• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Geriatric horse; alternatives to soaked cubes?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Geriatric horse; alternatives to soaked cubes?

    long story short, I have an old gelding whose teeth are starting to go. Still has them all so far, but they've stopped erupting and he's worn one side smooth. While he's still keeping weight on just fine, and even gaining while on pasture/hay/senior, vet brought up the potential need to feed soaked hay cubes in the future. Problem is, BO refuses to feed anything soaked.

    are there other feed options with which people have found success? Vet mentioned chopped hay. I think the BO is receptive to special feeding requirements, just nothing soaked. I have the opportunity to move to another barn that is willing to feed soaked cubes, but I'll be trading in on other care aspects. So I'm hesitant to move on the possibility that he may need more intense geriatric feed at some point in the future. But I also don't want it to be February with the horse losing weight and nothing else that I can do.

  • #2
    You can try chopped hay, but you really need soaked cubes and soaked senior to make it easier on the old guy. Why nothing soaked? Its really not that big of a pain to do.
    "Anyone who tries to make brownies without butter should be arrested." Ina Garten

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm not sure where you are geographically but I don't think you need to be in a hurry to change diet/location this season. Personally, I've learned not to get ahead of where you are. Researching options for a potential future is great, but don't make changes until they are actually necessary. Chopped hay is a nightmare, a woman does it at our farm - she spends 6 hours a week with a chopper and haz mat suit for one weeks of hay. Soaking is an easier option - except in cold areas - if it needs to soak for 4-12 hours (different based on cube) that is not easy to do for 5 months of the year in some northern locales. However, those are both doable options (there are more) but I would not take that move until you absolutely have to. Senior horses can go far longer, and happier, than most people think.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you have Triple Crown feeds where you are? The Premium Grass Forage can be added to a complete feed like their Senior Feed for long stem fiber.

        There have also been a couple of threads on using, weed whackers, hedge trimmers or mulchers to make your own chopped forage out of the hay you have available. It's easy and keeps the forage consistent.

        The main issue I have had with chopped forage is that the old equines often don't make enough saliva to swallow them safely without choking thus the need for wetting

        I wonder, is your barn owner opposed to wetting food immediately prior to feeding..... or to soaking for an extended period of time?

        Or both?



        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          BO recently had a horse with heaves who required soaked hay cubes. Apparently it was a mess when he ate it and it invited flies? I don't know; horse was euthanized before we moved in. I fed all my horses soaked cubes as a supplement for years and it was never messy; they ate every last bit. But BO is adamant.

          Comment


          • #6
            Can't you soak your own and feed while you are at the barn? Does your BO allow that if you buy your own feed and take it with you every time you go to barn? Let the BO feed the usual feed at the usual time, but you supplement with your own soaked cubes and soaked beet shreds. There is a difference in alfalfa cubes. Compare the cubes from Seminole with the cubes from other companies. Freeze dried is best. You can also feed some dry, do not soak or wet it, flax seed to keep weight on your horse. Do not get the whole flax, get the ground flax. Seminole distributes some good ground flax (but too fattening for my horses, as are the freeze dried alfalfa cubes. Otherwise I'd be using them)

            Comment


            • #7
              The first step for my old pony with bad teeth was Triple Crown Safe Starch chopped hay. That worked well for him for a while. Eventually his teeth got worse, and he was picking through the chopped stuff and only eating the smaller/softer pieces, and I had to move to soaked hay pellets and beet pulp. He also ate Triple Crown Senior the entire time, first dry, then eventually a little wet (he hated it if I made it too soupy).

