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#metoo and Jimmy Williams

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    #41
    Originally posted by fair judy View Post
    The fear that others would defend my now deceased attacker kept me silent. I approached COTH about a story after me too blew up. He is dead. ................ attacked me in a feed stall at the Branchville Horse Show eons ago. I heard about others over the years. I knew some younger ( much) girls who he groomed. We all never said a thing. Right now I am staring at post reply thinking, I'm not in the business anymore..... Should I? CAN I ? Posting this without a name. GUTLESS woman.....I will do this. It hasn't stopped. The shows are a Petrie dish. Barney Ward. I am Sarah Hochschwender.
    I posted about Barney Ward in the earlier #MeToo thread a couple of months ago--but I didn't name him. I did not because I was telling a friend's story, not my own. I *thought* from what I was told at the time (1970s) that the encounters were consensual. But speaking as a teenage girl who was part of the show circuit at the time, he was widely known to target young girls.

    Kudos to you for speaking out, Sarah Hochschwender.
    www.laurienberenson.com

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      #42
      Originally posted by fair judy View Post
      The fear that others would defend my now deceased attacker kept me silent. I approached COTH about a story after me too blew up. He is dead. ................ attacked me in a feed stall at the Branchville Horse Show eons ago. I heard about others over the years. I knew some younger ( much) girls who he groomed. We all never said a thing. Right now I am staring at post reply thinking, I'm not in the business anymore..... Should I? CAN I ? Posting this without a name. GUTLESS woman.....I will do this. It hasn't stopped. The shows are a Petrie dish. Barney Ward. I am Sarah Hochschwender.
      Not gutless....BRAVE woman! It infuriates me that these predators can take such sick, selfish advantage of a girl's passion for horses. Or any sport really - gymnastics, fencing....

      WHY didn't the measure to require SafeSport training for anyone signing a show entry as trainer pass?

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

        Usually from ugly ass women who have never once had to go through this. I don't mean to say that in a mean way, but it is something I have observed in comments since the #metoo movement started.

        Consider yourself lucky if you have never been through it. I do not understand how women can judge other women (who were kids at the time) in such a way.
        I agree with your sentiment: the defending comments are irking. However, objective physical attractiveness (if there is such a thing) is NOT a predictor of whether one will be a victim of sexual assault, and I find it really, really, really disturbing that you suggest that it is.

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post

          A very popular eventing rider, trainer, commentator was accused of inappropriate behavior and it was not handled as well, but he is still living. I am not naming him here only because every other mention has resulted in the name being edited out.

          tha article left it anonymous but the accuser stated she wanted to name names and COTH declined.
          On the point of being quiet about the perps.

          1. Because the guy is dead and can't defend himself.

          2. Because the guy is alive and......

          WTF, exactly?

          My #MeToo includes so many people-- the pervy perps and the on-lookers (men and women) who trotted out the "this is just how he is" excuse. And, "Well, times were different then," You can't have it both ways where you make it hard to judge past behavior by present standards (that seems unfair).... but also condone bad behavior as its occurring, too. Perhaps people would have spoken out (and a few did) while Williams was alive and "able to defend himself" if the accusers were more readily believed or helped.

          I'm losing no sleep worrying about granting justice for a guy who thought is was OK to french kiss 11 year olds. All things being equal, I think he got the better end of that deal than did the girls he molested.
          The armchair saddler
          Politically Pro-Cat

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by Evntr4Life View Post
            I understand he is not here to defend himself and another credible source (Hutchison) swears by his conduct, but the article also mentioned Hutchison began dating the man at 18 (Williams being 55) and that in itself speaks high volumes of corruption alone. As a predator, he likely practically brainwashed Susie without her even realizing it, not even being able to recognize the abuse today. As said, it was different times back then and most probably thought nothing of it, but better late than never in my opinion. The point of the article was to create awareness and I think the Chronicle did a super job in not bashing the crap out of Jimmy, but still clearly making a serious statement in regards to the well being of us as riders.
            Meh,,,, I think we ought to give women credit for choosing whom they date. I mean, it deprives women of autonomy and power if we think she would willingly choose a Good Guy and be a victim if she chose a bad guy. Give a gal credit for potentially having bad taste! I couldn't tell you which was the truth in Hutchison's case. But here's the thing. When she gave this statement (in the present), she is a grown woman and no one has more authority than she to tell you about why she dated Williams. That's none of our business; we have to grant adults autonomy.
            The armchair saddler
            Politically Pro-Cat

