Stallion Spotlight

Sir Donnerhall_02Beelitz

Real Estate Spotlight

Copy of asbury aerial
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

The “shamateur”

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by findeight View Post
    The show industry over here is not comparable to Germany in number of participants or number of shows and darn sure not comparable in what it would cost USEF to administer it. How much would you willing to pay for that new licensing department?

    Biggest issue is people thinking they are special and willfully ignoring the rules we do have.
    Yes, the US is bigger but it could work. It would make it much fairer for the riders. People wouldn’t need to snitch on each other.

    The federation keeps track track of everyone’s placements any way using the system setup to signup up for shows. Test for licensing are organized by clubs and riding schools. Once you pass the test you request to change your license level. Prior to this you can only participate in small schooling type shows. After two riding tests you are done. You slowly work your way up the licenses if you keep moving up class levels as you go.

    We also have rules about which bit you can ride in at which level. No crazy snaffle mouth pieces, the bits are limited so people who ride lower can’t fix bad riding with a crazy bit. People go around the 90cm-130cm jumpers in normal snaffles or maybe a passoa bit. We have clear ruled set out in all levels which are easily controllable.



    Comment


    • #62
      I agree- we COULD do something better here if we had the political will. We have models in our fellow US disciplines, we don't need to go all the way to Europe to find a more equitable system.

      Take roping, for example. I just learned that based on # of years competing/experience/show record, you're assigned a number from 1-10 on a ranking level. If you enter a Pairs Roping 10 class, the two ropers combined can't have more than 10 points total. So you can have two 5s, one 9 and one 1, or any combo there-in, but not two 10s competing against two 1s. Also, you can enter up, but can't enter down.

      If they can do it, in this country and make it work without extraordinary measures, why couldn't USHJA or USEF have the will to change things? It's because they care more about $$ than they do about actual fair competition and from what else I've learned on this thread, always have.

      Until this changes, we'll always have arguments that go in circles about shamateurs and the like instead of banding together to fix the problem. They WANT us to just endlessly complain about the symptoms because it distracts us from demanding the real change that's needed.



      Comment


      • #63
        It might work in more populated regions but forcing people to pay for a license, take a test and be allowed to ride their own horse only at certain shows until they advance? At smaller shows that don’t even exist anymore and may require travel in many areas isn’t going to sit well with most people. And who would pay for it and police it? They can’t track what they have now, it’s a hobby club with no law enforcement powers like being on the property without a warrant and subpoena power.

        Most of the violations are in the 3’ Hunters where the Pro most definately has an advantage over a three day a week ammie in the finesse department.. Jumpers and Eventing are strictly performance based so that in itself levels the field a bit.

        Im really no great defender of USEF but they just can’t do much as a self funded hobby club.
        When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

        The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

        Comment


        • #64
          Well the obstacle of accessibility is fairly easily solved. Have the classes at all the shows now. They don't have to be limited to schooling shows. So if your trainer only goes to the big A's, then level up at those.

          Of course this won't ever happen. The system caters to the small % who feed it, the rest of the masses be damned.
          "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right." -Henry Ford

          Comment


          • #65
            Divida et impera...

            as long as the riders fight against each other, they are kept busy and they don’t focus on the real problems... Look how busy the watch out for shamateurs is keeping everybody in this thread....
            https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
            https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
              I really wish it was the case that USEF cared a cent for people who can’t live within the sport, but that is obviously not true at all. The USEF amateur rule is for people who have enough money to live on the circuit with a string.

              if anyone cared about working amateurs, the amateur classes would be on the weekend, which they definitely are not most of the time.
              But the point is that the USEF's predecessor, the AHSA, that created the amateur division and definition also didn't care about protecting access to fair sport for the ammy who couldn't afford to do what it took to show among her peers.
              The armchair saddler
              Politically Pro-Cat

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by DMK View Post


                I think there is plenty of abuse in the ammy rule, but I don't think the rule itself has anything to do with creating a level playing field, either in the ammys OR the pros. Some riders, regardless of what their USEF card says, will naturally be better riders, have deeper pockets/better sponsors, more/better horses, more practice time, have better facilities, be more driven to win or any combination thereof, all or any of which will give them a competitive edge in those respective divisions. That's just life.

