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#metoo and Jimmy Williams

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  • JoeyJoey
    replied
    Originally posted by poltroon View Post

    I'm sure they don't want to lose the property in a settlement or in any other action, but it's not about a personal loss to their personal finances, but a loss of the facility to the membership and the horse community as a whole. You suggested that the board members had a personal financial equity stake in the property and that's just not true.
    No - that is 100% true. If you take an "equity" membership level you have a financial stake in the property and will be receive a check for your portion when the property is sold. Only equity members (there is an associate membership which is cheaper and does not involved property stake) are allowed to be on the board - SO the people who have a financial stake in the property are the ones making the decisions on making the place safe....what a joke & highly illegal. It is one of the most unsafe facilities for both horse and rider in this town on so many levels. The manager has been there for over 20 years and was well aware of the Jimmy Williams issues.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    Here's an interesting piece on the author of the NYT article on Flintridge and how the article came to be written. Some of comments are kind of interesting, notably the one by West Coast Real Person.
    The Journalist and the Equestrian https://nyti.ms/2LGApZU?smid=nytcore-ios-share

    Not sure if this warrants its own thread?
    Last edited by Peggy; Jul. 12, 2018, 01:18 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by ynl063w View Post

    This is a really crazy, naive statement. To think that a big problem in sexual harassment is just old men, and their dying off will put a dent in the problem for women today might be one of the nuttiest things I've ever heard.
    Hmm... I'm not usually accused of being crazy or stupid. Today was a special one for me, I guess.

    I think the sheer dying off of the worst of the clueless offenders-- perhaps made that way during a time when women were given less regard as equals-- is a necessary condition for diminishing sexual harassment and assault. I did *not* say it was a sufficient condition.

    There is a difference. When you have figured out what that is and read I wrote, then you can call me nutty or crazy or naive.

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by MHM View Post
    Do you not think there is an equal percentage of young men coming along with the same inclinations?
    Perhaps, but it's so much more acceptable to have them put back into line these days. I really think we live in a less sexist era than in the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • RugBug
    replied
    Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post
    You are misunderstanding what mvp said, which was more about how particular world views or behaviours have over time, changed or diminished. This is true of many "social ills". When the first chronicle article was published on Williams this spring i paraphrased Oprah Winfrey's answer to further stamping out racism, which is sometimes you just have to wait for people to die.

    It is really crazy to think that beliefs and ideologies haven't and don't change over time.
    sure. Just like racism has died off with all those dead white men n the last couple hundred years. Oh....wait....nevermind

    people will die. Beliefs and ideologies will change...but if that's our biggest hope, we're screwed.

    Leave a comment:


  • ladyj79
    replied
    You are misunderstanding what mvp said, which was more about how particular world views or behaviours have over time, changed or diminished. This is true of many "social ills". When the first chronicle article was published on Williams this spring i paraphrased Oprah Winfrey's answer to further stamping out racism, which is sometimes you just have to wait for people to die.

    It is really crazy to think that beliefs and ideologies haven't and don't change over time.

    Leave a comment:


  • ynl063w
    replied
    Originally posted by mvp View Post

    Jesus. But also, yeah... that's one way things get taken care of. Honest to God, demography will take care of some of this. There are a lot of handsy old men out there who have gotten away with what they did/do for so long that all that is left is for them to expire. Ask female workers in nursing homes about this.
    This is a really crazy, naive statement. To think that a big problem in sexual harassment is just old men, and their dying off will put a dent in the problem for women today might be one of the nuttiest things I've ever heard.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    Originally posted by Capall View Post

    That's what the #metoo movement is trying to change. Start teaching boys and girls from a young age about consent. Stop telling girls things like "He's mean because he likes you" and teach that touching others without their permission is not OK.
    I hope that will be an effective approach. The idea that the problem will die off with the current crop of dirty old men sounds a little overly optimistic to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peggy
    replied
    Originally posted by Mara View Post
    Well, Kenneth Kraus was found dead in his home last week, so there's one less predator to worry about.
    And John Lipari died last Friday. Down two.

