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Eventer venturing into jumper land..help

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  • Eventer venturing into jumper land..help

    Long story short, my horse is probably not cut out to be an eventer and I'm hoping to do some show jumping for the next two years while I'm in school. However, frankly I wouldn't even know where to start, not training wise, but showing-so far I came up with the following questions and hopefully they're specific enough.

    How are most classes judged? Time? Faults? And how does the class with a jump off work?

    Do you pre-enter and mail them a check? Enter on the day off? How do you know what time you'll need to be there?

    I'm thinking about starting with some local schooling shows-what are some good shows around central VA? What's the lowest level at rated jumper shows and are there qualifications to go to one?

    Do I need to be a member of some association to attend the shows??


  • #2
    Originally posted by ebott2015 View Post
    Long story short, my horse is probably not cut out to be an eventer and I'm hoping to do some show jumping for the next two years while I'm in school. However, frankly I wouldn't even know where to start, not training wise, but showing-so far I came up with the following questions and hopefully they're specific enough.

    How are most classes judged? Time? Faults? And how does the class with a jump off work? - Classes are timed and depends on the class specifications for how faults are accumulated - i.e. faults converted into time ,or 0 jump /time faults proceed to jump-off. Best thing to do is get a hold of rule book and read the jumper specifications as most jumper classes list the level/height and Section X, Table X (and it's the Section/table that tells you how faults accrue)

    Do you pre-enter and mail them a check? Enter on the day off? How do you know what time you'll need to be there? that depends on what the show your going to prefers. Some local shows offer discounted fees for pre-entering, some don't so can enter the day of. With Hunters/jumpers you never know. General rule is to allow about an hour for each division. So if show starts at 8:-00 am, and you're in the 3rd division, you're probably safe to arrive around 9ish some shows will have breaks for course walks others do not. In H/J land you have to be prepared to hurry up and wait. So that 8:00 class could have 20 entries or 3, same with the next one. Often shows will have a "not to start before X time)

    I'm thinking about starting with some local schooling shows-what are some good shows around central VA? What's the lowest level at rated jumper shows and are there qualifications to go to one? Check the VHSA Associate show calendar to see what shows are near you..Lowest jumper level is around 0.70 meters (2'3") but that doesn't mean every show will offer the lowest or highest heights.

    Do I need to be a member of some association to attend the shows?? Depends on the show, for rated shows no but you'll pay nonmember fees to both USEquestrian and USHJA; for local shows it depends some have memberships where entry fees may be lower than nonmembers and/or must be a member to qualify for year-end awards.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ebott2015 View Post
      How are most classes judged? Time? Faults? And how does the class with a jump off work?
      I can't remember the different tables & sections, but most have a time allowed and rails/refusals are faults. If there's a jump off, it's usually immediate if you go clear in the first round. Some smaller classes (like under 3'6) have (had?) optimum time, rather than fastest time for winner. IIRC, it's only certain classes, like GP, where you return for jump off.

      Do you pre-enter and mail them a check? Enter on the day off?
      Depending on the show, you enter a few weeks/month or two in advance; more important if it's a busy show that sells out, or you may not get a stall or number. And some are not busy and will accept last-minute entries, but you'd probably have to call and check.

      Some shows want you to enter your class(es) at least the night before, so they have some idea of how long the show will run or if classes will fill, and some will accept late/day-of entries (some charge for this). Most like to know that you will at least be attending, even if you don't actually enter your division or classes early.

      Some venues/show management have prize lists online in this day and age, where you can check the jumper specs, stall or trailer-in fees (and various other fees), and your entries (which ones you are eligible for, height, what kind of class, what days it runs). Prize list should have info about memberships as well.

      Schooling shows are probably more informal than this, and may not require memberships, but it also depends on how well-attended they are and how they are run; some B shows are set up (and attended) pretty much like A shows, but somewhat cheaper and less/no braiding (for hunters/eq) and maybe 3-4 days instead of 5 days. I have not been to a one-day schooling show in a long time, but those seemed to be mainly run by trainer/host barn rather than a show management company, and more like "schooling" at a different venue and less like "showing", so trailering in and entering the day off was completely fine; IDK if it's the same now, or if they even still have these.

      How do you know what time you'll need to be there?
      A lot of shows nowadays will (or should!) post an approximate schedule, online the night before, or at least in the office in the morning. It's based on the entries (at about 2-3 minutes per round; and 10-15 minutes for flat classes -- not a thing for jumpers, but may be useful to know if your ring is used for both hunters/eq and jumpers; plus time for water/drag and course changes & walks).

      If you're not sure if there are 3 (smallest number to run a rated division, I believe; though some venues will run a class with 1 entry, but I'm not sure how the points work in that case) or 30 horses in the first class, and you're in the second class, I would get there earlier than later. I always think, if you're not sure, if you get there before the show starts, you cannot be late!

