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Buying a horse from a seller you don't trust?

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  • CHT
    started a topic Buying a horse from a seller you don't trust?

    Buying a horse from a seller you don't trust?

    Has anyone ever bought a horse from a seller that is annoying/less than truthful and NOT regretted it?

    Talking about someone who says a horse can do a bunch of things, when they are unable/unwilling to show any of the things they claim the horse can do. Part of me says I should just judge the horse based on what I can see/test it do, but at the same time, it really annoys me. (For example, says the horse has auto-changes, but is unable to show a single lead change).

    I am very frustrated horse shopping.

  • Outyougo
    replied
    If you have even a wee doubt about sellers honesty you will always have that feeling that horse is NQR. Trust your first impression. There are more horses .

    Leave a comment:


  • CHT
    replied
    Originally posted by winter View Post

    What I'm trying to say is that a lot of pros don't know either. It takes nothing to call yourself a pro and get a group of clients.
    Agree: but I don't want to reward that behaviour by giving them money....which may be a dumb way of thinking about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • winter
    replied
    Originally posted by CHT View Post
    I am ok with a naïve seller. Someone who just doesn't know. It's the sellers that are selling themselves as pros but what they say vs what they show are two different things. I guess it feels manipulative, and I think I would be very mad at myself if the horse turned out the be a mistake.

    Bringing home a horse tomorrow to try to build into something useful.
    What I'm trying to say is that a lot of pros don't know either. It takes nothing to call yourself a pro and get a group of clients.

    Leave a comment:


  • abrant
    replied
    Originally posted by ace** View Post

    This is not unique to low level jumpers sadly! The last time my sister was looking for a dressage prospect in the $5-10K range, that was already going W/T/C she ran into all kinds of inaccurate/naive advertising such as a horse "schooling 2nd level" who went around with it's nose pointing straight up in the air, or to the horse that was advertised for $8K and in person was grossly underweight and obviously hadn't seen the farrier for some time. It's a difficult price range.
    This! This a very real phenomenon in the horse industry and it's mind boggling. I helped a friend shop in that price range and then I shopped in that price range last year. It's the worst price range.

    For me, I just won't spend more than $10k on a horse because I know I don't need it or really want it. At the same time, realizing what I got out of a $500 project pony was about what I could get out of that budget was a little disheartening.

    I was a little tricky because I didn't want a thoroughbred and I didn't want to deal with "baby s***" but there were a lot of false starts and misleading advertising and unpleasant surprises.

    I did end up finding the perfect horse in that price range, just had to concede a bit on age and greeness. I do feel like I got a bargain which is rare in that price range.

    I know horses are expensive and almost always a losing proposition for a seller but at the same time, I wouldn't trade in my beater car that gets from point a to point b just to spend $10k on a half junked out BMW that needs to be towed out of someone's driveway


    Leave a comment:


  • CHT
    replied
    Originally posted by ace** View Post

    This is not unique to low level jumpers sadly! The last time my sister was looking for a dressage prospect in the $5-10K range, that was already going W/T/C she ran into all kinds of inaccurate/naive advertising such as a horse "schooling 2nd level" who went around with it's nose pointing straight up in the air, or to the horse that was advertised for $8K and in person was grossly underweight and obviously hadn't seen the farrier for some time. It's a difficult price range.
    Lol, yes...the "my horse can do a shoulder in sort of, so it is schooling 2nd level", and what is with people neglecting farrier work on horses they have for sale over auction prices? A trim is cheap to do, but expensive if left undone. The horse I am bringing home tomorrow has never seen an actual farrier in his 9 years (nor a vet)! Sheesh.

    Leave a comment:


  • ace**
    replied
    Originally posted by CHT View Post
    Scribbler the budget is fixed unfortunately, but client has some flex in her wants...so we will have to give on what we get.

    It's been low level pros that have been the ones who have been difficult, and unfortunately they are luring the client in by being over the top in their praise of her riding skills "horsey loves you so much, he goes so much better for you than me" and so forth. (client is moderately disabled, and I wonder if they are picking up on that)

    I actually don't care about the lack of a flying change: that is something we can give up to save money, but when a seller advertises that the horse has auto changes, and then can't show a single change when the client goes to see the horse (or on a video), and tries to convince me that changing leads over a fence is a flying change, I start to get annoyed. (also tried to tell me a vertical in a video was an oxer...).Or there's the horse that has competed to Entry Eventing, and jumps 3 foot courses, but can't pick up the correct lead on the flat and only has video of 18" verticals.

    the one horse I actually don't mind, but their deception makes me wonder if the horse is just really tough at the higher fences, OR it started to go sore when they put more work on it, and it lost its changes?