            Comment


              #46
              In regards to the SafeSport measures, I think training for professionals would be great. However, it sounds like its just a couple online courses. I do not think that will actually deter the perpetrators. What I think would help would be to actually require any minor and their guardian/parent that signs up for a USEF membership to undergo a second set of training in what is considered unacceptable behavior, and that they have the right and power to report it, showing them exactly what they can do and how to do it. That I think would bring potentially more change. Adults currently undergo sexual harassment training all the time. It does not deter those who are the perpetrators as the me too movement clearly shows. The victims are the ones with the power to report. The perpetrators aren't going to report themselves.

              We have to give the victims the power of reporting and action. I think training them might be a more effective way to go. I realize this might be tricky for very young kids, but so is navigating sexual assault. I'm sure there could be some compromise reached with the parent/guardian to get something done!
              Last edited by MtnDrmz; Apr. 5, 2018, 11:58 AM. Reason: Technical Difficulties
              Always be yourself. Unless you can be a unicorn. Then ALWAYS be a unicorn.

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post

                It really irks me when the defending comments come up. It upsets me to the core. Usually from ugly ass women who have never once had to go through this. I don't mean to say that in a mean way, but it is something I have observed in comments since the #metoo movement started.

                Consider yourself lucky if you have never been through it. I do not understand how women can judge other women (who were kids at the time) in such a way.
                Ugly-ass women? Really?

                1. The in-fighting among women has got to stop.

                2. Even ugly women are prey for sexual predators.

                You are just wrong in your theory as to why some women don't believe and support others. But see #1, which you are practicing. You are, in fact, being mean. That must be obvious to you. Stop it.
                The armchair saddler
                Politically Pro-Cat

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by vineyridge View Post
                  I'd be interested in knowing just how many young riders from the 1960s and 1970s did not, at some point, have similar experiences with older horsemen.
                  I didn't.

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Sorry, technical difficulties
                    Always be yourself. Unless you can be a unicorn. Then ALWAYS be a unicorn.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      It is always important to bring to the forefront sexual abuse in any form regardless of when it happened or who did it or who is a survivor. But it is tough to talk about in public and hard to comprehend when one is a teenager....well written story; my heart breaks for the ones who survived Jimmy. Not all top of the line trainers are who they purport themselves to be......
                      Bethe Mounce
                      Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                      https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                      Brentwood CA

                      Comment


                        #51
                        Victim shaming by the railbirds who have not endured sexual assault needs to be taken care of by moderators, please.
                        Bethe Mounce
                        Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                        https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                        Brentwood CA

                        Comment


                          #52
                          Arthur Boxall, Nairobi, Kenya was my me# person. We all tried to avoid an encounter with him and his roaming hands.
                          kenyagirl

                          Comment


                            #53
                            Originally posted by Bethe Mounce View Post
                            It is always important to bring to the forefront sexual abuse in any form regardless of when it happened or who did it or who is a survivor. But it is tough to talk about in public and hard to comprehend when one is a teenager....well written story; my heart breaks for the ones who survived Jimmy. Not all top of the line trainers are who they purport themselves to be......
                            Except this seems to be exactly the sort of person JW purported himself to be. It's just that the people with the power and position to go after him didn't. So now we are blaming barely teenaged girls. I say barely teenaged because it appears from the article that once they got a little older ie older juniors, they were "too old".
                            Let me apologize in advance.