    Leave a comment:


  • Capall
    replied
    Originally posted by MHM View Post
    Do you not think there is an equal percentage of young men coming along with the same inclinations?
    That's what the #metoo movement is trying to change. Start teaching boys and girls from a young age about consent. Stop telling girls things like "He's mean because he likes you" and teach that touching others without their permission is not OK. Talk to the adults in your kids' lives that hugs and kisses are not to be forced upon the kids. I had some offended relatives but guess what? In the end they understood and my girls would hug them when they were ready. My girls have also been firm with boys who have tried to hug and grab them. They have been taught to be firm and that punching someone who won't take no for an answer is OK. A firm "Please do not touch me" has worked really well so far!

    Leave a comment:


  • MHM
    replied
    Originally posted by mvp View Post

    Jesus. But also, yeah... that's one way things get taken care of. Honest to God, demography will take care of some of this. There are a lot of handsy old men out there who have gotten away with what they did/do for so long that all that is left is for them to expire. Ask female workers in nursing homes about this.
    Do you not think there is an equal percentage of young men coming along with the same inclinations?

    Leave a comment:


  • mvp
    replied
    Originally posted by Mara View Post
    Well, Kenneth Kraus was found dead in his home last week, so there's one less predator to worry about.
    Jesus. But also, yeah... that's one way things get taken care of. Honest to God, demography will take care of some of this. There are a lot of handsy old men out there who have gotten away with what they did/do for so long that all that is left is for them to expire. Ask female workers in nursing homes about this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mara
    replied
    Well, Kenneth Kraus was found dead in his home last week, so there's one less predator to worry about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mardi
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeyJoey View Post

    FRC is a VERY unsafe & secretive environment for both rider and horse...
    How is it unsafe for the horses ?

    Leave a comment:


  • poltroon
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeyJoey View Post

    Not sure if that is correct because they are walking around telling people they don't want to get sued and lose the property in a settlement. The board is riding a very fine legal line because they are not impartial and are protecting the money/value.
    I'm sure they don't want to lose the property in a settlement or in any other action, but it's not about a personal loss to their personal finances, but a loss of the facility to the membership and the horse community as a whole. You suggested that the board members had a personal financial equity stake in the property and that's just not true.

    Leave a comment:


  • RugBug
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeyJoey View Post
    At LAEC there is a trainer who is notorious for telling moms that if they sleep with him, their kid will ride for free. He is an abusive bully who clearly has a thing for young girls.
    Can you help me understand this because your syntax is unclear? Trainer offers to sleep with the moms (gross, but not necessarily illegal unless it approaches harassment) or trainer is trying to sleep with young girls, or both?

    Leave a comment:


  • Janet
    replied
    I do not know about 501 (c) (7), but I DO know that being a 501 (c) (3) doesn't stop anyone from suing you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mac123
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeyJoey View Post
    At LAEC there is a trainer who is notorious for telling moms that if they sleep with him, their kid will ride for free. He is an abusive bully who clearly has a thing for young girls.
    So have you reported this trainer to Safe Sport or not?

    Leave a comment:


  • JoeyJoey
    replied
    Originally posted by poltroon View Post

    Flintridge Riding Club has been incorporated as an non-profit (I think 501(c)(7)) since 1935. Generally, the law would require that on dissolution that the assets of a 501c7 are distributed back to the members. The value of Flintridge is clearly the raw real estate parcel which would be unaffected by any scandal involving Williams.
    https://www.guidestar.org/profile/95-0739600
    Not sure if that is correct because they are walking around telling people they don't want to get sued and lose the property in a settlement. The board is riding a very fine legal line because they are not impartial and are protecting the money/value.

    Leave a comment:


  • poltroon
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeyJoey View Post

    It wasn't and isn't being handled correctly because every board member has an equity stake in the property and they don't want to lose their million dollar investments. They are all waiting for the day the property is sold to JPL for their big pay out. As long as a Board is made up of self-dealing people (highly illegal by the way), it will never work properly. They deserve to be sued. FRC is a VERY unsafe & secretive environment for both rider and horse - even today with the board that is currently in place. I hope all the victims are talking and banding together to sue the place.
    Flintridge Riding Club has been incorporated as an non-profit (I think 501(c)(7)) since 1935. Generally, the law would require that on dissolution that the assets of a 501c7 are distributed back to the members. The value of Flintridge is clearly the raw real estate parcel which would be unaffected by any scandal involving Williams.
    https://www.guidestar.org/profile/95-0739600

    Leave a comment:

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