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Peter Pletcher discusses the unnecessary drama in the hunter ring

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  • Peter Pletcher discusses the unnecessary drama in the hunter ring

    Thank you, Peter. https://www.phelpssports.com/unneces..._wlLPidginLdWY

  • specifiedcupcake
    replied
    His message at the end was particularly salient, lol. "THINK ABOUT IT RATHER THAN REACT TO IT"

    Same lesson would be good to apply all over the place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Impractical Horsewoman
    replied
    As many others have noted, the riders who switch between different disciplines don't ride like this outside of the hunter ring. I've also noticed that some (although certainly not all) younger riders are riding in the hunters in a less exaggerated and mannered way, so perhaps this is going out of fashion a bit, at least in its most extreme forms?

    Fun video of Peter Pletcher that popped up of him doing the jumpers many, many years ago BTW:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkS1hVBHBfU

    I understand the rationale to some extent of the hunter style, to make it seem as if the horse has an extravagant jump/to show off the horse's jump. But I've been trying to put my finger on when and how in horse show history it became so stylized and so fashionable--clearly this wasn't always the case. Any thoughts?

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    Originally posted by GoodTimes View Post

    I think the good horses are winning inspite of the drama. It's distracting and the judges aren't stupid, they know what's real and what's exagerated. The pro's aren't being rewarded for it, the nice horses are being rewarded for being nice horses. The pro's need to just stop doing it period. And then the easily impressionable juniors and amateurs can try to emulate correct equitation in the hunter ring. The horse goes best when the rider stays out of the way.
    oh I agree, the top riders have the best horses, but I do believe the pros think they are showing their horses at their best using this style, because they aren't stupid, and want to win.

    I agree I wish everyone would stop doing this, but as we know it's the horses being judged not the riders. Until the top riders decide this isn't the best method, this is what we will see.

    Leave a comment:


  • rockonxox
    replied
    Originally posted by skippy77 View Post
    An interesting video. I thought he did a good job demonstrating the faults he was talking about. But I would have liked to have heard from actual judges about what they thought about those faults and how it affects their judging.
    Some feedback from judges:
    http://equestriancoachblog.com/judge...er-equitation/
    http://equestriancoachblog.com/posting-the-canter/

    We also have judges on COTH who have given opinions on these issues. If you aren't interfering with your horse then the riders faults aren't technically judged.... but if it is between you and another rider with the exact same way of going other than you duck and chicken wing over the jumps then you'll score lower. However, most average riders with these poor habits will affect their horse so it will affect their score. Riders who are *winning* and doing all the "flair" in the ring more often than not have A) amazing horses and B) can ride without the style fad of the week as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • skippy77
    replied
    An interesting video. I thought he did a good job demonstrating the faults he was talking about. But I would have liked to have heard from actual judges about what they thought about those faults and how it affects their judging.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Doolittle
    replied
    Yup, exactly.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoodTimes
    replied
    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

    Exactly! None of these riders do this because that's how they ride, but because that is what wins.
    I think the good horses are winning inspite of the drama. It's distracting and the judges aren't stupid, they know what's real and what's exagerated. The pro's aren't being rewarded for it, the nice horses are being rewarded for being nice horses. The pro's need to just stop doing it period. And then the easily impressionable juniors and amateurs can try to emulate correct equitation in the hunter ring. The horse goes best when the rider stays out of the way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Köttbulle
    replied
    The whole throwing yourself up the neck thing has always baffled me... if a horse is really jumping that hard and that round you really don't want to be that far forward. I would always get a good laugh when my friends would ride my Jumper gelding in a lesson. They would always tell me "i almost fell off at the end of the gymnastic line when he cracked his back over the last over." they would always admit to me that that were doing the hunter duck or throwing themselves up their neck. Heck if you leaned to far forward towards his wither he would knock the wind out of you!

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    Originally posted by mroades View Post

    I watched him show multiple horses at WEF today. It was interesting ( I have known him for many years) .He did all the drama stuff on the good ones and then could have won in any big eq class on the naughty or very green ones
    Exactly! None of these riders do this because that's how they ride, but because that is what wins.