    I thinking I need to make my own low level jumpers or move away from the discipline. It is ridiculous.
    This is not unique to low level jumpers sadly! The last time my sister was looking for a dressage prospect in the $5-10K range, that was already going W/T/C she ran into all kinds of inaccurate/naive advertising such as a horse "schooling 2nd level" who went around with it's nose pointing straight up in the air, or to the horse that was advertised for $8K and in person was grossly underweight and obviously hadn't seen the farrier for some time. It's a difficult price range.

    Leave a comment:


  • CHT
    replied
    I am ok with a naïve seller. Someone who just doesn't know. It's the sellers that are selling themselves as pros but what they say vs what they show are two different things. I guess it feels manipulative, and I think I would be very mad at myself if the horse turned out the be a mistake.

    Bringing home a horse tomorrow to try to build into something useful.

    Leave a comment:


  • winter
    replied
    I think a lot of sellers don't know what they don't know. They think their horse is A circuit quality but are offended when buyers don't think so. They might think a horse is bombproof and simple when really it's not. They claim it has scope for the 1.20 but have never sat on a 1.20 horse.... So I don't think it's about whether to trust the seller, but more about whether you trust yourself to know if the horse is suitable. Of course there are sellers who are deliberately misleading or who might not disclose a vice, but I think more often (especially in the market you are shopping) they genuinely believe what they are telling you is true. The lead change over the jump is the perfect example, that person might genuinely believe that means the horse has a change.
    The onus is definitely on the buyer to evaluate if the horse is suitable irrespective of the sellers claims.

    Leave a comment:


  • L00kAtMeN0w
    replied
    I fall in the camp of "I believe it when I see it." In my opinion, the horse only does something if I see it doing it in person or in a video. However, it doesn't necessarily dissuade me from buying a horse if the ad stretches the truth.

    Given what I know about the market, is the horse in front of me worth what they are asking? Given what I have seen, is this a horse I want to own? Could I live with the "unknowns" being negative? If the answers are yes, I probably move forward. If no, then I don't.

    I think it is extremely rare to buy a horse with a 100% true and accurate representation of its entire history. Honestly, most of the time, people just DON'T KNOW. So you go off of what you can figure out. Internet stalking tends to bring up a lot of truths too. ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • merrygoround
    replied
    Many of these posts make me grin! I remember one filly that was always somewhere else, requiring trailering whenever I asked about her.

    The eventual purchaser informed me that when purchased the mare loaded easily despite it being the first time loaded. ??

    This was not the first discrepancy accredited to this "agent".

    Leave a comment:


  • Wanderosa
    replied
    My daughter's trainer occasionally will. She knows at pretty much every major player in the H/J world in the mid-Atlantic. Her parents and grandparents probably knew their parents and grandparents. She sort of knows how a particular individual is apt to be dishonest. If she's really interested in a particular prospect she'll work out a way that covers her butt. Usually a trial at her barn that's long enough for drugs to pass from the system, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • CHT
    replied
    Scribbler the budget is fixed unfortunately, but client has some flex in her wants...so we will have to give on what we get.

    It's been low level pros that have been the ones who have been difficult, and unfortunately they are luring the client in by being over the top in their praise of her riding skills "horsey loves you so much, he goes so much better for you than me" and so forth. (client is moderately disabled, and I wonder if they are picking up on that)

    I actually don't care about the lack of a flying change: that is something we can give up to save money, but when a seller advertises that the horse has auto changes, and then can't show a single change when the client goes to see the horse (or on a video), and tries to convince me that changing leads over a fence is a flying change, I start to get annoyed. (also tried to tell me a vertical in a video was an oxer...).Or there's the horse that has competed to Entry Eventing, and jumps 3 foot courses, but can't pick up the correct lead on the flat and only has video of 18" verticals.

    the one horse I actually don't mind, but their deception makes me wonder if the horse is just really tough at the higher fences, OR it started to go sore when they put more work on it, and it lost its changes?

    I thinking I need to make my own low level jumpers or move away from the discipline. It is ridiculous.

