• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.
2 of 2 < >

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums’ policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Mario Deslauriers

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mario Deslauriers

    Suspended by the FEI for banned substance positive result, in a horse he rode in Barcelona.
    Wasn't he suspended previously for a cocaine positive horse?

  • #2
    COCAINE?

    What in the blue moon does that do to enhance your horse's performance?

    This article seems to suggest it has the opposite effect - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8125896

    Is it accidental dosing?
    Life and times of a mediocre amateur...
    www.another-bay.com

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by Another-Bay View Post
      COCAINE?

      What in the blue moon does that do to enhance your horse's performance?

      This article seems to suggest it has the opposite effect - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8125896

      Is it accidental dosing?
      The cocaine was a previous violation. One of Jane Clark's horses. He didn't ride for her after that episode. It is a different drug this time. I'll look it up and come back with the substance.

      As for "accidental dosing", people often try to blame a positive cocaine test in a horse on "contamination" and they always put the blame on cocaine using grooms whom are apparently so well paid that they have enough left over cocaine on their hands to make a horse test positive.
      Last edited by skydy; Dec. 2, 2018, 04:10 AM.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        O-desmethylvenlafaxine. It is an anti-depressant drug for human use. Apparently horses have tested positive in racing and FEI disciplines and it is listed as a banned substance by the FEI.

        The cocaine incident was in the Olympic trials in 2011 or 2012. The last 8 paragraphs of this rather weirdly written article do get the point across, albeit in a circular fashion. https://www.equisearch.com/news/jane...ion-post-18888

        This is regarding the current issue https://horse-canada.com/horse-news/...suspended-fei/

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Knowing how stringent the FEI rules on drugs and medications are, and how fine the tests are at picking up trace amounts of banned substances, I am surprised that people (especially those that have had problems with banned substances in their horses before) are so lax in their monitoring of drug usage by their employees.

          Honestly, improve your management so that your grooms, who are either using illegal drugs or are taking prescribed drugs for a medical condition that are banned in competition horses, do not need to pee in an FEI horse's stall.

          It never seems to be the rider that is responsible for the accidental contamination of the horse resulting in the positive test. It's always "the groom".

          Comment


          • #6
            It's always the groom. Like it's always the butler...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by skydy View Post

              The cocaine was a previous violation. One of Jane Clark's horses. He didn't ride for her after that episode. It is a different drug this time. I'll look it up and come back with the substance.

              As for "accidental dosing", people often try to blame a positive cocaine test in a horse on "contamination" and they always put the blame on cocaine using grooms whom are apparently so well paid that they have enough left over cocaine on their hands to make a horse test positive.
              I believe in the cocaine incident the barn manager was listed as "trainer" and was let go after that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by gottagrey View Post

                I believe in the cocaine incident the barn manager was listed as "trainer" and was let go after that.
                That’s not the way I remember the story.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MHM View Post

                  That’s not the way I remember the story.
                  My apologies, when I posted I hadn't had all my coffee yet, barn manager fined/suspended, not fired.
                  Last edited by gottagrey; Dec. 3, 2018, 01:43 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by skydy View Post

                    The cocaine was a previous violation. One of Jane Clark's horses. He didn't ride for her after that episode. It is a different drug this time. I'll look it up and come back with the substance.

                    As for "accidental dosing", people often try to blame a positive cocaine test in a horse on "contamination" and they always put the blame on cocaine using grooms whom are apparently so well paid that they have enough left over cocaine on their hands to make a horse test positive.
                    Yeah, because when I think of grooms, I definitely think of high-rollers... sigh.

                    Thanks for the education!
                    Life and times of a mediocre amateur...
                    www.another-bay.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Are people being sarcastic? I do not know the history of MD's suspensions, but I don't think drugs are found in trace amounts in bedding or feed, or transmitted to the horses this way. At least in hunters, cocaine is known to be given by some trainers at shows at night to keep the horse awake so it's exhausted for show day. Then it gets to be the half-asleep, ammy-friendly, could-take-a-blind-monkey-on-its-back-hunter that makes us all wonder what happened to the hunter divisions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PKP View Post
                        Are people being sarcastic? I do not know the history of MD's suspensions, but I don't think drugs are found in trace amounts in bedding or feed, or transmitted to the horses this way. At least in hunters, cocaine is known to be given by some trainers at shows at night to keep the horse awake so it's exhausted for show day. Then it gets to be the half-asleep, ammy-friendly, could-take-a-blind-monkey-on-its-back-hunter that makes us all wonder what happened to the hunter divisions.
                        See, I had never heard of this use. Yikes.