                Competing as an "Ammy" is just an arbitrary decision point to split competitors into different competition groupings, not really any different than pony heights, junior age out year or age splits in breed shows. It's just a rule, all sound and fury, signifying nothing about your actual skills (apologies to Shakespeare and Faulkner ). That said, it IS a rule and as a competitor, you (the generic you who breaks the rule, not the OP ) owe it to all your fellow competitors to respect the letter if not the spirit of the rule. And I don't really care if you are not a threat to your fellow competitors' chances at acetate ribbon glory, it says something of the measure of your character if you know the rule and choose to break it anyway. If you do that, I figure there are any number of things you may deem not applicable to you and decide not to follow.

                That said, it would probably be nice to recognize "limit" riders, those in their first year of showing in a given division, maybe have them declare "limit adult, limit 3'3 AO and so on, and have a zone award for their performance and maybe a ch. and reserve limit rider per show to acknowledge the accomplishments of people trying to move up, start showing, etc.
                With all due respect to you, to Shakespeare and Faulkner, the fact that the amateur/pro distinction is a muddled one, or one not well-defended is *not the same* as saying that it "signfifies nothing,*. Nor is it worth nothing to try to create some division among the wide swath of competitors so that like competes against like.

                Again, failing to do something well does not mean it the mission was flawed.

                And so it's worth following the ammy/pro rule until it's changed. Cheating when it suits someone or looking the other way does nothing to help create the pressure to produce something better.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by marginall View Post
                  Why do people assume this is a trainer willfully committing subterfuge in the 3ft adult hunter division? Maybe it's just a trainer providing an opportunity to an amateur who doesn't have the means to own a horse or show.

                  I know a few trainers and amateur owners who have provided opportunities to others which have broken rules and it actually restores my faith in our sport. If an owner covers the cost of someone's show fees allowing them a chance to participate or a trainer lets an amateur hack horses (which happens at pretty much every barn I've been to), then good on them for providing opportunities to others for saddle time. I get not paying for a training ride unless it's by a pro, but often an amateur hacking another's horse is a win-win. For some, getting their horse out for a light hack when they can't get to the barn themselves is worth a few bucks.

                  Our sport is so cost prohibitive and elitist as it is, we don't need an internet posse calling for suspensions and punishment for people they don't even know. I think it's really sad, and quite frankly scary, that people are offering to report this trainer and amateur based on an anonymous board poster, without directly knowing any of the details or people involved.

                  Working amateurs getting chances to ride and compete when they otherwise couldn't afford to on their own is leveling the playing field. Exclusivity at the lowest levels of our sport is what's ruining it, not the people at the top.
                  You are speaking to me. I made the offer. I stand by it as the moral thing to do. And I grew up that ammy who would have benefited from "opportunities."

                  But you can rest assured that the internet posse and I don't actually decide who is cheating and who is not. Rather, that's the USEF's job. All anyone filing a report does is produce evidence. And the cheater him or herself created that. So I think you disdain might be misplaced.
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Pintopony175 View Post
                    So I’ve recently moved to a new barn where I’ve noticed some shamateur activity... one of the amateurs who shows in the adult hunters (on sale horses) teaches lessons on occasion, rides all the training ride horses, and gets paid as “barn help”.
                    Do you have proof that she is being paid, or do you assume? This is the key to your violation protest with USEF.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by findeight View Post
                      It might work in more populated regions but forcing people to pay for a license, take a test and be allowed to ride their own horse only at certain shows until they advance? At smaller shows that don’t even exist anymore and may require travel in many areas isn’t going to sit well with most people. And who would pay for it and police it? They can’t track what they have now, it’s a hobby club with no law enforcement powers like being on the property without a warrant and subpoena power.