    Leave a comment:


  • Classic
    replied
    It's what sellers don't say. They will tell you all the good things, as they should, and just leave out the bad, no matter the price of the horse. It's always buyer beware, no matter who.

    Leave a comment:


  • Haylter
    replied
    OK I GOTTA ASK...what is there excuse for not being able to show even one lead change????!!!!! If I got on the horse and was able to get changes, OK proceed, IF I got on horse and was NOT able to get changes, NOPING OUT even if I had seen seller get 20 of them out of the horse. I need to trust what the horse does when I am on it and vet more than I need to trust the seller...and yes sellers are motivated to hand you a pair of rose colored glasses between those and your "manure" colored glasses is about where the actual reality is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scribbler
    replied
    Originally posted by CHT View Post
    Has anyone ever bought a horse from a seller that is annoying/less than truthful and NOT regretted it?

    Talking about someone who says a horse can do a bunch of things, when they are unable/unwilling to show any of the things they claim the horse can do. Part of me says I should just judge the horse based on what I can see/test it do, but at the same time, it really annoys me. (For example, says the horse has auto-changes, but is unable to show a single lead change).

    I am very frustrated horse shopping.
    I would not believe anything unless I saw it IRL and could get it myself. If I needed a horse with a certain training level I would not travel to see it unless video showed horse doing said thing.

    I would not believe show records unless I saw them online, and I would not believe breeding unless I saw the papers.

    IME most ammie sellers are barn blind, and all pros put a good face on things, to put it mildly.

    So actually there probably is no horse seller out there that I would fully trust without verification.

    I would buy a horse from someone I really really didn't trust if it was a rescue or project or upgrade scenario and it was really cheap.

    OP I think you had an earlier post asking about the current prices on horses at a given competition level? If you can't find what you want, its possible you have to increase your budget?

    Leave a comment:


  • joiedevie99
    replied
    Same! I never believe a word the seller says - show record, training, bloodlines, etc. If I can't verify it with my own two eyes (or my own search on the internet), it didn't happen. If I have reason to believe a seller is shadier than average, though, I won't deal with them. There are too many things that I can't find on my own. No PPE can tell you if the horse was injected a month ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zu Zu
    replied
    I would not even consider it !

    Leave a comment:


  • StormyDay
    replied
    I did, twice. Have not regretted it either time. First horse was touted as a seasoned show horse, but in reality was green as grass. He turned out the be the horse of a lifetime. Second one is still very new in my barn but so far I don’t regret it.
    I never believe anything a seller says. I know that sounds bad, but if the horse was some miracle horse they wouldn’t be selling it.
    If the price reflects the horses true knowledge level, then I have no issue wading through the cr*p.

    Leave a comment:


  • SonnysMom
    replied
    Originally posted by Nickelodian View Post

    But, why would you even consider a horse without a lead change?
    It depends on the age of the horse, how much training and how fit the horse is. A good rider/trainer can train most horses to do a flying change unless there is a conformation or lameness issue. Hopefully you would be able to tell by looking at the horse or having a PPE if that is the case.

    My OTTB doesn't have a flying lead change with me. My dressage trainer doesn't ask for flying changes as he isn't strong enough at the canter for consistent dressage changes. She does not want him to learn that changes that are a little late behind are okay. The hunter trainer at the barn can get them. I wasn't there so I don't know if they were "clean" changes by dressage standards. She was rode him twice while I was traveling for work and my dressage trainer wasn't available.

    I mostly plan on eventing so a simple change or not changing is fine for the level we are currently at. I may play at a local hunter show later in the summer but it would be for experience so I don't care if he has a flying change right now. In the long run I prefer to be patient and make sure that when we start working on changes they are clean dressage changes.

    OP- It depends on why they are stating incorrect things about the horse. We have all seen the ads where it says the horse jumps 4 foot only to find out that what they meant was the horse jumped the pasture gate-once. Of he does flying lead changes- while playing in the field. Some people are barn blind or delusional about what their horses can do at liberty versus what they are trained to do. If the price was right then buying from somebody like that I would consider. You just look at the horse in front of you and decide if that is something you can work with.

    On the other hand there is the person that says horse has won competing at 3 ft and you find out that the horse has never competed above 2'6", was dead last or excused from the ring for refusals when they did compete. Outright lying would be a no go. What else are they lying about that is important? Are they dishonest enough to drug to hide the lameness?

    Clueless versus malicious are very different.

    Leave a comment:

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