      If it looks like there are 4 or 5 classes before yours, it's probably safe to get there a little after the show starts (though I would try to check how many are entered in the classes at least, if there's no time schedule posted), but I would not count on a specific time. Exception would be if there is a posted order of go and that ring has priority and authorization to skip people if they miss their time slot. Otherwise gate conflicts and running late are very common in multi-ring h/j shows.

      Comment


      • #4
        All the above, plus make sure to sign in at the gate for your order of go in the morning before the show starts. Some shows really work off the sign up order, some are more flexible. But you'll be stuck at the end of every class if you don't sign in at the gate before the show starts.

        Also, you can jump your warm up jumps either way and sharing jumps isn't as common. Helps to have a grounds person set your warm up jump for you. Check in at the gate before you start warming up to make sure you have a place in line. I usually have my kids get on about 10-12 rounds out and jump around 5-7 rounds out (a round is approximately 2-3 minutes).

        Speed classes (Table II.1 or Table 2c) generally take less time to run than Table 2b. Table II.1 is a straight speed class with no jump off. Table 2c is an untimed first round and you continue to the second round immediately (c=continue) unless you have a fault in the first round (the judge with sound a tone if you should stop). Table 2b is timed first round, stop, and wait for the tone to begin your jump off (b=break). If you didn't jump clear in a 2b round, they won't sound a tone. Little confusing but you'll get it once you're doing it.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by sp56 View Post
          All the above, plus make sure to sign in at the gate for your order of go in the morning before the show starts. Some shows really work off the sign up order, some are more flexible. But you'll be stuck at the end of every class if you don't sign in at the gate before the show starts.

          Also, you can jump your warm up jumps either way and sharing jumps isn't as common. Helps to have a grounds person set your warm up jump for you. Check in at the gate before you start warming up to make sure you have a place in line. I usually have my kids get on about 10-12 rounds out and jump around 5-7 rounds out (a round is approximately 2-3 minutes).

          Speed classes (Table II.1 or Table 2c) generally take less time to run than Table 2b. Table II.1 is a straight speed class with no jump off. Table 2c is an untimed first round and you continue to the second round immediately (c=continue) unless you have a fault in the first round (the judge with sound a tone if you should stop). Table 2b is timed first round, stop, and wait for the tone to begin your jump off (b=break). If you didn't jump clear in a 2b round, they won't sound a tone. Little confusing but you'll get it once you're doing it.
          Question about the warm up--will there be a designated warmup area? I saw a lot of shows have ticketed warmup, what does that mean and usually how do I go about the warmup before my classes?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ebott2015 View Post

            Question about the warm up--will there be a designated warmup area? I saw a lot of shows have ticketed warmup, what does that mean and usually how do I go about the warmup before my classes?
            There is usually a designated warm up area that you would use before each class. There may only be a few jumps in it, so if there are a lot of entries in the class, you will need to work in with the others who are getting ready at the same time.

            A ticketed warm up is usually held in one of the show rings at a specific time, either before or after the classes for the day. You will be charged a set amount to practice in the show ring. Sometimes it is run with individual rounds over a posted course, and sometimes they will let in a few people at a time to practice over the jumps as they like. You might have five minutes in the ring to do whatever you like, or ten minutes, or what have you. It varies from show to show.

            You might want to attend a show once as a spectator first, to get an idea of how things usually go. It's also a good idea to communicate with the show management about the schedule to see when your classes might actually happen. If you're in the fifth class of the day, that could happen at 8:00 AM if there are no entries in the first four classes. Or it could be at 2:00 PM if there are lots of entries in the earlier classes. Any show manager is usually thrilled to see new people, so the manager or the secretary should be happy to help you.

            Comment


            • #7
              ebott2015

              I am a former eventer doing jumpers. Feel free to email me at Emily.daignault@gmail.com

              I have been through all the uncertainty that you're in now and I came out the other side just fine. There are lots of little pieces of knowledge that are not written down in any rules, manuals etc, but overall it's a lot easier than everything we had to know to event!!!

              And it's a ton of fun.

              Em
              "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries

              Comment


              • #8
                Find a jumper coach to help you, both in preparation AND at your first jumper shows. Your questions will be answered, and your chances for success increased. With guidance, you can learn as you go. Without guidance, you are dropped into the deep end of the pool.
                www.cordovafarm.weebly.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by sp56 View Post
                  Also, you can jump your warm up jumps either way and sharing jumps isn't as common.
                  Not always true! Some shows do flag, so just look for them. I had an embarrassing moment in KY last year...that's how I know! But, in general, this is correct. And I think another difference is with height. In eventing you can't school over something much bigger than the height at the level at which you are competing. I do not think there are restrictions like that for jumpers.

                  Mostly, a trainer or helper will "claim" a jump in the warmup ring and then make it whatever they want - xrail, vertical, oxer, one-stride - for their rider. In order not to annoy others, don't claim a jump until you are 3-4 horses out in the order.

