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by MHM View Post
                                        Is this from the documentary on Netflix? Could you please remind me of the title? I haven’t seen it yet.
                                        I can't remember the title, but yes.

                                        It's called "The Tale" and the journalist is Jennifer Fox.
                                        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                                        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                                        Comment


                                        • ^ Thanks.

                                          I was thinking it was a documentary. The stories about Nassar seemed like they had to be from a work of fiction.

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