                            Comment


                              #54
                              Originally posted by ladyj79 View Post

                              Except this seems to be exactly the sort of person JW purported himself to be. It's just that the people with the power and position to go after him didn't. So now we are blaming barely teenaged girls. I say barely teenaged because it appears from the article that once they got a little older ie older juniors, they were "too old".
                              I was not in America when Jimmy was popular so never heard of him until I returned and most who spoke of him, spoke in glowing terms about his horsemanship....but always with a tad of a shadow lurking as if he wasn't all that and then some. We cannot blame teenage girls or any survivor of sexual assault; victim shamers are, in my opinion, railbirds at a horse show with insecurities. Jimmy liked little girls up to a certain age. Susie Hutchison didn't, from what she has said, endure anything; but others have. I believe Susie, I believe all the survivors. I believe Jimmy forced himself on those innocent young girls and he knew exactly what he was doing; but how does one come forward when one is talking about "the Jimmy Williams?" No matter when any of this occurred, I applaud every single woman who survived his assaults for telling their story to ALL of us.
                              Bethe Mounce
                              Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                              https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                              Brentwood CA

                              Comment


                                #55
                                I am a survivor of sexual assault in the work place; an office. Not in the equine industry. To every person who rides.....stay safe, report anything you are uncomfortable with no matter what name that trainer has in the industry. Report what you see; report what you hear. We're gonna have to self police and put those trainers on notice that are still assaulting that their TIME IS UP!
                                Bethe Mounce
                                Head Trainer, AmeriCan Romance Equestrian
                                https://www.facebook.com/AmericanRomanceEquestrian
                                Brentwood CA

                                Comment


                                  #56
                                  Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                                  Usually from ugly ass women who have never once had to go through this.
                                  Bordering on "what were you expecting when you wore that [insert any number of "scandalous" items of clothing]?" Abuse often has very little to do with what women look like and more to do with access and an imbalance of power.

                                  Not helpful.

                                  Comment


                                    #57
                                    I admire COTH for being willing to print this article, including the identify of someone so well known. And its not surprising at all that USEF was unwilling to explain why they renamed their trophy, so typical of that group.

                                    Sarah Hochschwender, you are very brave, thank you for speaking up. I'm so sorry for what you and others had to go through. Barney Ward was a pig and I saw first hand his cruelty to animals when we were stabled next to him at some shows during the 1960s-70s when he was a big deal.

                                    Comment


                                      #58
                                      This is so sad. To think I was envious of my friend who got to ride at Flintridge while my folks could "only" afford LA Children's Riding Center and could in no way afford to own or lease a horse. Thinking back, now I understand her reaction when I said I wished we could trade places. As a working student for another trainer, I got to hang out there sometimes and watch the great JW at work with the horses. So, so sad.

                                      Jealoshe, I am an "ugly*** woman and was an ugly*** girl; it did not stop my sister's boyfriend from raping me (he was in his 20's, I was 14) and it did not stop other men from trying to "force" themselves on me in a variety of work-related venues. From pimps on the public bus, to barn workers, to cooks, to professors, I learned to fend off unwanted advances and to speak up when need be. Yes the 70's and 80's were a very different time and I did not report most of the incidents, but I carried a knife at all times from age 12 on and I knew how to use it. I regret that i never told anyone about my sister's bf until many, many years later and even now, my sister does not know what he did because he is decades gone from our lives. I do know I am stronger for what I went through and, I have never felt like a victim. I feel so bad for those who do.

                                      Btw, it is not just young women who are assaulted, molested or whatever. This also happens to boys and we do not seem to take it near as seriously--especially when it's an adult female pedophile going after adolescent boys. I witnessed that as well in my high school, and while nothing was ever made public, said teacher was promptly dismissed. The boys joked about it, but having her rub her breasts against their faces in class could not have been a "comfortable" situation.

                                      Comment


                                        #59
                                        Originally posted by Jealoushe View Post
                                        Usually from ugly ass women who have never once had to go through this. I don't mean to say that in a mean way...
                                        WTF???

                                        Point 1: You don't mean to say that in a mean way? It isn't possible to make an ugly ass comment like that without being mean.

                                        Point 2: Even us ugly ass women get sexually harassed and, when we were ugly ass teens and pre-teens, we also got molested by pedophiles and sexual predators, just like the pretty girls.

                                        Wow.

                                        "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                        that's even remotely true."

                                        Homer Simpson

                                        Comment


                                          #60
                                          Sue B and it happens to elderly women as well. Sexual assault is rarely about 'attraction'.
                                          Let me apologize in advance.

                                          Comment

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