    Leave a comment:


  • mroades
    replied
    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
    The issue being of course that that is by Peter's own admission exactly how he rides go watch pp and within one minute you will see every sin. So until the top of the top stops this style, it will persist ever more.
    I watched him show multiple horses at WEF today. It was interesting ( I have known him for many years) .He did all the drama stuff on the good ones and then could have won in any big eq class on the naughty or very green ones

    Leave a comment:


  • Mac123
    replied
    I will say Peter is far less "mannered" than most of the top hunter riders - do a quick google image search, and there's far more pictures that are closer to correct than not. However, there's also plenty of pictures that show him exhibiting the very sins he speaks against.

    Most of the issues in the horse world can be summed up in the issue of the practice of "do what I say, not as I do."

    Most people speak out against many, many issues (from positional flaws to the treatment of horses to ethical or moral issues) without recognizing their own actions that contribute. It's very easy to verbally condemn something while still going along with current practices to avoid rocking the boat or being the odd man out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Calvincrowe
    replied
    I started hunters in the very early 90s, and we all lightly two pointed in the hunters in the under saddle classes. So that's an old thing. my trainer and a BNT I just cliniced with work on all the seat positions.

    Fashion comes and goes but function doesn't change. Solid equitation will always be the key to success.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoodTimes
    replied
    I personally know two pro's that throw themselves up the neck on landing in the hunters. The frustrating part? One's a Maclay winner!!!@#$ And they don't do it on their jumpers. I can think of two fairly well known amateurs around here that do it as well, again they only do it on the hunters. Drives me bonkers. I'm so glad that all of my coaches over the years stick to correct equitation.

    As far as two point in the undersaddle goes, I was always taught to sit in the eq and two point or half seat in the hunter u/s. One of my horses will happily canter around nice and soft if you are in two point, if your bum touches the saddle you better have the leg and hand ready to get him forward and round otherwise he shortens and becomes more uphill - a product of doing some jumpers and eventing as a young horse. My A/O hunter can get downhill, with him I sit softly on the short side to rebalance a little and then soften and go up in two point or a half seat so he can open up a little down the long side in front of the judge - this horse consistently places top 3 in the hack.

    I'm not one to post at the canter. I don't ride with anyone who does it either. At a show I *may* see one person do it, so it doesn't seem to be a trend around here.

    Leave a comment:


  • findeight
    replied
    BTW, GM and many others teach that "llight two point" mentioned upthread as a " half seat", between full and two point, which is controlled by hip angle and sadly under emphasized by many trainers these days.

    Leave a comment:


  • mmeqcenter
    replied
    Originally posted by Mouse&Bay View Post
    The fact that the horse could not halt once for the video is a bit sad. Just ask him to stand, politely?? How does this hunter do the hack - don't you need to line up?
    Who says it couldn't? I saw him ask the horse to walk forward after brief halts, not a horse who couldn't stand. Which is definitely preferable, IMO, as it annoys me to no end when people stand around chatting treating their horse like a couch. Their backs deserve to be treated better than that.

    Leave a comment:


  • merrygoround
    replied
    Actually they do look a little silly with these practices.

    They'd never survive an actual fox hunt.

    Posting the canter is not uncommon in polo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nickelodian
    replied
    Originally posted by SillyHorse View Post

    What a bizarre thing for him to write/give opinion on

    Leave a comment:


  • DarkBayUnicorn
    replied
    Originally posted by Dr. Doolittle View Post
    Yes, the hypocrisy is frustrating
    It actually diminishes his argument entirely.

    "Don't do these things, even though I do them"

    "Don't do these things that we didn't do 30 years ago, even if what pinned 30 years ago is not what pins now!"

    Leave a comment:


  • Mouse&Bay
    replied
    The fact that the horse could not halt once for the video is a bit sad. Just ask him to stand, politely?? How does this hunter do the hack - don't you need to line up?

    Leave a comment:

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