Sport Horse Spotlight

0201171029b-1

Real Estate Spotlight

Birman1

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Can we talk about SafeSport?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

    This is an interesting way to twist this.

    Why is it wrong to give the kids a better education?

    If it takes a village, that village includes everyone.

    This system is ignoring one of the biggest pieces, educating the people it is trying to protect.
    Educating kids is literally such a great idea that we do it already. But there is not a way to teach people to not be sexually abused because it is not something they do to themselves. It’s something that’s done to them by abusive people.

    Abusive people gravitate to environments where the consequences of being accused of abusing someone are less than the consequences of making the accusation. The way to stop them I should to hold abusers accountable. And while I think SafeSport is inadequate, the social media and supervision rules it has proposed are part of an effort to set clear boundaries and hold people accountable for behavior that can lead to abuse and exploitation before they abuse a minor.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by EllenMCM View Post

      So what does good education look like?
      A lot more comprehensive and specific. Teach kids about grooming and ways to recognize that it may be happening. Talk about specific things that predators may say (asking kids to “keep secrets” from parents, implying that they have a “special” relationship, etc.) Teach all ages of kids, but tailor it to the specific age group and the particular concerns that may affect them.

      I’ll be honest, I don’t have kids so I don’t know exactly what they’re taught about this in school these days. I know that when I was a kid (I’m 35 now, so it was a while ago but not totally in the dark ages) they taught us a little of the basic stranger danger and good touch/bad touch stuff at school and that was it. My parents did talk to my sister and me about it more on their own.

      Regardless of how much education kids receive on it through schools and parents these days, it seems that USEF has categorically avoided addressing educating kids in any way while making sure every other imaginable box is checked.

      Comment


      • The point of these kinds of policies is not to necessarily stop abusers from doing the things that are prohibited in the policy, but to change our culture so that it's easier to distinguish grooming behaviors. Much like gymnastics, in our culture it's currently normal for kids to be alone with adult coaches who have a lot of power over them, for parents to unquestioningly follow those coaches' recommendations, and for communications between adult coach and kid to be private. It's not out of the question for kids to text coaches late at night and vice versa, for minors and coaches to share a hotel room/condo/RV for weeks on end, for friendships to form between adults and minors. Normally those things are innocent, but they're also powerful tactics for predators to create closeness and trust with those they intend to abuse.

        So when all that seems normal in our sport, how does an outside observer tell when it's just the way the sport is vs. when it's a bad actor attempting to groom a potential victim? For that matter, how does a 13 year old tell the difference from inside the situation, when it's someone they trust and admire and want to please? When our norms allow the line between authority figure and friend to blur, it's all too easy for predators to take advantage. Boundaries get crossed inch by inch, not mile by mile, so if you widen the gulf between acceptable and unacceptable behavior, it's easier to identify when it's wrong. Changing the norms so that it doesn't feel right for trainers to contact minors directly without another adult involved will make it easier for kids, parents, and sympathetic bystanders to step in when a line is crossed.

        We're in a moment of reckoning where we're being asked from outside to change our norms, and that is really uncomfortable and inconvenient for the folks who are not abusers. I'm not sure the MAAP policies are all perfectly suited to our sport, but there is no doubt in my mind that the effort to force our culture to become more professional will help kids stay safer. Culture shifts are painful, and we might have some missteps along the way, but I can't think of anything more important than this.

        I would heartily recommend watching "At the Heart of Gold" on HBO if you can; it's a very well done documentary about the Larry Nassar case. The segment fairly early on about how he gave out his personal cell number, added gymnasts on facebook and instagram, and generally worked to become a trusted friend and advisor in a harsh environment rang very familiar. None of those behaviors are inherently predatory, but they sure as hell made it easy for Nassar to create a hidden shadowland where he could take advantage of athlete and parent trust.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post


          Regardless of how much education kids receive on it through schools and parents these days, it seems that USEF has categorically avoided addressing educating kids in any way while making sure every other imaginable box is checked.
          Coming to the USEF near you - Safe Sport education for juniors. Launching week of June 12. Center for Safe Sport finally finished the training program for youths and made it available. Remember, USEF doesn’t create this stuff, they just make sure it is available and taken.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by 541hunter View Post
            Changing the norms so that it doesn't feel right for trainers to contact minors directly without another adult involved will make it easier for kids, parents, and sympathetic bystanders to step in when a line is crossed.
            I think this is the first statement that has made sense to me. Thank you.

