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  • #61
    Originally posted by McGurk View Post
    @Buckshot,

    Yes, Scribbler and trubandloki defined it correctly. A good trip in the hunter ring consists of 8 consistent spots or distances to the fences and two flying changes (or landing correctly.)

    It's simple, but it's not easy. Reducing it to "8 spots and 2 changes" is somewhat ironic or tongue in cheek.

    So there's a local pro, a VERY talented rider, who's sort of the undisputed king of the local circuit, who can get on ANYTHING and produce a nice 3' hunter trip. Which takes considerable skill. To produce the same sort of trip at 3'3" or 3'6", he requires a horse with a little talent as well, but he can coax a good 3' trip out of a donkey. This rider is very capable of showing in the As regularly or showing in the jumpers, but he chooses to concentrate on the local circuit and doing a handful of nearby As. He has made a pretty nice career of it; riding, training and teaching.

    When I was branching out to eventing and jumpers, he joked self-deprecatingly, that he couldn't, he only knew how to do once thing well, and that was 8 spots and 2 changes at 3'.

    I have never asked his reasons, I suspect it's a combo of dislike of overnight travel, staying in a comfort zone, and recognizing that staying at this level is secure living with a stable client base.
    I could imagine also that he crunched the numbers and figured that at his age (whatever it is!) and in his area, the costs of trying to upgrade to the next level include losing his existing client base and not necessarily being able to replace it with the much smaller pool of amatuers riding 3 foot 6.

    If you want to be a working horse pro you need clients first and foremost, you aren't free to pursue your competition dreams at the expense of meeting your clients needs and wants. Basically your own independent competition career is curtailed.

    I can also see someone with a talent for calm precision not loving the speed element of jumping and eventing!

    All I can say is good for him, he has found a niche, can make a living, and has reasonable expectations for his own competition career.

    Comment


    • #62
      There seem to be different flavors of this phenomenon.

      a) The barn is a known quantity with no pretenses. The picnic brought along by the entourage is as important as the show. If you want to move forward, you'll need to move on. But you can stay here and enjoy the company forever.
      b) The instructor is truly 'sandbagging/gaslighting' clients to keep them under her/his thumb. And keep them in the instructor's low-level comfort zone.
      c) The instructor frankly does not have the chops to move students up, regardless of the student's talent or the horse they are on. Attempts to break into the next level are met with failure after failure when horse and student don't perform well in the show ring, even picking up a fair number of E's on course. There is always some excuse.
      d) The area just does not have many better-quality horses, or higher-level facilities, thus limiting the local riders unless they can travel to higher-rated shows.

      Etc.

      I was thinking that this thread might yield a new, useful term, but I'm not sure there is one that covers all of the bases. Each situation probably merits its own term.

      I haven't noticed that anyone was seeking a derogatory term, just a fair and descriptive one. These situations do exist, and in abundance.

      I've thought of a lot of trainer's I've known or been aware of while reading this thread. There are so many ways this type of situation can develop without anyone intending it. And some that are definitely intentional.

      I think that in the end, everyone has to figure out where they are comfortable, instructors and trainers as well as students. Not everyone is trying to go to the higher levels and in fact most riders probably are not. So it makes sense that a trainer/instructor/coach is going to focus on the level that will do best for their own abilities and the local riding community.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

        And actually there is nothing wrong with that. It's how a lot of recreational riders interact with their horses.

        If the kids that left returned because they were uncomfortable facing a steep new learning curve, then that's proof that *those particular kids* lack the grit and determination to learn more, and perhaps their parents lack the cash to fund a better horse at the new barn.

        My guess is that the clientele for this barn self selects, and the parents and kids that want a more ambitious experience go to other barns in the first place, or after one or two lessons here.

        Kids and teens ride for many different reasons, and having a comfortable social environment and safe horse world outside of the pressures of school, home, and boys, is a very valuable thing. Not all kids are competitive, and not all kids who have natural riding talent are in a headspace to maximize that talent in a rigorous training program.
        That's exactly what it is. I totally don't mind it, and love that they are a good environment (for the most part, there are some other things about the place I don't like but that's a different story). BUT, when the kids go on IG and try to act like they are all-knowing and expert riders, it makes me really wish they would go somewhere to learn more just because I know they would do well if they got past the "I am the greatest and already know everything" mentality. Though as long as they are having fun, it doesn't REALLY matter. It's more me wanting to see them progress instead of go backwards since I know how good they could be. So I guess really just my issue

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        • #64
          Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post

          That's exactly what it is. I totally don't mind it, and love that they are a good environment (for the most part, there are some other things about the place I don't like but that's a different story). BUT, when the kids go on IG and try to act like they are all-knowing and expert riders, it makes me really wish they would go somewhere to learn more just because I know they would do well if they got past the "I am the greatest and already know everything" mentality. Though as long as they are having fun, it doesn't REALLY matter. It's more me wanting to see them progress instead of go backwards since I know how good they could be. So I guess really just my issue
          Oh you can't control what kids say on IG, and if they weren't bragging about their awful riding then they would be posting embarrassing party pics, clumsy dance videos, viral stunts, etc. Or pictures of hideous designer knockoff handbags or ghastly makeup portraits.

