Stallion Spotlight

Sandro Hit Standa Eylers

Real Estate Spotlight

DSC_0001
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Can we talk about SafeSport?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by dags View Post
    FWIW, the victims being interviewed generally agree these new regulations don't address the actual problem and would not have prevented the abuse they suffered.
    It might have. They probably weren’t the first nor were they the last.

    ETA: This stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum and it’s never just one victim.
    Last edited by Denali6298; Jun. 3, 2019, 12:29 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by dags View Post

      Just because one considers a "solution" frivolous (at best) does not equate to "wanting people to be sexually abused". Come on, now.

      To band-aids, babies, and bathwater I'd like to add another: Bubble Wrap.

      Even in my most jaded state, I refuse to believe that sexual predators are more rampant than good people, and this pervasive culture of fear is creating some seriously anxious kids. They were born into the post 9/11 era, grew up on active shooter drills, and watched their parents struggle through the recession. They are showing real, clinical signs of chronic anxiety and teen suicide rates are/have been steadily rising. They struggle to manage their own lives and cope with daily adult stressors when they leave home. They are cautious rather than confident when confronted with adversity and generally risk-averse as a whole. Thanks to 24/7 media coverage and general hysteria about everything, they have been made keenly aware of all the potential dangers out there, and that's rather crippling.

      This is a very real thing, and I was struck by a line from a topical interview on NPR this weekend: "We are 20th-century parents giving advice to 21st-century kids. They've inherited a brave new world that we never lived in."

      Nobody wants kids abused, but hyperactive nannying is causing a whole 'nother set of problems...

      Well fancy that, On Point is launching now with an entire episode on the new Safe Sport recommendations, including responses from victims. Victims that told adults what was occuring, and those adults did nothing to stop it.

      Yes to all of this. Awareness is good, encouraging parents to be aware of who their kids are with and that things aren’t always what they seem is important.

      And I think kids should know that predators exist and be taught what to do if they’re in a situation that makes them uncomfortable. But creating this environment where kids should never be out of the parents’ sight and every adult is first and foremost a potential threat is a bad idea.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CanteringCarrot View Post

        Dumb tech question perhaps, but how does the encryption that Whatsapp uses make it easier to communicate privately? In comparison to SMS or other apps.
        A lot of communications are saved to review at a later date. There are some apps that hang their hat on NOT allowing that. WhatsApp is one. Signal is another. And you can bet that predators have no problem getting their targets to use those features of the apps.

        You can still open your kids phone, the app, and directly go to the conversations. Or be included in a group chat and see read receipts (if on).
        Yes...if they are in groups and include you. Do you really think teens tell you everything that is going on in their lives? If they don't want you to know, you won't...and often these predators bank on teens not fully understanding what is happening and thinking they are special and loved and create an us against them environment that is prime for making sure parents are excluded.
        Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
        Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

        Comment


        • For all the nay sayers, what is a better solution? Honest question.

          Comment


          • I was thinking about this whole 'include a parent' while texting thing.

            I am old now so no one has to include my parent in anything, which is a good thing. Because though very tech savvy (at least my father) none of my parents (there are four of them if you count step-parents) text. No amount of convincing has gotten them to do the texting thing.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
              For all the nay sayers, what is a better solution? Honest question.
              Truthfully, in light of the Me Too movement, the public unveiling of dirty deeds everywhere, and the far more open public discourse that unabashedly outs these acts & abusers and says This Is Wrong may have put us further down the path to healing than anyone's had time to measure. The awareness of this problem didn't really exist before. Or if it did, it was closeted out of shame. That layer of criminal protection is being peeled away, and advances in modern communication get a whole lot of the credit for that.

              They are barking up the wrong tree, and it has the potential to cast junior students as potential liabilities not worth the risk, and all adult professionals as suspicious from the start. Those aren't roles I really want to play or perpetuate. They're fear-driven remedies and, I suspect, will prove to be shallow.
              Last edited by dags; Jun. 3, 2019, 03:24 PM. Reason: Add quote to clarify question I am responding to
              EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

              Comment


              • Originally posted by dags View Post
                Truthfully, in light of the Me Too movement, the public unveiling of dirty deeds everywhere, and the far more open public discourse that unabashedly outs these acts & abusers and says This Is Wrong may have put us further down the path to healing than anyone's had time to measure. The awareness of this problem didn't really exist before. Or if it did, it was closeted out of shame. That layer of criminal protection is being peeled away, and advances in modern communication get a whole lot of the credit for that.
                Agreed.