              Comment


              • #8
                One person mentioned the time... soaked Timothy pellets (at least the ones I buy) only take 10-15 min to completely soak. I used to soak alfalfa pellets and they seemed to take much longer. I know you said your barn manager's issue was the mess with flies. Can you offer to clean up the area if there is a mess?
                Also, I've found that mess to be horse dependent. The mare we had on soaked pellets for years was very messy with them and would chew her food over the railing and get it everywhere. However, I have a gelding on soaked pellets now (supplemental) and his stall is clean as a whistle because eats and chews in the bucket. Another few horses a friend of mine has are the same way- no increased mess because they eat and chew in their buckets.
                One other option is a complete senior feed. They don't need to be soaked (they can be but not a must). The first mare I spoke of grew tired of pellets after awhile and we fed her a complete senior feed twice a day and soaked pellets once a day.
                You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP where are you located.. it's Fall, most/many areas will not have flies for months through the winter?
                  I can't understand how a BO expects to have old horses, who can and often do lose at least some of their teeth and are st risk for choke... and refuse to soak feeds.

                  Personally I like to feed ALL feeds in water, wet at least, but soaked in warm water in winter means I know they are getting that water in, at least, reducing colic risk
                  Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                  http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    The mess (however much is present or simply possible) is what the BO is taking issue with. So I don't think she would allow me to come out and do it, because it's not that she can't herself.
                    The vet and I tried to broach the subject with the BO and were immediately shot down with a solid "no". So I don't think I can reason with her that this horse is an "eat first, ask questions later" kind of horse, or if I do it myself. And, I also can't guarantee that he won't start being messy if/when he does start to lose teeth. I can't be there every day to mop up the stall floor and walls.

                    Originally posted by Angela Freda View Post
                    OP where are you located.. it's Fall, most/many areas will not have flies for months through the winter?
                    I can't understand how a BO expects to have old horses, who can and often do lose at least some of their teeth and are st risk for choke... and refuse to soak feeds.
                    Midwest, so yes, flies aren't an issue starting in October. But, someday it will be July again. As I said, I also think it's the overall mess, not just the flies.
                    And the BO doesn't need boarders; she is very much a "my way or the highway" BO. But all of the other care she provides is excellent. As I said, I found another place that is willing to do soaked cubes when the time comes, but I'd be compromising on a lot of other care aspects (e.g. the old guy will be kicked outside to pasture every day regardless of weather).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I really feel for your situation. It's a tough one. It always astonished me when a seemingly knowledgeable barn owner won't try to find a compromise when a vet is broaching the subject for the wellbeing of the horse.
                      You don't throw a whole life away just because its a little banged up - Tom Smith

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Would she be open to a short trial of the soaked cubes so you can see if this horse is messy with soaked food or not? I feed my horse cubes and he is not messy at all. They are soaked to be the consistency of oatmeal not broth based soup. I have known many horses that are not messy with cubes or soaked "grain". The only one that I know of that was messy they really really made his soaked meals sloppy sloshy soup and he got a huge amount of it since he could eat no hay anymore.

                        The other option may be for when you come out feed him the soaked cubes in a ground pan on the grass in a field somewhere. No stall mess for her to get upset about. Heck if you can do the soaking and feeding in the field you can figure out the perfect texture for him to eat it and not be messy. Hopefully you can then show her that he scarfs it down with no mess. Or you find out he likes to fling it everywhere, get it on his face, front legs and on his ears and you never bring it up to the BO again.
                        Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by morganpony86 View Post
                          The mess (however much is present or simply possible) is what the BO is taking issue with. So I don't think she would allow me to come out and do it, because it's not that she can't herself.
                          The vet and I tried to broach the subject with the BO and were immediately shot down with a solid "no". So I don't think I can reason with her that this horse is an "eat first, ask questions later" kind of horse, or if I do it myself. And, I also can't guarantee that he won't start being messy if/when he does start to lose teeth. I can't be there every day to mop up the stall floor and walls.