                      Most of the violations are in the 3’ Hunters where the Pro most definately has an advantage over a three day a week ammie in the finesse department.. Jumpers and Eventing are strictly performance based so that in itself levels the field a bit.

                      Im really no great defender of USEF but they just can’t do much as a self funded hobby club.
                      ALL shows must take all entries through the national federation’s signup website. It’s one way for all shows. The license for lower levels costs less than 50 USD a year. The tests are run at local riding schools. If you want to show above the lower levels you take the test (it’s also not that expensive). Once you start jumping over 115cm then the license gets more expensive.
                      the model is there for the USEF to look at.

                      The French system also requires tests and licenses.

                      in the UK it’s different again but still non of the pro amateur mess that you guys have. I tell people over here and they think it’s nuts.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by bluepece2 View Post

                        ALL shows must take all entries through the national federation’s signup website. It’s one way for all shows. The license for lower levels costs less than 50 USD a year. The tests are run at local riding schools. If you want to show above the lower levels you take the test (it’s also not that expensive). Once you start jumping over 115cm then the license gets more expensive.
                        the model is there for the USEF to look at.

                        The French system also requires tests and licenses.

                        in the UK it’s different again but still non of the pro amateur mess that you guys have. I tell people over here and they think it’s nuts.
                        I was amazed by the philosophy standing behind the US system when I came over here...

                        But it is what it is and you are not supposed to dare to analyse it... it doesn’t matter how the rest of the world does it and whether it works for them or not...

                        In Dressage it costs you about $300 to ride one 5 min test but usually you get a ribbon for it...
                        And don’t you dare to try to recover some of the costs for showing by giving lessons or riding horses for other people.. Then you are a bad bad shamateur...
                        It i is all about money over here and if you don’t have it, It’s your own fault, because you are not working hard enough...

                        and if you don’t like it, go back to where you came from....

                        Its a nice shiny system customized for the rich AA and the pros making money from these AAs..

                        It’s not worth to think about it,,,I simply try to follow the rules and look at it with a sense of humor....
                        https://www.facebook.com/Luckyacresfarm
                        https://www.facebook.com/Ulrike-Bsch...4373849955364/

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Manni01 View Post
                          Divida et impera...

                          as long as the riders fight against each other, they are kept busy and they don’t focus on the real problems... Look how busy the watch out for shamateurs is keeping everybody in this thread....
                          As long as the sport continues with its "aliis si licet, tibi non licet" attitude, this will be an ongoing issue. And yes, that means "If others are allowed to, that does not mean you are." The rules must be equally applied to all. They clearly are not.

                          Yes the rules are in place for a reason. We have them for fair treatment to the horses (drug, welfare, etc...), we have them for fair treatment for the rider (SafeSport), and we have them for fair treatment of the competition itself: Pro vs Amateur. If we give a message that a rule is not important, we set a precedent about rules in general not being important.


                          I don't think asking people to follow rules is causing the division. I do think applying rules randomly and in an inconsistent way does, however, cause division.

                          If people don't like the rules, then they should work to change them and not break them as it suits them

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            In Canada the rules don't define or mention "Pro" in any way. There are Junior, Amateur and Open classes.

                            Is that not the case in the USA?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by RedHorses View Post
                              In Canada the rules don't define or mention "Pro" in any way. There are Junior, Amateur and Open classes.

                              Is that not the case in the USA?
                              I'm not really sure what you're getting at. There are shamateurs in Canada too. Open just means that anyone can show in the class/division. Amateur classes are restricted to amateurs. Junior classes are restricted to juniors. Most juniors and amateurs stick to their respective divisions to avoid showing against the real pros (ie Erynn Ballard, Ryan Roy, Darcy Hayes, etc.) who are limited to the open divisions like the Combineds and the pre-greens.

                              If the OP can prove that the person is indeed accepting money for riding and teaching, and they continue competing as an amateur than I would file anonymously. Call me a goody goody or whatever, but rules are rules. And I lose respect and trust for anyone who breaks even the silliest of rules.