            Originally posted by 541hunter View Post
            I would heartily recommend watching "At the Heart of Gold" on HBO if you can; it's a very well done documentary about the Larry Nassar case. The segment fairly early on about how he gave out his personal cell number, added gymnasts on facebook and instagram, and generally worked to become a trusted friend and advisor in a harsh environment rang very familiar. None of those behaviors are inherently predatory, but they sure as hell made it easy for Nassar to create a hidden shadowland where he could take advantage of athlete and parent trust.
            I second this recommendation. It's heartbreaking. It also drives home that bystanders need to speak up. And people need to believe victims. The guilt that so many of the gymnasts are carrying because they didn't say anything and the feel responsible for the ones that came after. The anger of the ones that did say something but weren't believed.

            Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
            Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Tackpud View Post

              Coming to the USEF near you - Safe Sport education for juniors. Launching week of June 12. Center for Safe Sport finally finished the training program for youths and made it available. Remember, USEF doesn’t create this stuff, they just make sure it is available and taken.
              I’m glad to see that they didn’t totally leave the kids out of the loop.

              I still don’t agree with some of the other policies, nor have I found an answer to what I’m supposed to do (as an amateur USEF member) if I’m the only one at the barn when a 16 or 17 year old kid shows up to ride (do I have to leave? Text the kid’s mom to see if it’s ok if I’m alone with their child? Just stay at the other end of the barn and not interact with them? Get permission slips from all the parents ahead of time in case I somehow end up alone with their kid?)

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                I think this is the first statement that has made sense to me. Thank you.

                I second this recommendation. It's heartbreaking. It also drives home that bystanders need to speak up. And people need to believe victims. The guilt that so many of the gymnasts are carrying because they didn't say anything and the feel responsible for the ones that came after. The anger of the ones that did say something but weren't believed.
                It's such a complicated topic and we're (like, the world in general, not even just the equestrian community) so early in the process that it's hard to identify what's going to work for sure. Like, the Center for SafeSport was created in 2017. That's hardly even time to gather the bare minimum of data. It'll be years before we know what really works and what doesn't. But I hope the equestrian community can really rally around the cause, even (and especially!) when we disagree with the exact tactics SafeSport is implementing. I'd like to see us be a model for individual sports (which I feel have different needs than team sports). It's an emotional topic so I'm not surprised to see tensions running high but I am a little discouraged at how many people seem to say the fight isn't worth having because predators gonna prey and why should we change because they suck?

                Anyway. Stream of consciousness on a Tuesday afternoon, not directed at you specifically RugBug. I work in higher ed where this topic has been VERY hot for a while, and we certainly haven't done a great job at addressing it either. I hope the debate around SafeSport leads to super cutting edge and effective policies.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TooManyBays View Post
                  Ok, I’ve thought about these new rules over the past few days and have decided they don’t address the issue.
                  The problem with these rules is they make life hard for those who aren’t abusing children, but don’t really effect those that are. Abuse happened before instant communication. It happens even when parents sign permission slips, even when minors don’t get in cars with adults. The problem here is that a person abusing a child will still do these things. They will still have the kid get in the car ‘just this once’. They will still abuse them in an empty barn. They will still antagonize them, maybe on a social media site that doesn’t track messages, maybe just in person. It will still happen.
                  Let me make a suggestion of a way that it really does help.