                IMO, we'd be better served by 1)believing and supporting victims, by 2)education campaigns on what predatory behavior looks like, 3)having myriad ways for victims or potential victims to report/find support.

                For so long we've said this type of criminal behavior is 'just how things are' and we've demonized victims who try to report. THAT alone is responsible for so much of what has happened. We tell our women to avoid certain men, instead of saying he's predatory or a harrasser...and DOING something about it. When someone does speak up, we shun them, tell them they must be wrong and make them victims all over again.

                The culture is changing. Kids are understanding what is appropriate and what isn't. They are willing to speak up and say, 'that is not okay!' in a way my generation never was. Continue to change the culture and value girls/woman and give them a voice...and they will change the world WAY more than any rule limiting texting/social media can ever do.

                They are barking up the wrong tree, and it has the potential to cast junior students as potential liabilities not worth the risk, and all adult professionals as suspicious from the start. Those aren't roles I really want to play or perpetuate. They're fear-driven remedies and, I suspect, will prove to be shallow.
                Again, I agree. I appreciate how you've summarized what has been bothering me.
                Last edited by RugBug; Jun. 3, 2019, 03:46 PM.
                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post
                  I have a general question about the group texting thing.

                  Does anyone else have issues with their phone when it comes to group texts. I have two friends who have phones that sometimes do not receive them in a timely manner. That is why I ask. Both have perfectly modern cell phones. Sometimes it is up to 24 hours before the group texts come beeping in all at once. They get non-group texts just fine.
                  Mine does that. On GroupMe and other other apps like that, I won't get notifications and it could be days before I happen to check the app and see I missed a ton of messages. Not really important because it's random groups of friends talking about dumb things, but if I was in an important group chat I would have to remember to check it all the time to make sure I didn't miss anything.

                  Comment


                  • WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

                    Why is all of this stuff falling on trainers? Why aren't parents of minors expected to complete Safe Sport training? Why isn't there a Safe Sport program for minors?

                    How does this protect minors who ride with trainers who don't compete or aren't associated with USEF?

                    What do I do with a 16 year old working student who has trouble with her parents and finds solace at the barn and in working?

                    What do I do when parents what their kids to be more independent and schedule things on their own? What do I do when parents DON'T want to be involved? What do I do when parents WANT me to talk directly to their child about an issue?

                    Back in the day (which wasn't that long ago), if my mom felt there was a seedy character at the barn SHE DIDN'T LEAVE ME THERE ALONE! I had a ton of independence as a teen (and worked at a barn 2 hours away from home on the weekends) but I also knew how to stay out of trouble BECAUSE MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME HOW TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                      For all the nay sayers, what is a better solution? Honest question.
                      Parental involvement.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sp56 View Post
                        WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

                        Why is all of this stuff falling on trainers? Why aren't parents of minors expected to complete Safe Sport training? Why isn't there a Safe Sport program for minors?

                        How does this protect minors who ride with trainers who don't compete or aren't associated with USEF?

                        What do I do with a 16 year old working student who has trouble with her parents and finds solace at the barn and in working?

                        What do I do when parents what their kids to be more independent and schedule things on their own? What do I do when parents DON'T want to be involved? What do I do when parents WANT me to talk directly to their child about an issue?

                        Back in the day (which wasn't that long ago), if my mom felt there was a seedy character at the barn SHE DIDN'T LEAVE ME THERE ALONE! I had a ton of independence as a teen (and worked at a barn 2 hours away from home on the weekends) but I also knew how to stay out of trouble BECAUSE MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME HOW TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.
                        No kidding. I didn't renew my membership this year (my horse retired). So I can talk to the kids, drive them around, have them to my house, text them, message them, etc... and the trainer can't? How does this solve the issue? What if I was a person who chose this barn because of all the little kids running around. This doesn't stop me. Educating parents and children, however, would. Where is the mandatory SafeSport training for the children and parents?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by atl_hunter View Post
                          Where is the mandatory SafeSport training for the children and parents?
                          I seem to recall some discussion of a version of the Safe Sport online course for USEF junior members that was supposed to be ready last fall or last winter. I don’t remember if it was going to be mandatory or optional. Does anyone know if that actually materialized?