                              Without proof then hopefully it just means the OP is reading the situation wrong. That the person in question just wants horse time and are offering their "services" for free.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
                                I doubt the OP would need to leave the barn for reporting a rule breaking shamateur. <snip>

                                The stories of the T-Rex Eventer

                                Big Head, Little Arms, Still Not Thinking It Through

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by bluepece2 View Post

                                  ALL shows must take all entries through the national federation’s signup website. It’s one way for all shows. The license for lower levels costs less than 50 USD a year. The tests are run at local riding schools. If you want to show above the lower levels you take the test (it’s also not that expensive). Once you start jumping over 115cm then the license gets more expensive.
                                  the model is there for the USEF to look at.

                                  The French system also requires tests and licenses.

                                  in the UK it’s different again but still non of the pro amateur mess that you guys have. I tell people over here and they think it’s nuts.
                                  Requiring ALL shows in the US to only accept entries submitted directly through the USEF, including lower level shows, seems a rather ponderous solution and huge overhaul to deal with a problem that, despite what you read on here, is not that overwhelming a problem. Not a problem at all in the Child, Junior and Open classes making up the majority of the schedule. Not that big a problem in the Amatuer Owners either. Mainly seen in the Adult Ammies. IME.

                                  No need to nationalize the whole industry. Need people to step up and try to do something utilizing existing channels. Most who complain on the internet have not done so or can’t because the shows involved are outside USEF jurisdiction and do not wish to join it any more then USEF wants to take on regulating them.

                                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by GoodTimes View Post

                                    I'm not really sure what you're getting at. There are shamateurs in Canada too. Open just means that anyone can show in the class/division. Amateur classes are restricted to amateurs. Junior classes are restricted to juniors. Most juniors and amateurs stick to their respective divisions to avoid showing against the real pros (ie Erynn Ballard, Ryan Roy, Darcy Hayes, etc.) who are limited to the open divisions like the Combineds and the pre-greens.

                                    If the OP can prove that the person is indeed accepting money for riding and teaching, and they continue competing as an amateur than I would file anonymously. Call me a goody goody or whatever, but rules are rules. And I lose respect and trust for anyone who breaks even the silliest of rules.

                                    Without proof then hopefully it just means the OP is reading the situation wrong. That the person in question just wants horse time and are offering their "services" for free.
                                    Yes, but as I stated previously, we do have one huge rule difference between Canada and the USA ,an amature in Canada, May teach within the confines of the EC NCCP teaching certification and they may also teach the disabled “ both for remuneration. Plus once you are shortlisted to a national team you are no longer an amateur for that year or if you’ve ridden on one, you cannot regain your amateur status for a period of 2 years! The only sameness to USEF is, we as an amateur cannot ride or train other horses for renumeration and we cannot be trainers above that states level....then and only then would be a “shamateur”! So in Canada, someone teaching may not be breaking their status!
                                    I have cancer but cancer doesnt have me!

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by Pintopony175 View Post
                                      So I’ve recently moved to a new barn where I’ve noticed some shamateur activity... one of the amateurs who shows in the adult hunters (on sale horses) teaches lessons on occasion, rides all the training ride horses, and gets paid as “barn help”. Personally, as an amateur, I can’t stand when people bend the rules of being an amateur.
                                      I’d love to get paid to ride extras or teach to help cover the cost of my horse... But I want to keep my amateur status so I follow all the rules!

                                      I can’t believe how many people at the barn seem to turn a blind eye to this? Or maybe they don’t know the rules?

                                      In the past I’ve been aware of the amateur who borders on the edge... maybe she occasionally rides extras and is also a groom so she gets paid without “getting paid to ride” but also owns or leases her own horse. But teaching lessons?!?! This girl doesn’t show a ton, doesn’t own her own horse, so I don’t understand why she doesn’t just turn pro if she wants to make money riding/teaching?? She’ll likely never get turned in since she doesn’t show a ton (but when she does it’s in the adults) ... should I just turn a blind eye like everyone else??