                  So in my era, if I was alone with an adult in a locked tackroom and I said something terrible happened, the onus would be on me to prove it, and most likely, I wouldn't be able to. Merely by bringing the accusation I'd be shamed, at best. It would be he-said-she-said and the loser would be me. I wouldn't report it and it could happen to a lot of people.

                  With these rules, the burden of proof changes. Having an adult hold me alone in a locked tackroom is itself a violation. Now the onus is on the adult to prove that the worst didn't happen. It creates some options for corrective action if the situation is murky (say I was locked in and felt uncomfortable, but there was no sexual contact) and some opportunities for raised suspicion of problem individuals. Maybe there's no charge here, but maybe it's logged as evidence that is of use when another student reports a bigger problem.

                  I recognize, by the way, that this changing burden of proof is exactly what so many people on this thread hate about it.

                  There are some things that are frustrating. The car thing is one of the biggest. I think the best solution there is just parental permission. I know I'm aware that there are parents in my community who don't want their kids driving with certain adults because they don't think those adults are safe drivers, not because they're worried about abuse.
                  If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post
                    TooManyBays - I agree that educating the children would be a much better solution. And as far as I know that hasn’t really even factored in to anything SafeSport has done so far - Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think kids under 18 even need to take any online training, just parents.
                    In general, this kind of education is part of public school curriculum, specifically, part of the age-appropriate health and sexual education units that are sprinkled through K-12. So the kids are already getting this.

                    I'm not against a horse-specific training as part of USEF/SafeSport in addition, but I don't fault them for piloting it with adults for all kinds of logistical reasons.

                    But adults, this is training that some of us have never had. Some of us have had various kinds of harassment training as part of our responsibilities as volunteers or our corporate jobs, but there are a lot of people in the horse world decades out of any formal schooling who have never worked with any kind of HR department and have never been through any trainings. So, I'm glad to see it, and I'd like to see more, even though they seem like busywork compliance. For example, I think having ethics training for equine professionals would only benefit the horse world.
                    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by poltroon View Post
                      Let me make a suggestion of a way that it really does help.

                      So in my era, if I was alone with an adult in a locked tackroom and I said something terrible happened, the onus would be on me to prove it, and most likely, I wouldn't be able to. Merely by bringing the accusation I'd be shamed, at best. It would be he-said-she-said and the loser would be me. I wouldn't report it and it could happen to a lot of people.

                      With these rules, the burden of proof changes. Having an adult hold me alone in a locked tackroom is itself a violation. Now the onus is on the adult to prove that the worst didn't happen. It creates some options for corrective action if the situation is murky (say I was locked in and felt uncomfortable, but there was no sexual contact) and some opportunities for raised suspicion of problem individuals. Maybe there's no charge here, but maybe it's logged as evidence that is of use when another student reports a bigger problem.
                      This is a side of things I hadn't mulled over yet, and one that makes a massive difference for people trying to sound the alarm. Thanks poltroon, I'm tucking that nugget away for future discussions.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 541hunter View Post
                        The point of these kinds of policies is not to necessarily stop abusers from doing the things that are prohibited in the policy, but to change our culture so that it's easier to distinguish grooming behaviors. Much like gymnastics, in our culture it's currently normal for kids to be alone with adult coaches who have a lot of power over them, for parents to unquestioningly follow those coaches' recommendations, and for communications between adult coach and kid to be private. It's not out of the question for kids to text coaches late at night and vice versa, for minors and coaches to share a hotel room/condo/RV for weeks on end, for friendships to form between adults and minors. Normally those things are innocent, but they're also powerful tactics for predators to create closeness and trust with those they intend to abuse.

                        So when all that seems normal in our sport, how does an outside observer tell when it's just the way the sport is vs. when it's a bad actor attempting to groom a potential victim? For that matter, how does a 13 year old tell the difference from inside the situation, when it's someone they trust and admire and want to please? When our norms allow the line between authority figure and friend to blur, it's all too easy for predators to take advantage. Boundaries get crossed inch by inch, not mile by mile, so if you widen the gulf between acceptable and unacceptable behavior, it's easier to identify when it's wrong. Changing the norms so that it doesn't feel right for trainers to contact minors directly without another adult involved will make it easier for kids, parents, and sympathetic bystanders to step in when a line is crossed.