                  There are rules about things like ground lines, placing poles, guide poles, etc.

                  Also, jump setter should not be touching any part of the jump when the rider is jumping it.

                  In lower levels, no saluting the judge is normally required.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another thought...look for jumper classes labeled as "Training" and/or Table II. These will be most similar to what you have been doing in eventing. There is a time allowed (usually not crazy tight) and if you keep all the jumps up, you will get a pretty blue ribbon! These were great classes for starting out...no jump-off or need for extreme speed. Good confidence builder.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My previous trainer used to have an eventer take the occasional a la carte lesson and she also joined us at shows until she became more familiar with the system. Perhaps this is something you could do - it would probably be helpful until you gain familiarity with how it all works.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm doing the opposite of you, I'm sticking a toe into the eventing world after years of jumpers! After you figure out what type of class it is (don't worry about learning all the types of classes there are, just look up the ones that they will do at the show you're going to - you usually only need to know at most 3 types at a single show, but usually only two), one of the biggest culture shocks will be the lack of ride times and knowing how many entries there will be - even with local shows with no penalties for scratching, that don't require prepayment, it seems like somehow the entries double the morning of. How you enter and pay varies completely from show to show - it will say in the prize list.

                        The schooling ring is a free-for-all, and can be stressful at a busy show especially if you don't have a helper on the ground - even if all they do is stand by a jump for you so that you can get in a few jumps before another trainer comes in and hogs it for 20 minutes while they adjust it to 8 different heights for their one student.

                        In all the shows I've been to in VA and MD, rated and unrated, classic round or not, no one has ever saluted the judge - you will likely have every custom of showing jumpers down by the time you ever have to worry about that.

                        As far as signing in goes, you will surely find yourself at the end of the order if you aren't checked in before the class starts, but it's not been my experience to have to check in before the show starts. Frequently, especially at lower heights, the person working the in-gate has to almost beg for someone to go first.

                        As for central VA shows - if you're closer to Richmond, the CVSJA schooling shows at Deep Run are very well attended and well run. If you're closer to Charlottesville, Farmington Hunt Club puts on 2-4 schooling shows each summer at different local farms that are more casually run but still very good to go to for starting out - if you flub some rule, it's a forgiving environment! Hazelwild in Fredericksburg offers some nice schooling shows (TWA series), and is one of the only places to go in the winter, they run them in their indoor. Kelly's Ford does some schooling shows too, but I can't personally speak to them. As far as I can tell, the only real qualification to attend a rated jumper show vs a schooling show is money - that is, unless you're looking for 2' and under, the rated shows start at .70m (2'3"). To my knowledge, there aren't any B/C rated jumper shows in VA, but there are pretty many A shows, which I wouldn't recommend to someone just starting out, unless you just love to spend your money. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more of the VA jumper scene.

                        All the different types of tables are really confusing at first but once you've ridden each type of round, it will make a lot more sense. It's fun to ride different types of rounds because you can play more with your strategy, vs. just going clean under time allowed every time. Good luck!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ebott2015 View Post

                          Question about the warm up--will there be a designated warmup area? I saw a lot of shows have ticketed warmup, what does that mean and usually how do I go about the warmup before my classes?
                          Ticketed warm up is a chance to get in the show arena without being judged. Some shows allow you to school in the arena before and/or after the show day. Others do not. It's kind of a nice thing to do if you have a green horse or need to school a horse for a client.

                          One thing I love about jumpers is the amount of practice you get at one show. Plus your trainer can get on if you get in a pickle. I think it builds a great amount of confidence, especially if you're working through a problem.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Legallygray86 View Post
                            As for central VA shows - if you're closer to Richmond, the CVSJA schooling shows at Deep Run are very well attended and well run. If you're closer to Charlottesville, Farmington Hunt Club puts on 2-4 schooling shows each summer at different local farms that are more casually run but still very good to go to for starting out - if you flub some rule, it's a forgiving environment! Hazelwild in Fredericksburg offers some nice schooling shows (TWA series), and is one of the only places to go in the winter, they run them in their indoor. Kelly's Ford does some schooling shows too, but I can't personally speak to them. As far as I can tell, the only real qualification to attend a rated jumper show vs a schooling show is money - that is, unless you're looking for 2' and under, the rated shows start at .70m (2'3"). To my knowledge, there aren't any B/C rated jumper shows in VA, but there are pretty many A shows, which I wouldn't recommend to someone just starting out, unless you just love to spend your money. Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more of the VA jumper scene.
                            I would second the CVSJA recommendation - I don't live in VA anymore, but friends frequent these shows and always say good things. Also, Culpeper (HITS) has baby jumpers (0.65m, 0.8m - 2'3, 2'6) as well - though I can't say it's the greatest run show and has many many mixed reviews. I will caveat the C'Pep rec by saying I haven't shown there since the early 2000s.

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