                          Obviously it would be a good idea for parents to take the Safe Sport course (for any sport), but it might be hard to require and police it if the parents are not USEF members.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sp56 View Post

                            Parental involvement.
                            Isn't that exactly what USEF has asked trainers to do? Loop in the parents with texts and communications, and don't whisk the kids off to Florida for a month without safeguards?

                            If the policy isn't functional, we all get the intent of the policy. Let's write a better one. Let's consider solutions that work with the suggested policy and help people figure out how to use them.

                            Slack is actually a really good idea because of the way it archives messages and because it's separate from your regular texting. You can do things like set hours to snooze it for notifications. It handles groups really easily. I wouldn't have thought of it for trainers but I think it would work really well for barn communications and has some other flexibility for sharing documents and being accessible from multiple platforms that SMS communication does not.
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by sp56 View Post
                              WHERE ARE THE PARENTS?

                              What do I do with a 16 year old working student who has trouble with her parents and finds solace at the barn and in working?

                              What do I do when parents what their kids to be more independent and schedule things on their own? What do I do when parents DON'T want to be involved? What do I do when parents WANT me to talk directly to their child about an issue?

                              Back in the day (which wasn't that long ago), if my mom felt there was a seedy character at the barn SHE DIDN'T LEAVE ME THERE ALONE! I had a ton of independence as a teen (and worked at a barn 2 hours away from home on the weekends) but I also knew how to stay out of trouble BECAUSE MY MOTHER TAUGHT ME HOW TO STAY OUT OF TROUBLE.
                              Not sure about other States, but in California, If your working student is not being paid, a work permit is not required, however parental written permission is.

                              Work permits are not required for minors who meet all of the following conditions:
                              (a) the minor is not receiving pay or financial reimbursement for services rendered in volunteer services or educational purposes;
                              (b) the minor is not in an employer-employee relationship in accordance with The Fair Labor Standards Act and the minor is an unpaid trainee, volunteer, or in-school placement; and
                              (c) the minor has parental permission and has submitted written evidence thereof with the school district, charter school, or private school of enrollment.

                              A 16 year old working student receiving payment, must comply with your States work permit requirements.

                              Students can absolutely schedule things on their own, you as the trainer, would just copy the parent on all communication. Not hard to do.

                              How would you or your Mom know if there is a “seedy character “ at the barn? What does a “seedy character “ look like? Most sexual assault cases were by trusted adults like coaches, trainers, doctors, etc. These people knew how to groom their victims. What does staying out of trouble have to do with anything? Do you blame the victims, because they did not know how to stay out of trouble? How self-righteous of you.


                              Comment


                              • I'm not going to change anyone's mind on this. Those who disagree will continue to think so.

                                I didn't really want to "go there," but the fact that so many disagree with these type of policies strongly makes me want to point out that it's not just about protecting the minors-- it's also about protecting yourself.

                                As I said earlier, minors have grown up with this climate. The sad part is there is a very small percentage of children and teens who may lie about these things for any number of reasons. No, it doesn't happen frequently, but it unfortunately does happen. How are you going to explain to a jury that those hundreds of text messages sent back and forth between you and the kid on your old, lost phone were only about scheduling lessons and tack choices? How are you going to explain to the jury that the student worked alongside you for free every day all summer under their own volition? How are you going to explain that the two of you went out of town together so the student could have the once in a lifetime opportunity to groom for you at a big horse show? We horse people understand these things; others may not... especially when a child is claiming abuse.

                                I grew up watching our farm's trainer abuse every one of my friends. I had a male track coach in high school who "supervised" us changing in the girls' locker room and invited us to attend sleepovers at his house. Don't even get me started on the experiences of my friends who were alter boys. I watched a fellow teacher be drug out of the school in handcuffs because the S.O.B. did it, too. Yet I also watched a colleague lose a career he loved because a student made false claims. While he was cleared of any wrongdoing, damage was done regardless because he put himself in too many questionable situations that allowed doubt fester.
                                Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by PonyPenny View Post

                                  How would you or your Mom know if there is a “seedy character “ at the barn? What does a “seedy character “ look like? Most sexual assault cases were by trusted adults like coaches, trainers, doctors, etc. These people knew how to groom their victims. What does staying out of trouble have to do with anything? Do you blame the victims, because they did not know how to stay out of trouble? How self-righteous of you.