                        We're in a moment of reckoning where we're being asked from outside to change our norms, and that is really uncomfortable and inconvenient for the folks who are not abusers. I'm not sure the MAAP policies are all perfectly suited to our sport, but there is no doubt in my mind that the effort to force our culture to become more professional will help kids stay safer. Culture shifts are painful, and we might have some missteps along the way, but I can't think of anything more important than this.

                        I would heartily recommend watching "At the Heart of Gold" on HBO if you can; it's a very well done documentary about the Larry Nassar case. The segment fairly early on about how he gave out his personal cell number, added gymnasts on facebook and instagram, and generally worked to become a trusted friend and advisor in a harsh environment rang very familiar. None of those behaviors are inherently predatory, but they sure as hell made it easy for Nassar to create a hidden shadowland where he could take advantage of athlete and parent trust.
                        I have to admit, part of the reason that I dislike the idea of such a sweeping culture change is that I was one of those “barn rat” kids. As soon as I could drive I spent most of every day at the barn, riding my own horse and anything else I could get my hands on and helping out around the barn for no reason other than because I wanted to. And my trainer was like a big sister to me. I used to ride along with her when she went to teach other barns and watch lessons and help set fences so I could learn. And then when I was a little older (20ish) there was a Pony Club kid who was 13 or 14 who didn’t have a trailer and I would haul her pony to lessons and Pony Club rallies, and she’d ride along with me. We’re still friends 15 years later. In Pony Club we would often have teams with kids anywhere 15 to 20 that hung out together because they were in the same club (and let’s be honest, most 20-year-olds have more in common with a 15-year-old than a 40-year-old, even though they’re technically adults).

                        All of these things are good experiences that I look back on, and all would now be considered questionable or inappropriate in the “new culture” they’re trying to create. And I’m not convinced that creating a culture in which any sort of friendship or mentorship between an adult and a kid beyond strict business transactions is an ideal to strive toward.
                        Last edited by Sticky Situation; Jun. 4, 2019, 07:41 PM. Reason: Left out a word

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sticky Situation View Post

                          I have to admit, part of the reason that I dislike the idea of such a sweeping culture change is that I was one of those “barn rat” kids. As soon as I could drive I spent most of every day at the barn, riding my own horse and anything else I could get my hands on and helping out around the barn for no reason other than because I wanted to. And my trainer was like a big sister to me. I used to ride along with her when she went to teach other barns and watch lessons and help set fences so I could learn. And then when I was a little older (20ish) there was a Pony Club kid who was 13 or 14 who didn’t have a trailer and I would haul her pony to lessons and Pony Club rallies, and she’d ride along with me. We’re still friends 15 years later. In Pony Club we would often have teams with kids anywhere 15 to 20 that hung out together because they were in the same club (and let’s be honest, most 20-year-olds have more in common with a 15-year-old than a 40-year-old, even though they’re technically adults).

                          All of these things are good experiences that I look back on, and all would now be considered questionable or inappropriate in the “new culture” they’re trying to create. And I’m not convinced that creating a culture in which any sort of friendship or mentorship between an adult and a kid beyond strict business transactions is an ideal to strive toward.
                          And maybe that's a generational difference for me, because I grew up in an era where some of these changes were taking shape with the general public (I'm 28), but I don't see this as preventing mentorship opportunities. Mentorship is different from friendship. I have professional mentors, but I don't necessarily hang with them on the weekends, and I'm an adult. I had very impactful relationships with teachers in high school and middle school, and had many one-on-one heart to hearts with them, but those conversations happened where others could see us if they walked by and there was a clear line for what was appropriate and what was not. Most of what you're describing isn't being prevented in the new policies, because it's happening in the open vs. behind closed doors. My understanding is that as long as you're not closed off (i.e., someone going about their normal business could walk in and see what's going on), you're ok, unless you're in a position of power like the boss of a working student or coach to an athlete.

