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Federal Fraud Case

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    I have also been ASKED that question more times than I can remember. The Agents and Attorneys involved in my case could not believe these guys were still allowed to show and be members of associations that KNEW they were continuing "business as usual". There were dozens of calls and complaints....but nothing was done.
    Debbie Hanson
    www.ratemyhorsepro.com


    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by northplaza:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by QueenMother:
      Was the FBI in prison or the horse in prison or the victim in prison or the defendants in prison?
      With your board name it isn't hard to understand why you think the grammar is the most pressing issue in this post.

      It sure is nice to be able to get to what is essential in a question, isn't it?

      You must be a real treasure to your friends. I hope when you are missing a horse you come across greater sympathy than that of which you are capable of expressing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      oh good lord, can't you all just act like grown-ups? is that really too much to ask?
      Different Times Equestrian Ventures at Hidden Spring Ranch
      www.DifferentTimesEquestrianVentures.com

      Comment


      • #43
        I'm sure it is just disallusionment but it does seem it is easier to stay in good standing if you are a convicted felon. When I see those who are honest and hard working suspended and/or fined it is a curious comment about our system.
        http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Couldn't agee more Snowbird!
          Debbie Hanson
          www.ratemyhorsepro.com


          Comment


          • #45
            I came into this sport as a dreamer. I believed in people and authority. I was a member when it grew and expanded and everyone honestly believed they had a fair chance to qualify and even to win at the most prestigious shows. Sometimes we even made it.

            I am heartbroken to see where it has all ended and the disenfranchisement of people who believe children should go to school, and that adults should work and horses were a recreational sport. A horse show was a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses.
            http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

            Comment


            • #46
              Your idealism is misplaced, I'm afraid. And I'm shocked that you are still so naive since you claim to be a battle scarred veteran. When were horse shows a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses? Maybe you thought that as a child but your parents knew better. And the fact that it never was such a place enables the likes of Josh and Keg to thrive. It's a dog-eat-dog world where even parents of short stirrups will pay exorbitant amounts for ponies and trainers. And because they are willing to go all the way, they turn off their common sense and put themselves completely in the hands of a trainer. It's only luck that more otherwise sane and sensible people aren't ripped off.

              Originally posted by Snowbird:
              I came into this sport as a dreamer. I believed in people and authority. I was a member when it grew and expanded and everyone honestly believed they had a fair chance to qualify and even to win at the most prestigious shows. Sometimes we even made it.

              I am heartbroken to see where it has all ended and the disenfranchisement of people who believe children should go to school, and that adults should work and horses were a recreational sport. A horse show was a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses.

              Comment


              • #47
                You know, if you're a licensed engineer in California you have to give up your license if you're convicted of a felony - any felony - even if totally unrelated to your practice of engineering.
                If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                Comment


                • #48
                  OH! my t8ksilk; There was a day. I was a teenage rider never went to a show and then with the help of Max Palmer I bought the old Montclair Stable in 1971 at the jolly age of 42 and started Suburban Essex as a tradition. We started showing and running shows and they were so pleasant. Trailers parked on Woodland Avenue and the neighbors loved us there.

                  Just think of this concept. At A shows they only ran the A-Rated Divisions therefore everyone else went to Local,C or B Rated Shows. My only previous show experience was on the parents committee at the old Junior Essex Troop Horse show. Just imagine everyone had to practically swim their horse across the brook in chest high water just to get to the grass outside course which was uphill and down hill over rolling knolls.

                  Just imagine everyone arriving at a show by 7:30 AM and knowing they would probably be in the last classes as well. We had canopies for all trailers large and small came with lovely tables set with dishes and glasses for breakfast and lunch. Flowers on the tables and chairs for everyone between classes shaded by the awning from the sun and kept dry there in the rain. That was when I discovered that children didn't melt if you left them out in the rain.

                  Kids played games in the back of the parking area and parents swilled old fashions or vodka/tonic and chips n' dip while they cooked or prepared fresh sandwiches (finger cut size). It was a wonderful family day out away from home usually on someone's lovely fields.Imagine no cell phones..rarely even a land line. A small generator for the PA System but no night lights. If the show ran late we parked the cars around the rings for light.

                  When you asked someone whee they were going the next day or the next week it was "you bring the burgers and I'll bring the beer".

