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Update to Forum Rules: Criminal Allegations

In our continuing effort to provide an avenue for individuals to voice their opinions and experiences, we have recently reviewed and updated our forum policies. Generally, we have allowed users to share their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, trainers, etc. within the industry, and that is not changing.

When it came to overt criminal allegations, however, those discussions have in the past needed to stem from a report by a reputable news source or action by law enforcement or the legal system.

We are now expanding our policies to allow posters to share their own first-hand experiences involving overt criminal allegations, such as animal abuse or neglect, theft, etc., but only if they publicly provide their full first and last name along with the post. We still will not allow anonymous postings alleging criminal activity.

So, a user may now make a specific claim against a named individual or company, but it must be a FIRST-HAND account, and they have to IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. Users have always been legally responsible for their posts, and nothing has changed there, but we want to loosen the reins a bit and further allow the free flow of discussion and information relevant to the horse community.

We are not providing a free-for-all of anonymous rumor-mongering. As enduring advocates for the welfare of the horse, we want to provide a forum for those willing to sign their name and shine a light on issues of concern to them in the industry.

The full revised rules are posted at the top of each forum for reference.
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Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

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As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

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(Revised 5/9/18)
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    Last edited by Live2Jump; Dec. 2, 2017, 02:26 AM.
    Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.

  • #2
    When a friend of mine first got her gelding, he was severely self-harming during feed times, to the point of leaving bleeding wounds on his flanks. He was eventually diagnosed with hind-gut ulcers. Initially treating with Sucralfate helped a lot, and now he's comfortable on daily Omeprazole.
    Proud mother to Matt, a 18 year-old TB gelding.



    • #3
      Sounds like a hormonal issue. I think you should talk to your vet.


      • Original Poster

        Originally posted by LookmaNohands View Post
        Sounds like a hormonal issue. I think you should talk to your vet.
        As I mentioned in the original post, our vet is already in the loop on this. I have mentioned hormones but she wanted to pursue ulcers first. I have not dismissed the possibility though.
        Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.


        • Original Poster

          Originally posted by BrookdaleBay View Post
          When a friend of mine first got her gelding, he was severely self-harming during feed times, to the point of leaving bleeding wounds on his flanks. He was eventually diagnosed with hind-gut ulcers. Initially treating with Sucralfate helped a lot, and now he's comfortable on daily Omeprazole.
          Interesting - will mention hind gut ulcers to the vet next time I talk to her if the treatment of regular stomach ulcers doesn't help. Thanks, good idea.
          Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.


          • #6
            Ulcers/hindgut ulcers, allergies, hormones, but my money is on some sort of gut issue. 8 hours to eat out of a 24 hour period means 16 hours where she is probably not getting sufficient, if any, feed to keep her guts going. That's completely unacceptable. The most iron gutted horse in the world would probably get some sort of digestive upset from that sort of regimen.

            Hope that I have misunderstood the number of hours forage is available to her! But I'd still first treat for ulcers before I went looking in other directions.
            Ahhhh, spring is here. The birds are singing, the trees are budding and the paddocks are making their annual transformation from cake mix to cookie dough.


            • #7
              I have a horse that self mutilates: https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/f...tion-in-horses

              I swear my horse has some kind of OCD just based on other behaviors. He's a weird guy.

              I would see what happens if you socialize her with other horses more and end the alone time. Encouraging a herd environment is supposed to help and probably the reason why my horse doesn't really mutilate in the summer (out 24/7 with other horses). It's most common in stallions, typically. This could be a stress response for her and it is a hard one to break. It could be hormone induced. I think that's possible due to all of the changes the body goes through, but I am not an expert/vet.


              • #8
                As a temporary fix, can you put a muzzle on her BEFORE feeding, set her food out, then remove the muzzle? Or go to her with a nosebag of grain, to start the feeding routine. Perhaps not being able to bite herself will reduce pain inflicted, though she may/will still swing head at herself, just can't bite. Another option could be stalling or tying her for the short time needed to put food in place. You do not say she continues biting after food is in place.