                          I've also lived a barn rat life, and had many friendships with kids/teens at my barn as an adult (one who I met when I was 19 and she was 9/10 is a bridesmaid in my wedding this fall), so I get the value there. But I'm also not a coach in the kind of formal position of power that relationship creates. That relationship dynamic is super important to the kind of abuse of power in the Nassar case (and many like it). In my field the parallel is grad students with their faculty advisor. There has to be clearer boundaries in those relationships because it's way to easy for abusers to take advantage of murky lines.

                          Comment


                          • Here the link to the announcement about Safe Sport training for kids:

                            https://www.usef.org/media/press-rel...)&utm_content=

                            Comment


                            • poltroon I think your locked tackroom scenario is an excellent way of summing up what the new policies are attempting to do--effectively prohibiting situations where abuse may be likely to occur and putting greater onus on adults to protect, versus teens to prove something happened.

                              Like I said, I'm still mulling over these issues in my mind (I'm an adult, childless, not a coach, but this is an issue very near and dear to my heart, so I am interested), it will be interesting to see how implementation and enforcement is put into place and what additional policies are needed to further protect children and teens.

                              re: parents--I agree there is definitely a something lost/something gained aspect to this. I do work with teens in one of my jobs,and I agree that something has been lost regarding childhood independence that was already beginning to ebb away when I was young, and is much worse now in the current generation. On the other hand, the old model of parents looking the other way, so long as the teen said nothing, was busy, and winning (perhaps even trusting coaches more than teens if the kid complained about anything) resulted in pretty problematic situations (not just physical abuse, but also emotional abuse).
                              Check out the latest Fortune's Fool novel, Courage to the Sticking Place!

                              Comment


                              • 541hunter it’s not a generation thing. I’m close in age to sticky situation. What I think it is, is life experiences. I had great experiences being a barn rat, riding my bike everywhere, even the next town over.

                                I can’t, though, recall a time where I was alone at the barn with just one person. It was a busy show barn and people, kids, parents were always around.

                                The difference is, as an adult I have been forced go through training annually on human trafficking, rape, sexual assault etc for work because of my chosen profession. (Heck I just got an email today about being aware of human trafficking and date rape drugs for my next trip. This trip is in the US.)

                                I also see the aftermath of such abuse damn near right after it happens. It’s gut wrenching.

                                I have had to comply with many of these policies with social media, texting etc. within the rank structure. They do make the conversation easier for victims. They do change the culture of rape and sexual assault as well has the culture for women in general.

                                It’s great people want to make the training and education better. It’s great that they want more awareness. The problem I have had with this whole thread is the resistance to the attempts to do this and the resistance to change the culture because people see the culture through their lens of good experiences while being removed from the wake of destruction JW left in his path. Yes they are sympathetic. But they don’t think it could happen at their barn, with their trainer.

                                I obviously work on a military base. We had an active shooter last month where a young woman was shot about 9 times. Last week we had a mass shooting here in town. I have always been far removed from such things. Sooner or later it will come home and I hope this training will give everyone the tools to navigate it when it does.

                                Comment


                                • I'll add one more piece because it does bother me that it's being left out of a lot of the discussion, especially in the "well just tell the kids," "teach them." Of course parents and mentors should instill the values on their children. And yes, youth are still very responsible for the actions they make. There are legal ramifications for children committing crimes.

