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Dog attack at Saugerties

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  • Originally posted by evilc123 View Post
    Like...what is the purpose of the daisycutting movement? And how are some of the top hunter riders winning huge classes with terrible form in a judged setting?
    The daisy cutting movement is supposed to be more comfortable for the rider, and more energy efficient for the horse, particularly when you are out all day following the hounds across the countryside.

    The top hunter riders can win hunter classes in any form they like, since the class is judged on the style of the HORSE. Not the style of the rider.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by staceymc View Post

      Also, how in the world did we end up getting to hunter bashing (again) from a post about a dog attack....
      I was wondering the same thing.

      Comment


      • Horrible dog attack by aggressive unleashed dog>>>>Dogs are a nuisance at shows, especially the unleashed and/or aggressive ones>>>>>>>Dogs should be banned at horses shows>>>>>Hunters should tolerate unleashed dogs but don't because modern hunters suck.

        You're welcome,

        Dept. of useless explanations.
        The plural of anecdote is not data.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post
          I didn't see it as bashing...it was a genuine question. Like, here is my experience with hunters:

          I've known only a couple of people that ride hunters. Every one of them was rich, entitled, snobbish (and looked down on "cheap" horses as well), with an expensive horse, and to be honest I hated the way they jumped. The rider, not the horse. The horses are all incredibly lovely. The "hunter perch" though, to me, just looks awful and dangerous. And that doesn't mean I necessarily think all hunters are like that, but when the only ones you have met are, it tends to color the way you look at the sport in general. I also used to think anyone that rode dressage was boring, snobby, and couldn't get out of their horses' mouths, eventers were literally insane (verdict still stands on that one ), and other dumb things that I changed my mind on when I learned about them.

          I know it's incredibly difficult to ride a perfect round with perfect changes, perfect spots to every jump, a steady rhythm and a relaxed horse. The skill involved isn't a question at all. It was more the other things that seem to go along with it as well. And I thought the question wasn't "This sport sucks", but "This is how I have seen it, tell me otherwise because I don't actually know".

          Back on topic, though...I'm honestly not sure what a good solution would be. I love having the well-behaved dogs around, but the disobedient ones make it miserable and honestly dangerous. I watched a video yesterday of a dog, that had a leash but had just gotten loose, chasing a horse down that was running cross country. It was lucky it wasn't stepped on, it was right on the horse's legs. The easiest would be to ban dogs like they do at a lot of schooling shows around here, but that wouldn't be a popular decision.
          Buck's XC at Rolex? Top rider, at the top of the sport, at the top event in the US, and someone's loose dog on xc chased him through the sunken road, which has eaten many a horses and riders. I think it happened to him again at a different FEI event, too!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by EVneo View Post

            Buck's XC at Rolex? Top rider, at the top of the sport, at the top event in the US, and someone's loose dog on xc chased him through the sunken road, which has eaten many a horses and riders. I think it happened to him again at a different FEI event, too!
            It was actually one overseas, Gatcombe I think, in 2016? But jeez, I would be incredibly pissed if I was running, well, any event at all but especially an FEI event and a dog threw off the groove of my round and endangered me and my horse. The rider of this horse had to pull up for a second so someone could grab the dog, then continue on.

            You know the owner was probably super embarrassed too. Or at least I hope they were, they should be.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
              Horrible dog attack by aggressive unleashed dog>>>>Dogs are a nuisance at shows, especially the unleashed and/or aggressive ones>>>>>>>Dogs should be banned at horses shows>>>>>Hunters should tolerate unleashed dogs but don't because modern hunters suck.

              You're welcome,

              Dept. of useless explanations.

              Maybe this is why this trainer has a history of her aggressive dogs attacking other dogs or people and nobody gives a crap?

              We aren't talking about dogs, or repeat offenders, we have been easily distracted by someone complaining about how show hunters are real hunters.
              http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • Am I to understand, that based on that FB post, the people at HITS paid the bills?

                I am reading that TOM (of HITS) said there had never been any complaints about this dog previously.