                                  My mom knew who she trusted and didn't trust because she was around and made a point to be around until she knew the people. If you have a trainer who is telling you that you can't come to your child's shows, lessons, etc, then there's a problem. I spent a lot of time on my own traveling a long distance to the barn and shows as a teen but had a good support group away from home. I never have a problem with parents wanting to hang out at the barn - in fact, I encourage it because I enjoy their company and welcome their questions.

                                  I feel it is unfair to put this much of the burden on trainers. Additionally, this only really affects those who wish to continue to show under USEF.

                                  Really, minors and parents need to be more involved in this process and it shouldn't rest on the backs of the already busy trainers. It would be easy to make parents complete Safe Sport if their minor wanted to compete by requiring they designate a parent and that the parent completes the training online. Again though this only affects those wishing to compete.

                                  I will comply the best I can as a trainer because I want to save my own skin. But I can tell you that I have parents who are disappointed with the new restrictions because they value the professional relationship I have with their children in the manner we have had it. Now I can't drive their kid 4 miles up the road to go school off property without a parent in the car. Luckily they trust the other parents to take their kids and those parents are good people. Some kids will miss out on opportunities because they can't get a ride with another person. That's sad. USEF would rather us put a 13 year old in a car with a 16 year old than have the two of them ride with their trainer together. USEF would rather you put your kid in an uber than get a ride with someone you trust. It's punishing the many for the deeds of the few. I understand the spirit of Safe Sport, and support it in theory, but the application of it is misguided.

                                  Today I saw another trainer on a trail ride with her 11 year old student by themselves. Do I need to report this? Bring it to her attention? We aren't on good terms so it wouldn't be received well. Would it be safer for the girl to go out alone? Or with a teen friend? There wasn't another adult or horse available to go on the trail ride. What do we do if we see a teen in trouble on their own but no one else is around to help? Leave them to figure it out? It all gets really muddled and has too many grey areas.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by sp56 View Post

                                    My mom knew who she trusted and didn't trust because she was around and made a point to be around until she knew the people. If you have a trainer who is telling you that you can't come to your child's shows, lessons, etc, then there's a problem. I spent a lot of time on my own traveling a long distance to the barn and shows as a teen but had a good support group away from home. I never have a problem with parents wanting to hang out at the barn - in fact, I encourage it because I enjoy their company and welcome their questions.

                                    I feel it is unfair to put this much of the burden on trainers. Additionally, this only really affects those who wish to continue to show under USEF.

                                    Really, minors and parents need to be more involved in this process and it shouldn't rest on the backs of the already busy trainers. It would be easy to make parents complete Safe Sport if their minor wanted to compete by requiring they designate a parent and that the parent completes the training online. Again though this only affects those wishing to compete.

                                    I will comply the best I can as a trainer because I want to save my own skin. But I can tell you that I have parents who are disappointed with the new restrictions because they value the professional relationship I have with their children in the manner we have had it. Now I can't drive their kid 4 miles up the road to go school off property without a parent in the car. Luckily they trust the other parents to take their kids and those parents are good people. Some kids will miss out on opportunities because they can't get a ride with another person. That's sad. USEF would rather us put a 13 year old in a car with a 16 year old than have the two of them ride with their trainer together. USEF would rather you put your kid in an uber than get a ride with someone you trust. It's punishing the many for the deeds of the few. I understand the spirit of Safe Sport, and support it in theory, but the application of it is misguided.

                                    Today I saw another trainer on a trail ride with her 11 year old student by themselves. Do I need to report this? Bring it to her attention? We aren't on good terms so it wouldn't be received well. Would it be safer for the girl to go out alone? Or with a teen friend? There wasn't another adult or horse available to go on the trail ride. What do we do if we see a teen in trouble on their own but no one else is around to help? Leave them to figure it out? It all gets really muddled and has too many grey areas.
                                    A) Are all your students home schooled as well? Or do the parents attended school with their kids to vet all the teachers?

                                    B)The parents can give written permission to ride with the trainer or another adult if they can’t be their.

