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Critique this foot - Early Update Posted with Dates etc

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    Critique this foot - Early Update Posted with Dates etc

    Here are three pics of the same foot taken at different times during the year. Each one is problematic. Which would you say is the worst of the three? Is any one an improvement over the others, or are they equally wrong in different ways? Assuming work was being done to improve the foot, which would you think was the oldest, the middle, and the most current? Call them top, middle, and bottom as they appear here.
    Click image for larger version  Name:	foot 3.JPG Views:	1 Size:	14.9 KB ID:	9799343
    Click image for larger version  Name:	foot 1.JPG Views:	1 Size:	13.3 KB ID:	9799344
    Click image for larger version  Name:	foot d.JPG Views:	1 Size:	15.9 KB ID:	9799345
    Last edited by Ganesha; Jun. 27, 2017, 10:24 PM.

    #2
    I'm not going to comment on what is potentially wrong with the hoof, other than the horse has a long toe and underrun heels. I'm not nearly educated enough. But i see the changes in a positive way.

    I would hope top is newest, than middle, than bottom.
    If it is the other way around, I think you are going the wrong direction.

    Comment

      Original Poster

      #3
      Thanks for your input, TwoStride. When I get more responses, I'll post the dates when each picture was taken.

      Comment


        #4
        I'm curious to know if this represents the work of three different farriers as it looks like three different approaches to the same mostly unresolved problem.

        Do you want just the hoof capsule critiqued, or the overall effect on the horse as well?


        Comment


          #5
          Oh ! No .. would not be pleased at all
          Treat others the way you want others to treat you ~ on your threads !

          Comment

            Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Kolsch View Post
            I'm curious to know if this represents the work of three different farriers as it looks like three different approaches to the same mostly unresolved problem.

            Do you want just the hoof capsule critiqued, or the overall effect on the horse as well?

            My main concern is the hoof capsule and trim, but I would appreciate any thoughts you want to share generally regarding what you see here. I'm trying not to share to much information at this point as I would love for people to react to what they see. I will post the dates of the images and more background after I hear from more people (I hope I will get several responses).

            Comment

              Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by BUSY View Post
              Oh ! No .. would not be pleased at all
              Do you have any opinion on which is the least desirable (even if you just had to go with a gut reaction)?

              Comment


                #8
                Bottom one is the worst IMHO

                Treat others the way you want others to treat you ~ on your threads !

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by BUSY View Post
                  Bottom one is the worst IMHO
                  Thanks, Busy.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm hoping the middle one is the oldest as that bulge at the front of the hoof is highly undesirable.

                    The last one is showing signs of the wedge pad pushing the heels even further underneath, but the front bulge is pretty well gone.

                    The first pic looks much better than the other two which is why I'm hoping it is the most recent.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I also think the middle pic is the worst - that bullnosing and distortion of the hairline is a real problem. The bottom pic is only marginally better. The top pic is the best of the bunch - but still a long way from correct. Still way too much toe on that foot.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        IMO: Hoof angle (only) looks most correct in top pic, the worst angle is bottom pic. Toes are too long in all three.

                        Top pic seems to show the beginnings of 'slipper foot' growth though -- (laminitic problem ??) as the hoof wall has different angles of growth.

                        Bullnosing in pics 2 and 3....so I'd say pic three is the worst of the worst -- and top pic is the best of the worst.

                        If the heel wedges on shoes are meant to aid in a heel first landing, the long toes don't help with breakover.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by BUSY View Post
                          Bottom one is the worst IMHO
                          I agree with this... The shoe is too small and the wedge is crushing the heels further. Middle one isn't quite as tragic as the top and bottom, but nothing has been done to back up the toe and bring the heels back. All they did there was slap a wedge shoe on to correct the broken back angle of the top picture. IMO this horse doesn't need a wedge, just bringing the toe and heel back will bring the palmar angle up dramatically.

                          If this is the work of the same farrier trying to address the long toe and low underrun heels on this horse. You need a new farrier. Even if it's the work of different farriers, you haven't found the right one yet.
                          Boyle Heights Kid 1998 16.1h OTTB Dark Bay Gelding
                          Quiet Miracle 2010 16.1h OTTB Bay Gelding
                          "Once you go off track, you never go back!"