                Then down in the comments

                "The same exact dog attacked two smaller dogs on the HITS Saugerties property in July 2017 in front of Tent 22. Saugerties Police has a report and photographs in case Tom needs his memory refreshed."
                http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                Comment


                • For me, it's more that I could conceivably "make it" on a decent horse in eventing or show jumping. That decent horse could be $500 if I'm super lucky. More likely it'll be in the $10k-20k range. But I'm going to get laughed out of the Hunters ring on anything other than a $100k unicorn.

                  On topic: I like dogs. But you know what I love? Going out without my kids and/or an animal in tow. (Helped that all of our dogs were weirdos that didn't enjoy riding in the car.!) Seriously. I'm a single parent. My kids have pets that stay home when they go to their dad's. I never have time where I'm not responsible for keeping a sentient being alive. Going out to Target alone is relaxing for me. I'm not schlepping a dog with me to a horse show. I'm busy enough at those without having to worry about a dog.

                  Comment


                  • oh, I'd be beating someones ass!
                    \"it\'s not what you win, but who you beat\"
                    Member of Acrylic Nail,Horseless Riders,Mommies, and Pennsylvania Cliques!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                      Am I to understand, that based on that FB post, the people at HITS paid the bills?

                      I am reading that TOM (of HITS) said there had never been any complaints about this dog previously.

                      Then down in the comments

                      "The same exact dog attacked two smaller dogs on the HITS Saugerties property in July 2017 in front of Tent 22. Saugerties Police has a report and photographs in case Tom needs his memory refreshed."
                      And this is why it is so, so, so important to file complaints. Even if nothing can be done in the moment, getting appropriate documentation to cite down the line when (so tragically) the same issue occurs, it creates a pattern that can and should be used to take action against the individuals responsible.

                      Good reminder to all of us this horse show season. File complaints with appropriate authorities and do so in a way that leaves a paper trail. Get confirmation of it being received if you're not filing with police - save those emails if it's to show management. etc.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mvp View Post

                        Not for nuthin' but an FEI dressage horse is exactly the one you'd want to ride into battle. In fact, that's what dressage was created for-- producing war horses. And you'd certainly choose the FEI warhorse over the First Level one if your life was on the line!
                        Yup! There's a perfect demo of how dressage worked in combat in Kenneth Branagh's movie of Henry V. During the big battle of Agincourt scene, the camera starts panning back and forth from each main character. You see the guy I'll call the flag bearer (because I have no clue what he's actually called!) holding the English army's line. His horse is piaffing. And quite nicely, I might add, because the horse is perfectly synched with the music. And when Henry charges out of the gates of the city of Harfleur after torching it, he gets his horse to hold still just yards from the menacing flames long enough to urge his army, "Once more unto the breach, my friends" by executing a pesade. I reckon the producers hired actual dressage riders and horses for the sake of authenticity. It never occurred to me before but Henry's gleaming white charger is likely a Lippenzaner or PRE.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Edre View Post

                          And this is why it is so, so, so important to file complaints. Even if nothing can be done in the moment, getting appropriate documentation to cite down the line when (so tragically) the same issue occurs, it creates a pattern that can and should be used to take action against the individuals responsible.

                          Good reminder to all of us this horse show season. File complaints with appropriate authorities and do so in a way that leaves a paper trail. Get confirmation of it being received if you're not filing with police - save those emails if it's to show management. etc.
                          Could not agree more. Even if there's a dog that attacks and no one is hurt, file a report so there's a paper trail. Too many people cannot be responsible for their animals. The next time, there may be injuries.
                          ~Veronica
                          "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                          http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by cnm161 View Post
                            Snipped:



                            In the age of specialized breeding programs for horse sports, it's exceptionally unusual for a $500 anything to reach the top level of any sport. Even, yes, eventing-- although it does have the fewest breeders specializing in it (possibly because there are OTTBs available for relatively low upfront cost as compared to breeding WBs). Although ~ 20% of the LRK3DE starters were TBs this year. I didn't vet how many were OTTBs.

                            Articles are published about horses like Galloway Sunrise because those stories are rare, not because they are typical.
                            It is not that unusual in eventing, because a lot of the horses are OTTBs and OTTBs rarely go for much more than $2k... It is unusual in other disciplines, though. I really don't think eventing is as "easy" to breed for as other disciplines (easy being subjective - we all know breeding is hard) which is why there are so few horses purpose-bred vs found with potential doing the ULs.