                                      I don’t want to stir the pot or start drama especially since I’m very new... but this drives me crazy!
                                      Wow! This discussion sure blew up while I was gone.

                                      My point of view:

                                      1. Person gets paid as barn help (and let's leave off the judgy quotes). Not a violation.

                                      2. Person rides training ride horses. So what? OP says person doesn't own her own horse. An explanation equally plausible to the OP's assumption that she's getting paid is that the trainer likes this person, thinks she has talent, and wants to give this poor person who can't even afford to buy a horse some free saddle time. Not a violation.

                                      3. Teaches lessons on occasion. Admittedly a finer line to walk. But, Person could just be stepping in from time to time to help out. "Person, I'm stuck with Dobbin down here with the vet, could you please go get my up-downers started?" Not a violation, as long as Person isn't being paid.

                                      4. Person doesn't show much.

                                      I stick with my initial assessment. OP should just mind her own business. And I do think the OP is being petty. The OP's description of this person who so offends her gives me the impression that this person is an older iteration of a barn rat - someone who can't afford to own or lease a horse, who can't afford to show much, and is working as barn help and picking up as many opportunities to ride for free as she can. I don't really see this person as a shamateur or as any kind of show ring threat to anybody.

                                      "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                      that's even remotely true."

                                      Homer Simpson

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the onus of proof fall to the person filing the complaint? And it's not proof of activity, but proof of renumeration for said activity. Because you can partake in lots of activities as an ammy so long as you're not paid/compensated as defined by the rulebook.

                                        Sports governing bodies don't, as far as I know, have any legal ability to conduct an audit of a barn's books or require ammies to submit their tax returns. And if you think the real shamateurs aren't getting paid cash under the table for everything they do...?

                                        Even if the person in question is on the payroll, all that is required to create a loophole is for them to be paid hourly, and to clock out, ride a few horses/teach a few lessons, and clock back in again for evening chores. They're technically not being paid for the hours in which they conduct the verboten activity.

                                        Be wary of apperances, too, before starting a witch hunt.

                                        There are true amateurs, abiding by the rules by not accepting any form of compensation, that appear to be shammy but are 100% legit. These are often experienced individuals who enjoy working with and riding horses, who for whatever reason do not need the money or reduction on board or gifts in kind.

                                        I'll admit it: the year I sold my part of my company to my partners and accepted a very nice package on top, I spent a lot of time at the barn while deciding what I wanted to do next to earn money. I had the luxury of not NEEDING to work at that time, so I didn't.

                                        That year happened to coincide with the BO being pregnant, so in addition to showing my mare and starting my youngster under saddle, I got to flat some very nice barn-owned horses. I was not paid, nor did I receive a break on my board bill. And yes, I was often seen taking a break with staff (I showed up with coffee in the mornings, or sometimes ordered us pizza or subs for lunch, or would pop out for icecreams on a really hot day), and sometimes I even picked up a fork and helped with stalls, or helped sweep at the end of the day or what have you (years later and now at another barn, I still do--I put myself through school as a groom, including an FEI stint, and understand fully how much it means to staff when a client pitches in). It was easy for people to mistake me for staff because quite frankly I looked like staff.

                                        But I was not a pro. I was that priveleged jerk of an ammy who didn't need to work.

                                        And if you'd shown up at current farm last weekend, you could have easily confused me with an instructor. One of the first really nice days of the spring here and lots of folks hitting the outdoor ring for the first time this year. Many rather, um, spritied horses afoot. Trainer is away on vacation. BM has Sundays off. I was far and away the most experienced, confident and capable adult on the property that afternoon. One horse started spinning and getting pretty light in his loafers and it became very obvious that the situation was getting dangerous (he was also lighting up everything else in the vicinity), so I stepped in to help his teenage rider, first by popping the fire-breathing dragon on a lunge to buck and fart, and then by talking her through riding him through some antics till he relaxed and settled.