                  Believe me there was a time not that long ago when a horse show was rather like a block party. BUT if you were rude to the secretary you didn't get an invitation. Show secretaries were treated kindly and bribed with home made cookies and cakes. It was not just in my dreams it was for real. All the Medal and Maclay riders became friends and cheered each other on. They all celebrated whoever won the blue for the day. Everyone who won their quota of blues got to show at least once in Madison Square Garden and the Medal Finals. Local shows meant something because you could have a Medal Class at them that would count. It was really hard to find a Medal Class with less than 20 in it. That's how I met Jonathan Soresi.

                  I can remember at winter shows when if the show finished early the trainers sat around playing cards because if they got home too early they might be compelled muck stalls. Nobody scratched when it rained; it was a training opportunity, no body stayed home if it snowed because there wasn't anything better to do if it snowed.

                  I can remember 300 kids running around the streets of Mahattan all night waiting to show a 5 AM with no schooling in Madison Square Garden. "AND IT WAS FUN!" I remember lunging our equitation horse on the sidewalk in front of the felt forum.

                  The horses were sparkling clean and braided BY THE RIDERS. What a concept?
                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #49
                    And the fact that it never was such a place enables the likes of Josh and Keg to thrive.
                    t8ksilk...did you have a bad dealings with them?
                    Debbie Hanson
                    www.ratemyhorsepro.com


                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by RNB:
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And the fact that it never was such a place enables the likes of Josh and Keg to thrive.
                      t8ksilk...did you have a bad dealings with them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      No, but I live and ride in the area where they were dealing (only know Josh by his relatively recent association with KB). I know someone who was "personally associated" with Keg; have heard all the stories, one about making a child ride in a show with a broken arm while the parents stood lamely by, etc., ad nauseum. Everyone observed all this nonsense going on, wondering why he had any clients let alone kept the ones he had. I attribute it to that bottom-line "need to win" mentality. Can't explain it otherwise. KB had a horrible reputation around here but kept selling the expensive horses (his or otherwise), kept taking kids to shows, kept up his antics with local organizations without apparent censure. I've heard that they are back on the scene despite what's happened. What other explanation is there? Stupidity can't be the only reason.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by Snowbird:
                        OH! my t8ksilk; There was a day. I was a teenage rider never went to a show and then with the help of Max Palmer I bought the old Montclair Stable in 1971 at the jolly age of 42 and started Suburban Essex as a tradition. We started showing and running shows and they were so pleasant. Trailers parked on Woodland Avenue and the neighbors loved us there.

                        Just think of this concept. At A shows they only ran the A-Rated Divisions therefore everyone else went to Local,C or B Rated Shows. My only previous show experience was on the parents committee at the old Junior Essex Troop Horse show. Just imagine everyone had to practically swim their horse across the brook in chest high water just to get to the grass outside course which was uphill and down hill over rolling knolls.

                        Just imagine everyone arriving at a show by 7:30 AM and knowing they would probably be in the last classes as well. We had canopies for all trailers large and small came with lovely tables set with dishes and glasses for breakfast and lunch. Flowers on the tables and chairs for everyone between classes shaded by the awning from the sun and kept dry there in the rain. That was when I discovered that children didn't melt if you left them out in the rain.

                        Kids played games in the back of the parking area and parents swilled old fashions or vodka/tonic and chips n' dip while they cooked or prepared fresh sandwiches (finger cut size). It was a wonderful family day out away from home usually on someone's lovely fields.Imagine no cell phones..rarely even a land line. A small generator for the PA System but no night lights. If the show ran late we parked the cars around the rings for light.

                        When you asked someone whee they were going the next day or the next week it was "you bring the burgers and I'll bring the beer".

                        Believe me there was a time not that long ago when a horse show was rather like a block party. BUT if you were rude to the secretary you didn't get an invitation. Show secretaries were treated kindly and bribed with home made cookies and cakes. It was not just in my dreams it was for real. All the Medal and Maclay riders became friends and cheered each other on. They all celebrated whoever won the blue for the day. Everyone who won their quota of blues got to show at least once in Madison Square Garden and the Medal Finals. Local shows meant something because you could have a Medal Class at them that would count. It was really hard to find a Medal Class with less than 20 in it. That's how I met Jonathan Soresi.

                        I can remember at winter shows when if the show finished early the trainers sat around playing cards because if they got home too early they might be compelled muck stalls. Nobody scratched when it rained; it was a training opportunity, no body stayed home if it snowed because there wasn't anything better to do if it snowed.

