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#metoo and Jimmy Williams

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    #metoo and Jimmy Williams

    No one has brought it up yet so I will. What do you think?

    i was disturbed to read this article, especially those saying that "it was just different then." But at the same time, it was and I can easily see this happening. The power dynamic between kids and their trainers is like Hollywood for many of us.

    I have mixed feelings about bringing this up when he is not here to defend himself. But the victims deserve the closure of talking about it too....so I don't know what to think.

    i am thankful for my ethical trainer as a kid, and still worship him! But he deserves it and never did anything like this to me.

    #2
    I just read the article. I do understand why people have concerns about him not being here to defend himself but then--does it really make a difference when the accusations are so numerous and credible? If he were here he'd likely deny it just as all currently-alive men now accused do. I do get why it makes things feel more complicated but really, to me it's still simple: he clearly did these things, these women should very well get the closure of talking about it now, and I think USEF made the right move stripping his name off of its lifetime achievement award.

    I just don't really think he deserves the benefit of the doubt given how substantiated these claims all are. He also clearly knew what he was doing was wrong so...as terrible as it sounds to tarnish a deceased person's memory, especially someone who made such immense contributions to our sport, he only has himself to blame.

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      #3
      Link to the article?
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        #4
        http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...ommon-betrayal

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          #5
          I thought it was a very well done article.
          ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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            Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
            I thought it was a very well done article.
            I thought it was much better done than the Eventing version. It presented both sides, for one....though obviously his side cannot include his comments.

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              #7
              Heartbreaking for all the women affected.
              The stories of the T-Rex Eventer

              Big Head, Little Arms, Still Not Thinking It Through

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                #8
                Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                I thought it was much better done than the Eventing version. It presented both sides, for one....though obviously his side cannot include his comments.
                Agreed. It was well written and presented in a pretty unbiased manner which is hard to do on such a topic. The author has good journalistic skills and obviously put in a lot of work. The tie into safe sport and safe guards now I thought brought a lot more to the story as well.

                Tough topic. Good to shine a light on the issue. And it really is in all sports.
                ** Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip. ~Winston Churchill? **

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                  #9
                  Well written, and all the more powerful because of it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm feeling sick.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Saskatoonian View Post
                    Well written, and all the more powerful because of it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm feeling sick.
                    Two of us at the barn who rode in the same era and knew or at least rode in the same era as all of the women quoted had pretty much the same reaction.

                    The piece by DiAnn Langer is also well worth a read.
                    The Evil Chem Prof

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                      I thought it was much better done than the Eventing version. It presented both sides, for one....though obviously his side cannot include his comments.
                      What was the Eventing version?

                      Comment

                        Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by MHM View Post
                        What was the Eventing version?
                        A very popular eventing rider, trainer, commentator was accused of inappropriate behavior and it was not handled as well, but he is still living. I am not naming him here only because every other mention has resulted in the name being edited out.

                        tha article left it anonymous but the accuser stated she wanted to name names and COTH declined.

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                          #13
                          Credible complaints made, indeed! I mean Anne Kursinski!?! The woman is a multiple time Olympic medalist and has nothing left to prove - or to lose for that matter. When I saw she was one of the victims to come forward, and of course among the other reports that were so eerily similar, this was obviously no conspiracy theory. I understand he is not here to defend himself and another credible source (Hutchison) swears by his conduct, but the article also mentioned Hutchison began dating the man at 18 (Williams being 55) and that in itself speaks high volumes of corruption alone. As a predator, he likely practically brainwashed Susie without her even realizing it, not even being able to recognize the abuse today. As said, it was different times back then and most probably thought nothing of it, but better late than never in my opinion. The point of the article was to create awareness and I think the Chronicle did a super job in not bashing the crap out of Jimmy, but still clearly making a serious statement in regards to the well being of us as riders.

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                            #14
                            It's a really well done article, thoughtfully written about a difficult subject.

                            I grew up riding in southern California, and as the article notes, he is a trainer of trainers. That means that a huge percentage of people who rode hunters from say the 60s-90s rode with one of his students (including me). I have the concept of a "grand-trainer" meaning that I find that two professionals who rode with the same trainer have many techniques in common and he is one who definitely leaves a stylistic mark on everyone he taught. His influence is just tremendous in Southern California, more so back in the day.

                            People like him with similar histories (note description of "Ladies' Man" ugh) built our sport. Many professional horsemen have only one mentor, who taught them what it meant to be a professional in our sport and in life, and the truth is many of those people were abusive. We need to separate the good things they taught us from these elements that are not good and need to be discarded from the next generation. I think it's a terrific thing that the training is now even available to equestrians.

                            It looks like anyone can take the training here: https://www.usef.org/compete/resourc...ons/safe-sport
                            If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

                              A very popular eventing rider, trainer, commentator was accused of inappropriate behavior and it was not handled as well, but he is still living. I am not naming him here only because every other mention has resulted in the name being edited out.

                              tha article left it anonymous but the accuser stated she wanted to name names and COTH declined.
                              I thought it was Eventing Nation, not COTH?
                              Only two emotions belong in the saddle: One is a sense of humor. The other is patience.

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post

                                I thought it was Eventing Nation, not COTH?
                                http://eventingnation.com/metoo-a-le...a-young-rider/

                                and

                                ??????http://eventingnation.com/anonymous-...ke-your-power/
                                Last edited by SpartanVirtue; Apr. 4, 2018, 07:14 PM. Reason: 2 letters

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                                  #17
                                  I'd be interested in knowing just how many young riders from the 1960s and 1970s did not, at some point, have similar experiences with older horsemen. In my teenaged years, there was a local man who seemed to have been known for inappropriate behavior with young, female riders. The response from the adults who knew of his proclivities was to chaperone whenever possible and to caution girls not to be alone with him. He continued to be a "respected" trainer in the local horse world; that is to say that he was not shunned or ousted from positions of prominence.

                                  There was also a local gay trainer with the same reputation for inappropriate behavior with young riders who was treated the same way by the local riding community. IIRC, he had a lot of young, female riders to train and coach because he was considered "safe".

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                                    #18
                                    There are still trainers like this doing a booming business. I can think of one in NJ who was well into his 40's and started an affair with a student when she was 14-15. Her parents were never around, they paid the bills and shipped her off to shows. He was also banging everyone else he could at the time, the younger the better. Everyone knew it was going on, but what could we do? He eventually married one of the girls. It still creeps me out.

                                    Comment

                                      Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by bugsynskeeter View Post

                                      I thought it was Eventing Nation, not COTH?
                                      There was an extensive thread on it in the Eventing forum and COTH mods repeatedly deleted the name from posts. Quite a few posters named the accused, all deleted. The accused sounds litigious so I don't really blame them but it is disappointing to have that "policy" then discarded when the accused is deceased.

                                      i am not in camp Accused, to be clear...I just feel the Eventing thread should have not been altered. Full disclosure, I was sexually harassed at horse events by two employees but never a BNT. In some ways that is very hard because there are no witnesses and nobody cares if a random groom grabs your ass and boobs multiple times, always at weird times like 5 am at the wash rack when you both have greys to groom.

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                                        #20
                                        I think most of us can relate to the lengths we would go to have horses in our lives. I am glad we seem to have finally come to the point where this sort of thing will not be tolerate. Thank you COTH for taking a stand by printing this article. One of the best pieces I have ever seen you publish.
                                        McDowell Racing Stables

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