                          Midwest, so yes, flies aren't an issue starting in October. But, someday it will be July again. As I said, I also think it's the overall mess, not just the flies.
                          And the BO doesn't need boarders; she is very much a "my way or the highway" BO. But all of the other care she provides is excellent. As I said, I found another place that is willing to do soaked cubes when the time comes, but I'd be compromising on a lot of other care aspects (e.g. the old guy will be kicked outside to pasture every day regardless of weather).
                          Just a caveat that 'when the time comes' that he NEEDs soaked food might be past the time he travels well or adjusts well to a new place.
                          What does the BO do for her own older horses who have teeth issues? Maybe she's never had one get that old....

                          Not trying to beat up on you, but I've been there/done that with an oldster... and the hard choices involved.
                          Last edited by Angela Freda; Sep. 12, 2017, 04:22 PM. Reason: fix spelling and add to comment
                          Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                          http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            BO's not being willing to do things my horses needed are the reason they are at my house. People baffle me. I've never had a horse make a mess with soaked anything. Flies can be a problem if you don't wash the bucket after they finish.

                            Is there a possibility the other BO could be convinced not to boot the old guy out in a snow storm? What would they do if a horse was on stall rest? That policy makes about as much sense as refusing to soak feed or hay cubes.

                            Again people jist just baffle me. I do agree that too many changes at once i.e. New feed and new place/new people new routine may be tough on the old boy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As a horse owner, I'm not willing to stay anywhere that the BO would blow off a vet's instructions for fear of mess. Can you offer to hire a boarder who's there everyday to clean the area for you? If not, I'd move sooner rather than later. Trust me- it seems like no big deal now, I get it. I've been in that situation. But that situation quickly escalated when I had a horse get abscesses in both front feet. Due to the pulse and heat in his feet, combined with his breeding and chunkiness, vet and farrier were very concerned about laminatis. Tell BO all of this, let him feel pulse, offer to pay extra to keep horse in he says don't worry about it, he'll keep him in. Go check on horse a couple hours later, and BO PERSONALLY turned the horse out, even though normally he'd have help do that. I was outraged. Had the horse actually had laminatis it could have been catastrophic. YMMV but personally it's not a risk I'd take, having been there. Move him.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I have a 33 plus gelding who can still eat hay yet no trouble. Requires senior feed also when he can't eat hay any longer i'll have him put down. He still has teeth left and doing well but when he isn't doing well any more i will let him go. I will not keep a horse alive if they can't eat hay/grass not fair.Rather costly to feed bagged feeds for all horse's roughage and nutrition.

                                I can see BO not wanting to do certain things that become time consuming. I know my days are busy enough without adding extra things to do.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Blue Seal hay stretcher pellets! My old guy would not eat soaked cubes or chopped hay. Loved these though! I had a super hot water faucet put in the tack room just so I could soak them. Faucet is good for tea, and soup etc. Once they can't chew, the can't chew!

                                  Miss, my Harry Who? He was 33.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Don't borrow trouble--leave him where he has good care, and move him when and if he needs soaked cubes. FWIW, your BO seems a tad bit anal, but she could be worse.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by tazycat View Post
                                      I have a 33 plus gelding who can still eat hay yet no trouble. Requires senior feed also when he can't eat hay any longer i'll have him put down. He still has teeth left and doing well but when he isn't doing well any more i will let him go. I will not keep a horse alive if they can't eat hay/grass not fair.Rather costly to feed bagged feeds for all horse's roughage and nutrition.

                                      I can see BO not wanting to do certain things that become time consuming. I know my days are busy enough without adding extra things to do.
                                      I can tell you that my fat & sassy 40+ year old gelding could give a rat's aXX that he can no longer eat hay or grass. He is totally content on his sloppy meals of soaked Triple Crown Senior and hay cubes (in the winter). He still goes thru the motions of grazing in the pasture and sharing hay with his buddies, but just quids and drops all of it.

                                      If I had euth'd all my toothless horses over the years, that were unable to chew anymore, I would have lost DECADES of time with them, both in the saddle and just enjoying the tranquil company of an old senior horse.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Those of you with 30 and 40 year old horses obviously know how to feed and take care of them.

                                        Congratulations on doing such a great job!

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X