                        I can remember 300 kids running around the streets of Mahattan all night waiting to show a 5 AM with no schooling in Madison Square Garden. "AND IT WAS FUN!" I remember lunging our equitation horse on the sidewalk in front of the felt forum.

                        The horses were sparkling clean and braided BY THE RIDERS. What a concept?
                        Funny, I was there too and don't remember it entirely the way you do. Yes, we all had fun but there was always an underlying current of not being good enough; having temper tantrums when the ride didn't go as expected; challenges to the height of a pony owned by a young woman who just wanted to display the work she had put into the animal, when that pony was in the same class as someone's daughter's pony; huge amounts of money (by that day's standard) paid for a horse for a girl to ride Medal/McClay and it happening that the horse couldn't be ridden two feet without it rearing on the girl; kids getting drunk and stupid in the barn and at shows or show parties partly due to the pressure to win and partly due to the lack of parental supervision; other rumored antics between trainers and students; the list is endless. At the time, it was all fun but looking back on it, it seemed that the need to win took precedence over sportsmanship and good sense. Some of those kids were my friends and I'll bet a dollar to a donut that most of them don't ride anymore. And that's the shame of it because it should be a sport that one can enjoy for a lifetime or at least long after aging out of the "juniors". Your kids were given a legacy, most aren't so lucky.

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          Originally posted by t8ksilk:
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Snowbird:
                          OH! my t8ksilk; There was a day. I was a teenage rider never went to a show and then with the help of Max Palmer I bought the old Montclair Stable in 1971 at the jolly age of 42 and started Suburban Essex as a tradition. We started showing and running shows and they were so pleasant. Trailers parked on Woodland Avenue and the neighbors loved us there.

                          Just think of this concept. At A shows they only ran the A-Rated Divisions therefore everyone else went to Local,C or B Rated Shows. My only previous show experience was on the parents committee at the old Junior Essex Troop Horse show. Just imagine everyone had to practically swim their horse across the brook in chest high water just to get to the grass outside course which was uphill and down hill over rolling knolls.

                          Just imagine everyone arriving at a show by 7:30 AM and knowing they would probably be in the last classes as well. We had canopies for all trailers large and small came with lovely tables set with dishes and glasses for breakfast and lunch. Flowers on the tables and chairs for everyone between classes shaded by the awning from the sun and kept dry there in the rain. That was when I discovered that children didn't melt if you left them out in the rain.

                          Kids played games in the back of the parking area and parents swilled old fashions or vodka/tonic and chips n' dip while they cooked or prepared fresh sandwiches (finger cut size). It was a wonderful family day out away from home usually on someone's lovely fields.Imagine no cell phones..rarely even a land line. A small generator for the PA System but no night lights. If the show ran late we parked the cars around the rings for light.

                          When you asked someone whee they were going the next day or the next week it was "you bring the burgers and I'll bring the beer".

                          Believe me there was a time not that long ago when a horse show was rather like a block party. BUT if you were rude to the secretary you didn't get an invitation. Show secretaries were treated kindly and bribed with home made cookies and cakes. It was not just in my dreams it was for real. All the Medal and Maclay riders became friends and cheered each other on. They all celebrated whoever won the blue for the day. Everyone who won their quota of blues got to show at least once in Madison Square Garden and the Medal Finals. Local shows meant something because you could have a Medal Class at them that would count. It was really hard to find a Medal Class with less than 20 in it. That's how I met Jonathan Soresi.

                          I can remember at winter shows when if the show finished early the trainers sat around playing cards because if they got home too early they might be compelled muck stalls. Nobody scratched when it rained; it was a training opportunity, no body stayed home if it snowed because there wasn't anything better to do if it snowed.

                          I can remember 300 kids running around the streets of Mahattan all night waiting to show a 5 AM with no schooling in Madison Square Garden. "AND IT WAS FUN!" I remember lunging our equitation horse on the sidewalk in front of the felt forum.