          In other words every teen IG post is about I'm the greatest, I know everything.

          It's hard when you know the subject area well enough to have opinions or when you know the teens personally and are embarassed for them. But honestly only their teen frenemies, kids at their school, and you, are viewing these.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

            In other words every teen IG post is about I'm the greatest, I know everything.
            With this, I say a prayer that I got to grow up with social media, bc I for sure would have been an offender of this kind of nonsense.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by greysfordays View Post

              With this, I say a prayer that I got to grow up with social media, bc I for sure would have been an offender of this kind of nonsense.
              OH yes me too.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                And actually there is nothing wrong with that. It's how a lot of recreational riders interact with their horses.

                If the kids that left returned because they were uncomfortable facing a steep new learning curve, then that's proof that *those particular kids* lack the grit and determination to learn more, and perhaps their parents lack the cash to fund a better horse at the new barn.

                My guess is that the clientele for this barn self selects, and the parents and kids that want a more ambitious experience go to other barns in the first place, or after one or two lessons here.

                Kids and teens ride for many different reasons, and having a comfortable social environment and safe horse world outside of the pressures of school, home, and boys, is a very valuable thing. Not all kids are competitive, and not all kids who have natural riding talent are in a headspace to maximize that talent in a rigorous training program.
                totally agree. my daughter and the friends (kids and adults) she has made at her barn and the freedom she has there is a huge reason to stay. It is not a show barn and the kids do want to show sometimes (schooling only) but they know if they go elsewhere they will not have what they have now. They may "progress" as far as showing, but they have learned a lot they wouldnt learn elsewhere. Being the "advanced" riders they get so much freedom.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Scribbler View Post

                  Oh you can't control what kids say on IG, and if they weren't bragging about their awful riding then they would be posting embarrassing party pics, clumsy dance videos, viral stunts, etc. Or pictures of hideous designer knockoff handbags or ghastly makeup portraits.

                  In other words every teen IG post is about I'm the greatest, I know everything.

                  It's hard when you know the subject area well enough to have opinions or when you know the teens personally and are embarassed for them. But honestly only their teen frenemies, kids at their school, and you, are viewing these.
                  Yessss! Instagram is both amazing because I've gotten to see some really cool people go through journeys with their horses, and riders and trainers I wouldn't have known existed otherwise...but it's also slightly aggravating to see all the kiddies be know-it-alls on everything. The best ones are the riding fails pages, where some kid falls off and the hordes of teen trainers come in with the online training advice. Always the same advice too, like they are some secret holder of knowledge and no one else would have thought that the kid should have let go of the reins when they fell, or some other thing like that. And add on the smile or wink or hearts so that everyone knows they are a sweet, friendly person too.

                  When it comes down to it though, I'm glad these kids have a place to ride that they can share it with others that love horses, and that they aren't posting any of those 13-year-old-going-on-18 type selfies. I wish I had been riding when I was that age and could have had that experience. And they certainly don't know better, I didn't know how awful the care at the barn I started at was until a few years later when I moved to a better one. You don't know what you don't know. The more you know, the more stressful the world becomes.

                  Sorry to kind of derail the topic.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by RainWeasley View Post

                    The more you know, the more stressful the world becomes.
                    Ain't it the truth

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by trubandloki View Post

                      I have been around the block more times than I would like to admit and I have never heard of this as a thing or heard of a term for it.

                      Where did you hear this term? That might help people get you the answer you want.

                      Curious, how does keeping them at a certain level make them more money? How is it selfish?
                      I see far more trainers who push kids faster than they should so they can move up a division, to make more money and be able to boast that they have kids doing XYZ division.
                      I have ridden under trainers who got me to a certain point and then couldn't help me any more. Some of those trainers did have kids that were doing the same level year after year simply because they couldn't help them get any further. I felt bad for the kids because unlike an adult they didn't have the choice of moving on to a new trainer.

                      However, more often than not in both eventing barns I have ridden in and now jumper barns I have ridden at I have seen trainers pushing their kids to jump higher and higher without having the foundation. It is setting the child up for long term failure while the trainer gets a short term gain (happy parent seeing their kid progress and happy kids getting to jump things means more money in their pocket).

                      I wasn't aware that there was an actual term for either situation.

                      Comment

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