                                  However, when a child commits a crime is not the evidence that the child is under 18 taken into consideration? Yes. Why? Because a child, junior, does not have the complete maturity-capabilities of an adult. Do we consider some children more mature than some adults we pass in the street? Yes. At the tick of 19 does the human's brain immediately transfer to 'adulthood'? No. BUT, and this is the MOST important factor because it essentially relates to whether you think all children should be tried for crimes like adults, as an adolescent a junior's brain is more susceptible. It's why we have drinking laws, tobacco laws, renting a beach house must have a resident over 25. Because our society has determined that a younger human's brain is more susceptible. Of course, in many cases kids can and do break those above rules, and they can do lots of things that adults do and no harm will ever come. BUT, a child/junior is still more susceptible and that is what Safe Sport is trying to protect.

                                  I am not saying that at 18 my Mom wouldn't have grounded me for running off with a handsome 25yo riding instructor, or I wouldn't have known better than to participate in unhealthy activities. I would have. But, had the same opportunities came about when I was 35 compared to 16 would I have chosen them? Probably not. Why? Because at 35 I should be an adult, at 16 I'm not.

                                  So, after that, I just don't see why one other adult can't be cc'ed in communication.

                                  Comment


                                  • If we’re going to discuss life experiences ... I work in healthcare and emergency medical services. I also have mandatory annual training in child abuse, including sexual abuse; intimate partner violence; sexual harassment in the workplace etc ... not counting the mandatory (and largely redundant) SafeSport education in order to participate in my chosen hobby. I also have regular background checks and child abuse clearances performed on me as a condition of employment.

                                    I’ve seen firsthand and cared for people, including children, who have been victimized by sick, disgusting individuals; the laws and rules in place to prevent said individuals from harming other people didn’t stop them, because such people don’t care or believe they’re above the law.

                                    I will not be convinced that painting all adult/child interactions in a light of inappropriateness and suspicion first and foremost is a good idea. Don’t forget, even though there have been a number of abuses in equestrian sports, children as still far more likely to be abused or molested by a family member or romantic partner of a family member. Sometimes having a trusted adult outside the family who isn’t acting solely under the parents’ supervision could even a positive thing, because kids may be willing to talk to them about things they are afraid to bring up to a parent, teacher, or traditional authority figure. And the vast majority of adults are NOT child predators.

                                    As someone else already stated before me in this thread, I think we’re throwing out quite a few babies with the bath water here.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Denali6298 View Post
                                      It’s great people want to make the training and education better. It’s great that they want more awareness. The problem I have had with this whole thread is the resistance to the attempts to do this and the resistance to change the culture because people see the culture through their lens of good experiences while being removed from the wake of destruction JW left in his path. Yes they are sympathetic. But they don’t think it could happen at their barn, with their trainer.
                                      Yes, yes, yes, a million times yes. I've noticed the same in many Facebook conversations I've been watching about the new policies. I always think, that's great you (general) had a nice experience being alone with your trainer for days on end as a 10 year old (or whatever). I'm so glad for you. Would that everyone had a trainer that was genuinely interested in their wellbeing. But we know that's not the case. I keep seeing the excuse "well that won't prevent ALL abuse" with examples of scenarios various policies wouldn't stop from happening, which is so depressing to me. It seems to me that the US Center for SafeSport is taking a multilateral approach to the issue, rolling out new policies and trainings when they're ready to hopefully create the broadest safety net possible. So what if we can't prevent every instance of abuse, if we can at least reduce the number significantly? The perfect is the enemy of the good.

                                      Comment


                                      • Sticky Situation So why are you so reticent? Why with your background can you not come up with something better? Really what exactly is it that you would change about the training itself and most importantly the execution?

                                        Me, I would give it a chance and tailor it once the holes are apparent.

                                        Me, I would charge the adults the second they uttered the words, “they said something but I didn’t believe them.”

                                        My god in your profession you should be on board. But your not. That, wow.

                                        ETA: For the record I do not have the strength to do your job. I couldn’t imagine going to work and seeing what you see.

                                        Comment


                                        • 541hunter ... I appreciate your thoughtful responses, even though our opinions on the topic are different.

                                          You’re right that friendship and mentorship are not one and the same ... but I believe that there is no reason they need to be mutually exclusive, either.

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X