                                        My compensation for this activity consisted entirely of my peace of mind and not having to take anyone to the ER. Sure, I could've just let things go. Or I could've advised the kid to just get off and leave it till the trainer comes back next week. But how does that serve either the young rider's confidence or the young horse's training?

                                        I looked like an instructor. But I was not a pro. I was a responsible adult and horseperson.

                                        Or most of us know the college kid who comes home on weekends and rides anything she can sit on--neither paying nor being paid--who could easily give the appearance of doing training rides and shamming like crazy, but is nothing of the sort. Take a picture of her list on the whiteboard!

                                        The list on the whiteboard makes her look like a trainer. But she is not a pro. She is a poor ammy who did the Big Eq her last junior year but cannot afford lessons and tuition at the same time.

                                        I don't know what the OP's true situation is, whether the shammy in question is truly blatanly rule breaking, working loopholes or simply giving that appearance. But the onus of proof is on the person filing the complaint for a reason.

                                        If you know for a fact someone is breaking the rules, you should slap down your $250 and go for it. But you need a paystub or a cashed cheque or a copy of their board bill showing the direct reduction to make it stick.

                                        And at the end of the day, the way the amateur rule is written (and arguably, applied) is really rather useless for leveling any playing field.

                                        It does nothing to recognize ability.

                                        Nor does it protect the working amateur with the 9-5+ job outside the industry.

                                        It does everything to protect the uber rich who don't have to work, can afford to own and ride five horses in full training, attend every clinic and horse show year-round.

                                        And it actively penalizes those who want to stay active with horses while pursuing higher education or starting their careers and don't come from wealth.

                                        At least EC lets the ammy teach up-down lessons as supplemental income, draws a line in the sand that those showing GP cannot compete as amateurs, and--here's a kicker--in Ontario at least, an ammy can only show TWO horses they don't own at any given horse show. REALLY has cut down on shammers on sales horses or gunning for points. At our indoor finals, even the pros are limited to number of rides per class/division. One brilliant young pro qualified four for Derby finals last year and had to hand over the reins on one.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post

                                          Wow! This discussion sure blew up while I was gone.

                                          My point of view:

                                          1. Person gets paid as barn help (and let's leave off the judgy quotes). Not a violation.

                                          2. Person rides training ride horses. So what? OP says person doesn't own her own horse. An explanation equally plausible to the OP's assumption that she's getting paid is that the trainer likes this person, thinks she has talent, and wants to give this poor person who can't even afford to buy a horse some free saddle time. Not a violation.

                                          3. Teaches lessons on occasion. Admittedly a finer line to walk. But, Person could just be stepping in from time to time to help out. "Person, I'm stuck with Dobbin down here with the vet, could you please go get my up-downers started?" Not a violation, as long as Person isn't being paid.

                                          4. Person doesn't show much.

                                          I stick with my initial assessment. OP should just mind her own business. And I do think the OP is being petty. The OP's description of this person who so offends her gives me the impression that this person is an older iteration of a barn rat - someone who can't afford to own or lease a horse, who can't afford to show much, and is working as barn help and picking up as many opportunities to ride for free as she can. I don't really see this person as a shamateur or as any kind of show ring threat to anybody.
                                          "So what?" So what is that it is against the rules.

                                          One cannot get paid for barn help, bookkeeping, barn management, anything AND ride horses or teach for the barn in conjunction. It doesn't matter what the intentions are; it doesn't matter if the person is legitimately being paid to clean 10 stalls and is truly doing the riding for free.

                                          It is expressly against the rules in order to keep people from claiming "oh I do the bookkeeping" while actually or also getting paid to teach and/or ride.

                                          We can debate ALL day whether the rules make sense (IMO they don't) but they're still the rules. You can't just choose to ignore the ones you don't agree with. Well, then again, since everyone seems to anyway, like I said earlier let's just throw the rulebook out the window.
                                          Jennifer Baas
                                          It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X