                          The horses were sparkling clean and braided BY THE RIDERS. What a concept?
                          Funny, I was there too and don't remember it entirely the way you do. Yes, we all had fun but there was always an underlying current of not being good enough; having temper tantrums when the ride didn't go as expected; challenges to the height of a pony owned by a young woman who just wanted to display the work she had put into the animal, when that pony was in the same class as someone's daughter's pony; huge amounts of money (by that day's standard) paid for a horse for a girl to ride Medal/McClay and it happening that the horse couldn't be ridden two feet without it rearing on the girl; kids getting drunk and stupid in the barn and at shows or show parties partly due to the pressure to win and partly due to the lack of parental supervision; other rumored antics between trainers and students; the list is endless. At the time, it was all fun but looking back on it, it seemed that the need to win took precedence over sportsmanship and good sense. Some of those kids were my friends and I'll bet a dollar to a donut that most of them don't ride anymore. And that's the shame of it because it should be a sport that one can enjoy for a lifetime or at least long after aging out of the "juniors". Your kids were given a legacy, most aren't so lucky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          I just read this post and it seems more jaded than I meant it to be. My experience during that time kept me riding. It was the best time of my life despite all the stuff going on. Now I'm 30 some years older and still going, though I wonder why when the weather is cold and wet (have to say I stay in rather than go to the barn, most of the cold season). I have a wonderful horse, a great trainer, and still have the dream of "making it" most of the time. However, I have learned to put good sense before desire to win; have learned that my horse is a living, breathing being and more than a means to my end; and that there is a life with horses beyond showing, even though it's fun and exciting. So, Snowbird, you did provide that "feel good" opportunity for those that wanted it, even if there were (and are) negative factors at work.

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            Originally posted by t8ksilk:
                            I know someone who was "personally associated" with Keg; have heard all the stories, one about making a child ride in a show with a broken arm while the parents stood lamely by, etc., ad nauseum. Everyone observed all this nonsense going on, wondering why he had any clients let alone kept the ones he had. I attribute it to that bottom-line "need to win" mentality. Can't explain it otherwise. KB had a horrible reputation around here but kept selling the expensive horses (his or otherwise), kept taking kids to shows, kept up his antics with local organizations without apparent censure.
                            Exactly...no censure...why? Local organizations may be the answer...if it can be done. A grassroots movement could provide the USEF with a platform to vote on a NEW RULE CHANGE. I agree that a felony involving any dealing with a horse should be cause for an immediate suspension and a review by the show organizations.

                            I'm sure there are some old 'clients" of Josh and Keg that assumed that the show organizations policed there own. It is a false sense of reassurance that professional trainers are in "good standing" (implying that they are not convicted felons) with a show organization when apparently...nothing in the small print of the rule book addresses the problem. Is this industry wide? IS there a model of a code of ethics for an show organization working anywhere....I'd like to know.

                            Looking the other way is no way to deal with the dark side of this sport and only emboldens those who will play the game no matter the cost.


                            Joan Watt

                            Tellwynd - The Source for Reliable Champions


                            Tellwynd
                            Tradition of "Grande" Sporthorse Champions
                            GRANDE SOVEREIGN 2014 USEF 8th Leading HB Sire
                            & Sire of OWN IT - USEF National HB 3yo Champion

                            Grand Affiar, Grande Desire, GR Impression, Couture du Jour

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              I think part of the problem is that people try to be so P.C. No one wants to be the bad guy. No one wants to stir the pot. Well I do not mind. In fact....if I see either one at one of out local shows I sure as heck would not be quiet. In fact I have done it once before. I made a comment about a lame horse Josh was on and did not realize one of his clients was standing next to us. His client ran out into the ring and told him what I said. He had a little hissy fit. Well what I said was the truth. Any one with knowledge of what they have done, and rides or trains with them is stupid. I am not P.C. I think they are a joke and a hurt the rest of us in the horse buss.

                              Comment


                              • #55
                                Well perhaps t8ksilk that's the problem. Then there were more of us who had a passion for the horses then those who thought it was their human contest instead.

                                Those with the passion for the horses just didn't stand up against those who thought of a horse show as a vanity pageant for their benefit. If we had perhaps there would be less of that now.

                                Maybe I'm a pollyanna who lives in la la land but I don't think so. I really think the majority of "grassroots" people want a fair shot but it isn't the winning of a $3.00 piece of rayon that they care about. It's an honest competition. I don't think that's changed at all.

                                What is depressing is all those who cannot attend five day show after five day show don't have a chance at all. If you had the best horse and rider in the world you couldn't win anything. It's become a self sustaining private club at that level.

                                So, can we redesign for the rest of us who don't want to spend more than the price of our house on a horse or pony, who believe children should go to school and adults should have work to do. I'd like to believe we can do that.

                                All the evils come from the vanity where winning is what it's all for at any price. But the "special" people wouldn't be special if they didn't have us to beat. Just suppose we didn't play in their sandbox.
                                http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  Hasty you're seriously suggesting that anyone pleads guilty to save the government and the people money or time? They do it because they know they're guilty and this way they get a lighter punishment. It's still for their own selfish benefit not for ours.