                Yeah, more work and time doing the extra, but it might help her a little in wound prevention, help break the reaction cycle she is in now.


                • Original Poster


                  Agree that it could be due to stress, hormones, ulcers or that a social change could help. Still brainstorming. Thanks for your input!
                  Last edited by Live2Jump; Dec. 2, 2017, 02:27 AM.
                  Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.


                  • Original Poster

                    Last edited by Live2Jump; Dec. 2, 2017, 02:28 AM.
                    Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.


                    • #11
                      As it continues for 5 minutes it does sound like ulcers to me. It continues until the pain minimizes a bit.

                      I would keep food in front of her for 24 hours instead of 8. Usually grassy hay.

                      Lucerne (Alfalfa) hay is a buffer.

                      Feed her on the ground, not above.
                      Last edited by SuzieQNutter; Nov. 30, 2017, 03:06 PM.
                      It is better to ride 5 minutes a day than it is to ride 35 minutes on a Sunday.


                      • #12
                        I agree w/ above- she needs hay in front of her a lot longer preferably free choice.
                        "There is no fundamental difference between man and animals in their ability to feel pleasure and pain, happiness, and misery." - Charles Darwin


                        • #13
                          A bib on her halter may prevent her from biting herself, as an alternative to a muzzle.

                          Is feeding time on a fairly strict schedule? If she anticipates arrival of food, I wonder if feeding at an unexpected time might break up the behavior pattern. It may also disrupt anticipatory acid production that might occur if feeding time is predictable.

                          Agree with others about gastric and hindgut ulcers as possibilities.

                          Please update when you try any suggestions, and what her response is. It can be helpful for others to know if something worked or not.
                          "When I look back on my life, the times I have been stingy or unappreciative haunt me. I don't regret one instance of generosity." --PeteyPie


                          • #14
                            My mare will do some different behaviours due to anxiety and/or anticipation. and sometimes boredom She will do a lip smack if she is waiting for food, she'll gnaw on the edge of her feed bucket with her teeth in a consistent fashion, she'l bite at the wood on the front of her stall in a consistent fashion, nothing as extreme are your horse but I always wondered if she might escalate. If she is bored or irritated in the paddock she'll stand there STOMPING her front hoof.

                            She has had ulcers but I definitely notice it if she is anxious or anticipating something...just a thought.


                            • #15
                              Sounds like she needs free choice hay 24/7 for a start. Most horses without metabolic issues do.
                              Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.


                              • #16
                                There's book called "Pets on the Couch" by top behaviorist Dr. Nicholas Dodman. In it, Tufts vet school researchers have documented a Tourette's -like syndrome in horses that results in behavior like you're describing.

                                All the cited research papers are listed in the appendix. This might be another avenue to consider.
                                Last edited by chestnutmarebeware; Nov. 30, 2017, 06:57 PM.
                                "Dogs give and give and give. Cats are the gift that keeps on grifting." –Bradley Trevor Greive


                                • #17
                                  Self harming can be stereotypic like cribbing or weaving...so probably really important to nip this in the bud as fast as you can, lest it stick around forever.

                                  Can you treat her with gastrogard (or nexium) for a short period, then maintain on ranitidine? Can you scope her?

                                  I would really treat this as pretty urgent to resolve. Understandable that you're concerned about the foal, but you don't need to keep her on a PPI for very long. Or, just scope her--then you KNOW if you are dealing with ulcers or not.

                                  Keeping hay in front of her 24/7 also seems like low hanging fruit. Hopefully she would stop anticipating and getting all worked up about being fed if it's always there.


                                  • #18
                                    It sounds like she does have food in front of her 24 hours a day since she goes out in a big field.


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by enjoytheride View Post
                                      It sounds like she does have food in front of her 24 hours a day since she goes out in a big field.
                                      I guess that's something for the OP to clarify, because in the first post she says:

                                      She gets fed with a slow feed net and has food in front of her about 8 hrs a day.


                                      • Original Poster

                                        Last edited by Live2Jump; Dec. 2, 2017, 02:28 AM.
                                        Work - feed - ride - shovel poop - repeat.