                                    C) Not all parents care as much as your mom did, my mom did, or your students mom did.

                                    D) I feel like you only read the article and not the actual PDF.


                                    Comment


                                    • Ok, so parents can give permission for their kid to travel for competitions ... but from what I can tell from the policies, there is no provision that allows kids to have private riding lessons without being supervised by another adult.

                                      And I’m an adult amateur, but I’m a competing USEF member so I still fall under the policy. What am I supposed to do if I’m at the barn alone and a teenager shows up to ride? There is no one there to “interrupt” our interaction. Is it ok as long as I don’t talk to her or look at her?

                                      I guess the days of being able to hack out with teenage riders at my barn when we’re both there on a nice day are over ... unless I can find a chaperone to make sure I don’t do anything inappropriate while we’re out riding.

                                      And no, I don’t blame victims at all ... but I do blame parents or other adults that all too often knew something wasn’t right but did nothing about it because the trainer/coach/whatever was influential and good at their job. I feel that addressing that situation is far more important than creating a culture where it’s never appropriate for a kid and an adult to interact.

                                      Comment


                                      • More thoughts on "alternative solutions"

                                        As it continues to be pointed out the common thread here is the parents, and not the 60 different sports nationwide that have nothing in common other than an Olympic end goal that 95% of participants don't even bother dreaming about.

                                        What about piano teachers? Tutors? Pastors? The already infamous priests?

                                        I have been pretty pro Safe Sport through all of this, I am not put off by the required training and think it should stay, but regulation in a vacuum makes me twitch.

                                        Every time a membership is issued USEF knows if they have a junior on their hands, as does every other National Governing Body out there. Right then & there parents could be hit with a broad-spectrum education. The online training for themselves, a video to watch with their kid, and a follow-up package mailed to their address for starters. When a kid signs up with another NGB this information transfers, perhaps with a refresher for the parent, or at the minimum a reminder of what happened to all the gymnasts and swimmers et al, what Safe Sport is, and why this education is crucial.

                                        Now the parent is educated when it comes to evaluating the actions of the piano teacher, the tutor, the pastor and the priest. Now the kid's protection extends to all walks of life, not just at their intersection with my career. Now every kid that shows a passing interest in tennis, gymnastics, karate, swimming, track, or any of the other 60 nationally governed sports, and signs up for an NGB membership to compete, has an educated parent at their back. And no fingers of suspicion have to be pointed, with absolutely zero cause, at a known individual in their life.

                                        This is Safe Sport's purview, and in an effort to look proactive they're off-loading the busy work on the NGBs, who in turn are off-loading it on the professionals trying to make a living in their (very different) sports. Which is particularly annoying when SS is the one best positioned to orchestrate & implement a consistent & effective solution.
                                        EHJ | FB | #140 | watch | #insta

                                        Comment


                                        • You guys are nuking this. First of all, you can be in public interruptible areas of the barn. Don’t be be in a windowless room with the door shut. For example don’t hang out in the feed room with the door closed.

                                          If if you want to hack out with teenage riders bring more than one and send a quick message to the parent about it to get their permission. (I cannot for the life of me figure out why you’d want to hack out with teenagers but whatever.). The trainer at a barn I was at tried to get me to take the juniors out on a hack because she never rode outside the ring. That was a hard no since I am not comfortable being responsible for kids if they got hurt being a fellow boarder.

                                          Private lessons can can still happen as last I checked arenas are considered an interruptible place.


                                          dags as already mentioned parents seem to vet piano teachers, tutors and the like more than the riding coach. And yes the trusted pastor or priest.... well most instances of abuse happen with trusted people. Safe Sport is to help mitigate the abuse and force the parents to be more involved. Sports is really the only avenue that parents don’t do as much checking as a babysitter or tutor.

                                          ETA: Maybe I have always been around involved parents and strict parents, but when I was working at as a BM and instructor I always checked with the parents if trail rides were okay. The parents always asked me if I could give their kid a ride. On the rare occasion it was the kid asking, I made them call or text their parents. It was never about safe sport issues rather just letting the parents know what where their kid was and what they wanted to do. I was not the parent so I was not going to make parental decisions. To me it’s common curtesy to let the parents know. Cuz guess what sometimes they said no to the ride home, or the hack or whatever the heck it was.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X