• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

IRAP or alcohol fusion of lower hock joint, long term effects?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • IRAP or alcohol fusion of lower hock joint, long term effects?

    Does anyone have any experience with using ethyl alcohol injections into the lower hock space to fuse the joint? I'm specificlly looking for long term health effects.

    Will this create more of a problem in the upper hock joint in the future?

    What about IRAP therapy on the hock? Any experience?

    Loong story short, horse coming back from RF low Suspens injury done in Sept 09. Horse steadily coming back into work shows grade 1-2 lameness in LH. Last week the vet did lameness exam and blocked pasturn, suspen area then hock and then x-rayed hock. Feels the issue in in the hock. Shows lower joints loosing space. Vet recommends 1) joint injections every 3 months with HA/Steroid OR 2) IRAP therapy OR 3) alcohol fusion of the lower hock joint OR 4) put horse on Equioxx daily and see how he goes.

    We got soo tied up in the LH that we ran out of time for the RF. But so far ultrasounds show that's ehaling well. I'll have th evt out again to u/s the RF tomorrow to see if that gives me any nudge towards a particular therapy for the LH.

    Horse is 15yo QH gelding. We did a hock inject in March with moderate success for this same issue. the hock issues are not completely out of the blue, I have xrays from 2006 on both hocks (b/c they were of concern) that show no changes. FWIW

    i'm rambling. Any info on the 2 therapies is appreciated.

  • #2
    Fusion is a good option once all conventional therapy fails. I would not jump into fusion until nothing else works as it in is always an option down the road. I did surgical pastern arthrodesis surgery August 2009 and it has not been a smooth recovery as expected. They still say he has a good chance at soundness but he is still quite lame and it has been really really hard what was sposed to take six months to a year will now take over a year and my horse is still in pain. I would use the hock injections or IRAP as long as you can keep the horse sound. Equioxx or previcox is a good option legend adequan whatever you can do to keep them confortable. When therapy is no longer effective then consider fusion. Talk to your vet for sure that is just my feeling.

    Comment


    • #3
      My horse had the alcohol injections in his hocks last year.
      Background: 10 yo QH that has bad arthritis. He was about 90% fused in both hocks but the last bit wouldn't fuse. Previcox would sometimes mask the pain but not always. Hock injections (steroid and HA) would only last 2 weeks. My horse then lost the ability to canter under rider both directions and then lost the trot. I opted for the ethanol injections at UC Davis. The vet assured me that there were no long term problems so long as the ethanol did not leak out of the joint. The injections were done under xray with a contrast agent first to make sure no leakage would occur.
      He improved for about 4 months and then went back to showing all his original symptoms. At 6 months post injection, I had new xrays taken and they showed 0% new fusion. Yes, I mean NO changes in his hocks compared to the preinjection xrays.
      I took him to another vet clinic for a second opinion and opted to have his hocks drilled. We are 9 weeks post surgery and beginning rehab so it will be a long time before I know if it worked. The vet there said he never sees the hock drilling fail but he's seen a lot of failures to fuse from the ethanol injections and the old caustic iodine injections.
      I went with the alcohol injections because it sounded a lost less painful and your horse doesn't have to be put completely under. But I think most vets will tell you that you have the best chance of inducing fusion with the hock drilling.
      I would ask your vet what his/her success rate is with the alcohol injections. Not what the general success rate of 70% that is quoted from the one paper that's been published but what his/her personal success rate is. Good luck.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thanks all for the replies. i posted a ? about Tildren in this forum tonite. More info there.

        Horse is 15, has had NQR issues with hind end for 9 yrs. Has been on Legend and Adaquan since 2005. Doing an injection every 2.5 weeks. Adaquan then Legend and etc. has had hocks injected as well as stifles. Chiro, Accupuncture, massage and myofascia work done. We have been treating for long time so I am not jumping to Alcohol injections as the first treatment option.

        Today the vet recomended trying the Equioxx for 3 weeks and see how he goes on that. Then to try Tildren next and use that again if we get 6-8 months of happy horse. Then when that no longer gives good results to go to the Alcohol injections.

        RAyers on this BB pointed out the - side effects of using Tildren in posts he made in 2007 but i ahven't dug up any recent posts to see if he's still opposed.

        Still researching. Started first syringe of Equioxx today.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Fharoah View Post
          Fusion is a good option once all conventional therapy fails. When therapy is no longer effective then consider fusion. Talk to your vet for sure that is just my feeling.
          I'm not considering doing a surgical fusion. Ethyl alcohol fusion is a procedure done at the vet clinic, a dye is injected into the lower joint to make sure that the upper joint isn;t involved. Then the alcohol is injected into the a 2 week time off then back to work. There should be no pain involved as the alcohol deadens/kills the nerves in the lower hock joint.

          Hock injections just don't seem to be a good option at all. I mean all we get is about 3 months of grade 1 over a grade 2 soundness. So it's really not worth it to stick a needle into the joint so frequently.

          Comment

          Working...
          X