                                  The government let's them plead to a lesser crime with less pain and suffering for the guilty not the victims. How many would plead guilty if they were not offered less jail time or no jail time? How many never see jail in spite of the severity of their crime?

                                  They can admit to murder but with mitigating circumstances which says they're not sorry at all except they got caught. We accept the lowest denominator of human behavior as permissable because they ate a twinkie, or the devil mae them do it, ot the bullet accidentally shot someone when they never intended to shoot.
                                  http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

                                  Comment


                                  • #57
                                    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Snowbird:
                                    Well perhaps t8ksilk that's the problem. Then there were more of us who had a passion for the horses then those who thought it was their human contest instead.

                                    Those with the passion for the horses just didn't stand up against those who thought of a horse show as a vanity pageant for their benefit. If we had perhaps there would be less of that now.

                                    Maybe I'm a pollyanna who lives in la la land but I don't think so. I really think the majority of "grassroots" people want a fair shot but it isn't the winning of a $3.00 piece of rayon that they care about. It's an honest competition. I don't think that's changed at all.

                                    What is depressing is all those who cannot attend five day show after five day show don't have a chance at all. If you had the best horse and rider in the world you couldn't win anything. It's become a self sustaining private club at that level.

                                    So, can we redesign for the rest of us who don't want to spend more than the price of our house on a horse or pony, who believe children should go to school and adults should have work to do. I'd like to believe we can do that.

                                    All the evils come from the vanity where winning is what it's all for at any price. But the "special" people wouldn't be special if they didn't have us to beat. Just suppose we didn't play in their sandbox.[/QUOTE

                                    Apparently you've found god or some higher being since the 70's. I was baiting you, Snowbird. the woman with the daughter who had a pony was you. The horse that was purchased that wasn't a Maclay horse was purchased at your barn. Perhaps you've forgotten. It was a long time ago.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Tsk! Tsk! We never had a valuable pony by today's standards or even the old standards we never had a real show pony. If you mean "Good Decision" he cost pennies and when he qualified for Devon the judges looked at him (a black Connamara) as so ugly they couldn't imagine how anything that wasn't Welsh could have gotten there. But, he was brave an scopey and he had a great jockey. He was a pony he got measured and had his card at 14.1 .Then of course there was our little Snowbird, she reared in the circle at the beginning of every class to shake Torri's hands loose so she could bolt. Always wanted to race her. Both the girl's shared our one Equitation Horse. Pocount did the Medal with Steffi in the 70's; with Torri in the 80's and with Jen Bond in the 90's. We got him only because Sandy Lobel told me George Morris said no Junior would ever be able to ride him and it's fun to prove the impossible is possible so he was cheap and even sound, went clean without drugs until he day he died.

                                      The only horse I can think of was ESP who was never a Medal Maclay Horse and who I never wanted to sell but I had to leave behind at the barn because Marvin Ruddy wouldn't let me have him. He was a horse that topped out at 3'0" and hated 3'6" because his hind end was weak and he just couldn't lift himself high enough to do 3'6". I tried to to trade a young healthy quarter horse for him after he broke down so we could retire ESP here on the farm but the owner turned me down. Steffi never used him for the Medal and Maclay. We found out pretty quickly that he just didn't have eight fences in him at 3'6". He surely, was never a jumper.

                                      We liked going to shows and sure it's more fun to win than lose if the competition is fair. But, we couldn't do five day shows then and we still can't do five day shows. If the rules were what they are today we'd have never qualified for anything.

                                      Sally Wheeler saw what was coming and I helped her to try and turn the tide. That's why there are Zone Horse Shows and that's why we made it the rule that no on who applied for Penn National could enter the Zone Horse Show. Do you remember the old "Hunter Incentive Committee"?

                                      You know it's really funny because it seems to me most of the barn kids you talk about are trainers now. Some with really big names. If it wasn't for the good times of those days I don't know if this sport would have ever gotten out of the backyards. And, maybe it shouldn't have!
                                      http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

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                                      • Original Poster

                                        #59
                                        Since I am one of the persons involved in this case I have been actively reading the posts not just on this thread but others as well. What I am interested in is other horse people who have been victimized in one form or another. The overwhelming majority of posts want the same thing....justice, accountability and their voices heard. After 7 years there are a few things that I have come to realize.