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Toes are too long in all three and heels are underrun i all three. Only difference I see is the hoof angle. I'd say you need a new farrier because I would not be pleased with any of these trims.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am torn between the top and bottom pics. The bottom pic looks like the smallest shoe and least support in the back, but to me, the angle of the hoof better matches the pastern angle than the top pic. In the top pic, the pastern is more upright than the foot is (except for the bit at the top that looks like the angle the foot wants to be if the whole foot wasn't so run forward).

                              Very curious to see what the chronological order for these feet is!

                              Also, have their been any xrays done to see what is going on inside?

                              Comment


                                #16
                                I would like to see a better pic of the top image, as I can't tell if the shoe is beveled/rockered.

                                That said, my impression is the middle is the worst - clear bullnosing going on, and I'd guess a negative P3.

                                The bottom pic looks like some attempts have been to at least correct the P3 angle, some bullnosing looks gone, but everything is still way too long. However, if that's the end of a trim cycle, it's going to look worse.

                                OR, the bottom pic is the first one, and the terrible nature of things led to the bullnosing in the middle pic. But because the bottom pic has the wedge, and the bullnose profile is all but gone, I think the bottom is an attempt at correcting the middle.

                                The top pic is the best, but still a long way to go. Again, if it's the end of the cycle, it's going to look worse, but even then I'd say the cycle is too long, and/or the trim is never right to begin with. At this rate, things will never be corrected. There is improvement as the heels are standing up a bit more.

                                Now, that said, it's entirely possible the top pic is where things started, things deteriorated to the middle bullnose pic, and some attempt was made to correct things at the bottom. If that's the case, things went from bad to worse, and the "fix" is not really going to fix things.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  The top pic looks like garden variety long toe/underrun heel.

                                  The middle pic is alarming--there's obvious bull-nosing.

                                  The bottom pic looks to me as though the heel wedge is too extreme.

                                  JMO, I'm not a farrier or trimmer.
                                  "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    I'm really hoping the top picture is the most recent, with the middle picture being the worst. The top picture still isn't perfect, but definitely better than the other two!

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      I think the middle and bottom are the same farrier, top is a different one. Completely different shoeing style. Top's nails are too low and are ripping out, among other things.

                                      Oldest: Middle
                                      Middle: Bottom
                                      Most current: Top

                                      or.......

                                      Oldest: Top
                                      Middle: Middle
                                      Most current: Bottom?

                                      I think the Top is the worst because of how broken back the pastern/hoof angle is. Yes, the toes are shorter. Yes, the shoe is set back to speed up break over, but I wouldn't want to be encouraging ringbone or straining ligaments with that angle. I'd rather use a wedge pad to get the angles right than to leave a horse like this.

                                      OR, the Bottom is the worst because it looks like the white foot has more heel hanging over the shoe than the black foot. Is this because the entire white hoof is longer than the black, the white heel is longer than the black heel, the shoe is set farther forward on the white hoof than the black, or is this an illusion? Pastern angle is possibly different on black leg than the white leg.


                                      Top: wrong angle and broken back way too much, quarters hairline pushed up, underrun heels, nails too low and tearing out. But toe is shorter and shoe set back.

                                      Middle: wrong angle and broken back, long toe, underrun heels, bullnosed. But shoe is big enough to offer heel support.

                                      Bottom: the best angle of the three, long toe, underrun heels. Possibly white hoof has longer heels or shoe set more forward than the black hoof (see above).

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Bottom is the worst - hands down. Trying to add a wedge to an already under-run sole never helps much. Also, there is no support posteriorly as the shoe should extend back farther. The hoof angle is also wrong ... and probably being made worse by the wedge.

                                        Middle photo is still not good, but better than the bottom. Heel is still under-run but not as bad. A little bit better on the shoe support posteriorly but still could be better. Hoof angle is still broken forward but better.

                                        Top picture is the "best" although still not perfect. If anything, now the hoof angle is a little broken back (over correction). Heels are still underrun but better.

                                        So I would pray that the oldest picture was the bottom.
                                        It is not enough to know how to ride; one must know how to fall.

                                        Comment

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