                        Even if we are completing ignoring the horse's safety and wellness, I wouldn't want to ride a sleep-deprived/exhausted animal.
                        Life and times of a mediocre amateur...
                        www.another-bay.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PKP View Post
                          Are people being sarcastic? I do not know the history of MD's suspensions, but I don't think drugs are found in trace amounts in bedding or feed, or transmitted to the horses this way. At least in hunters, cocaine is known to be given by some trainers at shows at night to keep the horse awake so it's exhausted for show day. Then it gets to be the half-asleep, ammy-friendly, could-take-a-blind-monkey-on-its-back-hunter that makes us all wonder what happened to the hunter divisions.
                          I doubt this use of the drug would be done for a jumper? The drug testing is so sophisticated and remember there is a zero tolerance. There was an article I was reading the other day and unfortunately I can't locate the link but it outlined how indeed traces of meth/coc can be left by a third party and horses can ingest it. I think it included an incident where some QH were found positive and they traced it back to the trailer they had used.. I'll see if I can find the article and post it. It was interesting whether you say "wow, who knew" or hogwash.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PKP View Post
                            Are people being sarcastic? I do not know the history of MD's suspensions, but I don't think drugs are found in trace amounts in bedding or feed, or transmitted to the horses this way. At least in hunters, cocaine is known to be given by some trainers at shows at night to keep the horse awake so it's exhausted for show day. Then it gets to be the half-asleep, ammy-friendly, could-take-a-blind-monkey-on-its-back-hunter that makes us all wonder what happened to the hunter divisions.
                            For about 30 years I have heard this urban legend of using cocaine to make a horse quiet (since the first positive horse on record). Do you have any idea how much cocaine it would take to "keep a horse awake" long enough to make it tired the next day? Buckets. I have known many unscrupulous trainers that have used every thing under the sun, but have never once heard credible evidence that anyone did this. Old wives tale as far as I am concerned. These are the kind of conspiracy stories you hear from people who routinely end up 5th. Sorry but as someone with over 40 years in the hunter industry I simply don't buy it. Horses can indeed be contaminated by small amounts of substance due to the minuscule amounts of a substance that are prosecuted under zero tolerance.
                            www.midatlanticeq.com
                            Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
                            November 11-13, 2016

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There's a blues song from the 1920s: "Cocaine's for horses & it ain't for men, doc says it'll kill me but he don't say when, hey, hey, honey, take a whiff on me."

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by chunky munky View Post

                                For about 30 years I have heard this urban legend of using cocaine to make a horse quiet (since the first positive horse on record). Do you have any idea how much cocaine it would take to "keep a horse awake" long enough to make it tired the next day? Buckets. I have known many unscrupulous trainers that have used every thing under the sun, but have never once heard credible evidence that anyone did this. Old wives tale as far as I am concerned. These are the kind of conspiracy stories you hear from people who routinely end up 5th. Sorry but as someone with over 40 years in the hunter industry I simply don't buy it. Horses can indeed be contaminated by small amounts of substance due to the minuscule amounts of a substance that are prosecuted under zero tolerance.
                                Chunky Munky, I really hope you're right!! I've read posts on here alleging that it's done, and i think some people are just crazy enough to do it. But I'm relieved to know that it's an urban legend.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  What many people just don't understand, because they are not the type to drug their horses, is that some people will try anything if they think it may give them an advantage.

                                  Cocaine may not give a horse an advantage in competition, but some people (especially if they themselves partake of the drug) obviously believe it will, or are just willing to give it a try.

                                  With the minuscule number of riders tested for banned substances by both the FEI and USEF, there is no way of knowing who would test positive along with their horses.

                                  "Environmental contamination" will always be blamed on the groom, until riders are tested. Such testing is under the purview of both USEF and the FEI ,however both seem uninterested in finding the source of the "contamination" by increasing the drug testing of riders.

                                  Again, this is not rocket science. a) Don't take Meth or Cocaine. (The meth case was from a horse trailer that was previously a meth lab).

                                  b) Don't hire people who use illegal substances.

                                  If you are going to do either a) or b), for god's sake don't anyone pee in the horse's stall, and do, everyone, wash your hands after snorting your huge amount of powdered illegal drugs, since the minute amounts from your hands or urine are enough to be detectable in your horse.

                                  I can't believe we are having this conversation again.
                                  Last edited by skydy; Dec. 4, 2018, 03:10 AM.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18

                                    I wonder if he can still declare himself as an athlete for this summer's Pan-American Games

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Interesting article about drug residue in the Charles Town race track ship in stalls.
                                      https://nationalhbpa.com/an-in-depth...contamination/

                                      I wonder if the stalls at show grounds are just as contaminated and if there is enough contamination to cause positives in the next resident of that show stall.
                                      Last edited by SonnysMom; Dec. 4, 2018, 05:01 PM. Reason: typed another meant enough. need to proofread better
                                      Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by SonnysMom View Post
                                        Interesting article about drug residue in the Charles Town race track ship in stalls.
                                        https://nationalhbpa.com/an-in-depth...contamination/

                                        I wonder if the stalls at show grounds are just as contaminated and if there is another contamination to cause positives in the next resident of that show stall.
                                        WOW, just WOW

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X