                                        The USEF is not a policing association and never will be. It took a long time to accept that fact. Most everyone at the AHSA/USEF who received calls from victims showed genuine concern and disgust at the goings on and wanted anything that had been done at a show given to then so they could do something. However, the majority of the dealings were done off show grounds or were not found out about until months later.....past the 30 day filing rule. Some of you have suggested some type of ethics committee or BBB. I certainly think something needs to be done, too many horses and owners are hurt by illegal activities.

                                        I know most readers have never heard of the case probably because it does not involve well known horses, trainers or owners. This is the main reason it went on for so many years, in so many states and affecting as many lives. As I stated before this case was the first of its kind in the Commonwealth of Virginia and many eyes are continuing to watch every new development.

                                        Many of the victims, myself included, banded together years ago to try to made a difference in the horse industry and feel we are doing so with this case. The Department of Justice has done everything in its power so far to help hold individuals accountable for their crimes. They are continuing to do so as I type. Josh and Keg plead guilty and were sent to federal prison. Josh has been released and Keg is scheduled for Dec 27th. The DOJ set up guidelines they are to follow during their 3 year probation which prohibits any horse related dealings/business/training/selling, etc. It is a document they have to sign. They can refuse and ask for a hearing before Judge Richard Williams which is what has happened during which time they can try to explain why they need to get back in the horse business. It is scheduled on Jan.6, 2006 in the Federal Court Bldg. in Richmond and is a public hearing. While the ruling will be in the judge's hands, the Dept of Justice WANTS to help us horse people. They realize there is no association we can report crimes of this nature to and they want to keep this from happening again. No, it will not stop many who are #$LL bent on getting money anyway they can but if it stops a few, then it's a start. The first step was holding them accountable, the second step needs to be restrictions and guidelines.

                                        Do I think people can be rehabilitated and turn over a new leaf? Certainly, but I would not want a child molester to be allowed to get a job at a day care or someone who has robbed a bank be able to get employement with the Federal Reserve. The day I open my newspaper to the classifieds and the only jobs listed ware horse related then I can understand the need for a hearing. Until then.......they should look elsewhere.

                                        Kim Anderson, Victim Specialist, with the Dept of Justice received many emails/letters from victims, parents, barn owners, etc. expressing their concerns regarding them getting back into the horse industry. I strongly urge anyone who would like to see these types of restrictions regarding horse related crimes kept in place to send an email to Kim stating so. It is an opportunity for horse people to say "Enough is enough"! There have been victims who have posted on this and other threads and I hope they will also send an email or letter to Kim. It is truely important!!! You do not have to be a victim to express your thoughts. The court needs to see just how many horse people want justice and accountability in our industry. It can set a standard in VA and show other states how to handle similar cases.

                                        I received a call from Kim Anderson today and I specifically asked her questions before posting information on this thread. She hopes to get more letters/emails. This may be your one opportunity to be heard so please do not let it pass by. I plan on being in Judge Williams courtroom on Jan 6th along with my daughter and others. We would welcome anyone who wants to observe. Whatever his decision I will post it on this thread. Hopefully it will be in favor of all of us who want the horse industry to be a better place, especially for the children.

                                        If you would like Kim's address please PT me and I will gladly pass it along.
                                        Debbie Hanson
                                        www.ratemyhorsepro.com


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                                        • #60
                                          I have a suggestion. I would like to see if there is anyone who can produce proposed Rule Changes for the USEF with clear terms and conditions that are definable and measurable. The rule must leave no room for ambiguity or discrimination.

                                          There are a great many of us who agree on the principle if not all about the specific people. It has always seemed to me this was possible if there was a general will to see it done. Rule Changes must be submitted on the prescribed forms before June of 2006.

                                          You should follow up with mass letters to all the Committees of the USEF because it will be a General Rule and not discipline or Breed specific. And, copies of all those letters with USEF Membership numbers to the entire Board of Directors.

                                          I am sure that the members of usAHSA would be pleased to be helpful with Media Releases. If it is done very publicly and with enough people I believe the time is right if we can devise the proper terminology. This is within the Regulatory authority of the USEF and what is in the best interests of the sport and the Federation.

                                          This is something long overdue and should get mass support. Although we do not as Members have a vote we do have a voice and I believe the Federation would listen. With tenacity and perserverence I think the principles can be defined to cover the elements of this issue.

                                          I think this may be an issue whose time has come.
                                          http://www.usAHSA.org and http://www.noreinstatement.org

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