                            There's been several articles in COTH now, about UL eventers being bought for pennies early in their career. I believe AP Prime was one they did an article on, $500 or so.
                            AETERNUM VALE, INVICTUS - 7/10/2012

                            Comment


                            • More on the myth of the $500 OTTB. I attended a 4* jumping competition this weekend. 32 riders, representing 7 - 10 countries - US, Canada, Ireland, Great Britain, Columbia, Switzerland, Chile - a couple other that I'd have to review the prize list to remember. Multiple former Olympians in the class.

                              Of the 32 horses competing, wanna guess what the ratio of warmblood to TB was?

                              32 - 0. All warmbloods, with German warmbloods (Hannoverian, Holsteiner, Oldenburg, Mecklenberg) predominating.

                              When I last showed jumpers (which was a long time ago); I showed an OTTB in the 3'6" and 3'9" divisions (it was so long ago that they hadn't converted the heights to meters yet) and I was in the minority even back then. And as the height of the fences and the competitiveness of the classes went up, so did the number of WBs.
                              The plural of anecdote is not data.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by McGurk View Post
                                More on the myth of the $500 OTTB. I attended a 4* jumping competition this weekend. 32 riders, representing 7 - 10 countries - US, Canada, Ireland, Great Britain, Columbia, Switzerland, Chile - a couple other that I'd have to review the prize list to remember. Multiple former Olympians in the class.

                                Of the 32 horses competing, wanna guess what the ratio of warmblood to TB was?

                                32 - 0. All warmbloods, with German warmbloods (Hannoverian, Holsteiner, Oldenburg, Mecklenberg) predominating.

                                When I last showed jumpers (which was a long time ago); I showed an OTTB in the 3'6" and 3'9" divisions (it was so long ago that they hadn't converted the heights to meters yet) and I was in the minority even back then. And as the height of the fences and the competitiveness of the classes went up, so did the number of WBs.
                                I don't disagree that could be the case. But does that speak to the suitability or lack thereof of TBs for showjumping? Or that there's more profit in WB sales? Or that fewer people are skilled at retraining OTTB ? None? Some combination of all 3?

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Wanderosa View Post

                                  I don't disagree that could be the case. But does that speak to the suitability or lack thereof of TBs for showjumping? Or that there's more profit in WB sales? Or that fewer people are skilled at retraining OTTB ? None? Some combination of all 3?
                                  I feel like it's the fact that there is more profit in warmbloods, and it takes more time to bring along an OTTB. There usually are OTTBs at top level competitions eventing. I'm kind of shocked to hear of one that didn't have any full thoroughbreds, that's not as common.

                                  Comment


                                  • Wanderosa,

                                    I'm going to loosely paraphrase Denny Emerson on this one. Back in the heyday of TB sport horses 1.) there were very few purpose bred American sporthorses 2.) it was much more difficult to import from Europe and 3.) there was a "filtering" system in place, that is, a lot of horse dealers who would buy up large groups of OTTBS, put 30 - 90 days on them, run them through a jumping chute, weed out the ones that were obviously unsuitable, sell some of the good ones, continue to develop some of the ones with promise.

                                    That filtering system no longer exists today; partly because of lack of patience, partly because no one has the stomach for what happens to horses that were filtered out by that process/the "rescue" mentality and partly because of the growth of occasional amateur riders who don't want to deal with TB temperament.

                                    If you follow Denny of FB you can read it "from the horse's mouth", so to speak.
                                    The plural of anecdote is not data.

                                    Comment


                                    • McGurk the "jumping competition" you were referencing from this weekend was GP jumpers, not eventing, right?

                                      Comment


                                      • evilc123, Correct.

                                        ETA: Denny Emerson also credits the change from long format to short format in eventing with diminishing the role of TBs. Once you take away the endurance component and increase the importance of the dressage score; warmbloods become more desirable for eventing,
                                        The plural of anecdote is not data.

                                        Comment


                                        • Look at the WB pedigrees and see how many have TB up close, particularly the dam sire.
                                          "Good young horses are bred, but good advanced horses are trained" Sam Griffiths

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