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Doesn't this seem silly?

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  • Doesn't this seem silly?

    There is a rider at my barn who still shows as a junior (show age 17) yet shows in FEI classes as 19. This seems silly to me, even though I know it's legit. Thoughts?
    When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

  • #2
    Which part is silly?

    Anyhow, is the point that she shows in both junior and FEI open classes? I don't quite see the problem. Presumably she isn't lying about her age in either venue?

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    • #3
      No

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      • #4
        Good on her!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
          There is a rider at my barn who still shows as a junior (show age 17) yet shows in FEI classes as 19. This seems silly to me, even though I know it's legit. Thoughts?
          I don’t get it—is she (assuming female for convenience) lying about her age for one organization? She can’t actually be both 17 and 19. 17 and 18, maybe, if the date cutoff used for determination of the competition age for that year is different and her birthday is in the “twilight zone” so that she is considered one age for one and the other age for the other. If she’s lying for FEI, yes, that would seem silly as (near as I can tell) a 17 year old qualifies for the same classes as a 19 year old, so there’s no benefit. If she’s lying for USEF, that’s not “silly” (nor legit), that’s against the rules, and should be reported as it allows her to compete in a division meant for younger riders.

          If she’s not lying and you’re really just saying she competes with 17 year olds in the Juniors in USEF classes and 19 year olds in FEI, no it’s not silly, it’s just that different governing bodies have different rules regarding how they divide age groups. Different governing bodies have different rules for a lot of different things, whether you’re talking governments, American League vs. National League baseball, or horse associations.

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          • #6
            https://www.usequestrian.org/forms-p...-determination

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            • #7
              Thank you! I think those rules completely account for the situation that OP describes, and I expect OP got the exact details a little wrong.

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              • Original Poster

                #8
                No, I didn't get the "exact details" wrong, and no of course I didn't mean she's lying. I just meant I think it's silly that our 2 (only) NGB have age cutoffs so far apart that this (yes she's a) girl, age 18, never competes as her "correct" age.
                When the boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks the closet for George Morris. -mpsbarnmanager

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                • #9
                  One NGB is US only and governs unique things like Eq and Hunters while the other is global and does not have, or care about such things. They really don’t compare. Maybe it’s silly the rest of the world doesn’t agree with us or maybe vice versa but with no rules violated, not worth the bother worrying about.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                    No, I didn't get the "exact details" wrong, and no of course I didn't mean she's lying. I just meant I think it's silly that our 2 (only) NGB have age cutoffs so far apart that this (yes she's a) girl, age 18, never competes as her "correct" age.
                    Does it matter? Everything in life has different cut off ages.

                    But yeah, I first read your query as insinuating that the girl was somehow gaming the system. I see your point now but everything has different cutboff points, school is different from both these as well. Maybe it's hard to line up national and international organizations, as the poster above says?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Alterrain View Post
                      No, I didn't get the "exact details" wrong, and no of course I didn't mean she's lying. I just meant I think it's silly that our 2 (only) NGB have age cutoffs so far apart that this (yes she's a) girl, age 18, never competes as her "correct" age.
                      You’re getting at least some of the details wrong, because there is no “17 year old” division in USEF nor is there a “19 year old division” in FEI. If she was actual age 17 as of 12/1/19, she competes as a 17 year old for both organizations for the entire year (even if she has a birthday Dec 2, 2019), can compete in either the Juniors or the Young Riders for FEI (and good on her if she has the chops to ride in the Young Riders with riders up to age 21), and MUST compete in the Juniors for USEF. It’s not two different NGB’s it’s an NGB and an IGB. Even if it’s two NGB’s, it’s NOT UNUSUAL OR SILLY in the slightest to have different rules with different organizations. Even the different divisions (American League and National League) under the umbrella of Major League Baseball have certain rules that are different from each other.

                      I’m not sure why you care so much about another rider who is fully complying with the rules, Yeah, it’s a bit of a lucky break for her if she turned 18 early in the year, and is competing against much younger riders in the USEF divisions. She has no choice, if she is riding in USEF classes that are not open. Realistically, age is the least of advantages when it comes to riding. There’s ten year olds that could clean my peak riding talent 20-year-old clock, every time, any time, because they had the opportunities and put in the time to be damn good riders and I was just puttering along. Being a few months older than another rider is nothing compared to having more riding time, better horses, better trainers, and/or (most importantly) a high drive to apply those advantages and actually improve and win.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, I think it's kind of silly that according to one organization she is 17 and 19 in another.

                        I’m not sure why you care so much about another rider who is fully complying with the rules,
                        I don't think the OP cares at all about this particular rider, but that the rules about age in different organizations are in conflict to the point of seeming silly.
                        "She is not fragile like a flower. She is fragile like a bomb."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post
                          Yes, I think it's kind of silly that according to one organization she is 17 and 19 in another.


                          I don't think the OP cares at all about this particular rider, but that the rules about age in different organizations are in conflict to the point of seeming silly.
                          That was the impression I got as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My daughter (much younger) has a birthday that she can still show in a younger age bracket (USEF) than her "real" age.

                            For some reason- it bothers me (about my kid) but as our trainer and my real brain tell me- we are abiding by the rules. It just feels odd to me when a parent or trainer asks her age- I always feel like we are being carded
                            Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Your minor child’s age is really not an appropriate topic for casual conversation with nosey strangers . Just reply she has a fortunate birthday, which she does, joke you planned it that way. No need to defend when you are are not breaking any rules.
                              When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                              The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                Your minor child’s age is really not an appropriate topic for casual conversation with nosey strangers . Just reply she has a fortunate birthday, which she does, joke you planned it that way. No need to defend when you are are not breaking any rules.
                                Right? On 2 occasions it was family of a child that ribboned below mine. One even sent the GRANDMOTHER over.

                                No one seems to care her age when she isn't in good ribbons....

                                I'd like to say pony moms are the worst- but I have seen a lot of AA/AO crazy so....
                                Come to the dark side, we have cookies

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Oh, if you don’t win, or at least place above them, nobody cares. Says me after 17 years in a mainly Junior (as in 3’6” and Medal) and Pony barn. Same with shamateurs.

                                  If you suck,everybody is your friend. Everybody only loves a winner until they turn their backs.
                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Pennywell Bay View Post

                                    Right? On 2 occasions it was family of a child that ribboned below mine. One even sent the GRANDMOTHER over.

                                    No one seems to care her age when she isn't in good ribbons....

                                    I'd like to say pony moms are the worst- but I have seen a lot of AA/AO crazy so....
                                    Yikes I would be tempted to tell your daughter to run Grandma over with her pony. And tell all those snoops, "DD's LEGAL show age is X" and leave it at that. Pony moms can be brutal.

                                    I don't see anything wrong with the situation the OP describes, the girl is showing legally (although yes it does seem a bit silly that someone can legally be 17 and 19 at the same time) and I wouldn't waste the effort to get upset over something so insignificant since she is competing within the rules.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      When my daughter showed in the FEI Children’s Jumper Championship, her show age for FEI was the age she was going to be that year, not the the age she was at the competition. Her USEF age was 14. Her FEI age was 15. That was nine years ago, so I do not know if it has changed in regard to FEI. It is the same for USA Cycling which my husband competes in. His age is what he is going to turn that year, not the age he is when the competition year starts.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I wonder if that’s to conform to IOC birthdate standards?
                                        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                        Comment

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