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Dr. Kellon's DSLD treatment

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    Dr. Kellon's DSLD treatment

    My horse has been diagnosed with distal suspensory desmitis and my vet recommended that I look into Dr. Kellon's treatment of Jiaogulan and AAKG. Right now the horse is on previcox (1/4 tab. daily), and my vet who recommended the study to me said that it was fine to continue the previcox while feeding the supplements, but the information from Dr. Kellon indicates that previcox will block the effect of the supplements. I'm hesitant to stop the previcox since I know it's helping to manage her pain, but I want the supplements to be as effective as possible.

    If anyone has experience treating with these supplements, can you let me know how quickly you notice an effect of the supplement? If I stop the previcox I don't know how long I wait before deciding to continue with supplementation or stoping and going back to previcox.

    #2
    Can you contact Dr. Kellon? I think she's active on the Cushings/IR board, and she probably has a website.

    But, iirc, Jiaoglun is an adaptive (Like APF). It's likely that each horse will have a different response at different times of the treatment.

    Comment


      #3
      Dr. Kellon also has a DSLD web group. I'm sure there's tons of info on that site.

      https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DSLD-equine/info

      Comment


        #4
        Bumping this because I just found Dr Kellon's Web site.... I have a 25 yo Morgan with classic symptoms to the point that my vet and I agree there is no point in biopsy testing for it. But her Web site really turned me off, it felt like a MLM scheme to sell me something at a magical dosage??
        COTH's official mini-donk enabler

        "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

        Comment


          #5
          Dr. Kellon does personal consultations. I’ve had three students over the last several years work with her (we are in Oregon). I suggest you email her and ask for a consult.

          Comment


            #6
            Well I filled out her form. I'll see if she'll send me the link for the supplements.
            COTH's official mini-donk enabler

            "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

            Comment


              #7
              I think Dr. Kellon is just a good sales person. I couldn't find any studies suggesting that those supplements actually work. Just stories. I did order some years ago - it was dusty, almost moldy.

              Previcox didn't work for my horse with dsld. Aleve was far more effective at an every other day dose.

              There may be a link between DSLD and cushings, so i would test for cushings disease.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                Bumping this because I just found Dr Kellon's Web site.... I have a 25 yo Morgan with classic symptoms to the point that my vet and I agree there is no point in biopsy testing for it. But her Web site really turned me off, it felt like a MLM scheme to sell me something at a magical dosage??
                Yes. The lady who sells the majikal herbs does come off that way, she bends science, calls anecdotal evidence proof, and will censor questions of any of these and more.
                Not a fan.

                Yo did well on treating the symptoms, which required balancing his DSLD issues with the other ones he had.
                Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by 4horses View Post
                  There may be a link between DSLD and cushings, so i would test for cushings disease.
                  Do you have a link for that?

                  Cushing's can cause a deterioration in supportive and connective tissue - not uncommon for the back to start dipping, wounds to take longer to heal, easier to injure ligaments and tendons. But that doesn't mean it *is* DSLD (more appropriately ESPA), but if the horse has the genetics for ESPA, the issues of Cushing's could cause it to manifest.

                  If that's the link you mean, then yes. But if you are implying Cushing's can cause ESPA, then I'd be interested in the studies looking at that correlation and causation
                  ______________________________
                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                  Comment


                    #10
                    JB, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence about DSLD/ESPA horses also being PPID/Cushing's. I don't know if any true studies have been done on the topic. I can say at our retirement farm we've yet to meet a horse with DSLD/ESPA that doesn't eventually test positive for PPID/Cushing's. I would love for a study to be done on it as we've seen this combination enough times I feel that there has to be a link. Is one causing the other? I guess that is the chicken/egg question.

                    I have mixed feelings about Dr. Kellon. She does seem willing to take on topics like ESPA and PPID that, through the years, haven't gotten nearly enough research attention. But she also seems to prey on horse owners who are experiencing these things for the first time and convincing them she's the only one that can help, and also convincing them that the end is near if they don't follow her protocols and recommendations. Some of the "help" I've seen her give out is, strictly in my opinion, questionable.
                    www.retiredhorses.com
                    Blogging about daily life on the retirement farm: http://paradigmfarms.blogspot.com/
                    Paradigm Farms on Facebook

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Since ESPA often doesn't show up until older years, it doesn't seem out of the realm of likelihood that PPID comes along also as a result of the age, but independently. There are so, so, so many PPID horses who aren't ESPA.

                      And since PPID can start causing tissue breakdown, either outright, or it just doesn't heal well (or at all) from normal stresses that can break down things like tendons and ligaments, and that isn't uncommonly a first sign the horse has Cushing's, I'd want to know the alleged ESPA horses are actually biopsied to prove ESPA. Does that make sense?

                      I have a friend in PA who runs a retirement farm. PPID is the norm, ESPA is rare.

                      If anyone has even a blog article talking about why someone logically thinks there is a connection, I'd love to start there. Age alone is't enough to convince me though.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'm glad this thread is getting good conversation!

                        She did email with the link, and when I read the information there, it says it can't be given (or shouldn't) with "Previcox." First of all I'm surprised a vet is using that name for the drug, when it should be prescribed as Equioxx and IIRC, there was a big stinky about vets getting a finger-wag for Rxing one for the other, once Equioxx was available in pill versus paste.

                        Honestly I felt a relief in deleting the email when I read that, because of my misgivings. He's already on Equioxx for ringbone up front, and I'm not taking him off it. I'm all about helpful alternative therapies including herbs, but proven science is going to come first
                        COTH's official mini-donk enabler

                        "I am all for reaching out, but in some situations it needs to be done with a rolled up news paper." Alagirl

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Here is the article linking cushings with dsld. But they didn't use very many horses in the study.

                          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25641552

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks. The study is looking at just ligament deterioration, which we know can come with Cushing's. But that's not the same as ESPA.

                            SLD (suspensory ligament desmitis/degeneration) is different from DSLD/ESPA.

                            https://ker.com/equinews/tendon-dege...rses-cushings/


                            ______________________________
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by TheJenners View Post
                              I'm glad this thread is getting good conversation!

                              She did email with the link, and when I read the information there, it says it can't be given (or shouldn't) with "Previcox." First of all I'm surprised a vet is using that name for the drug, when it should be prescribed as Equioxx and IIRC, there was a big stinky about vets getting a finger-wag for Rxing one for the other, once Equioxx was available in pill versus paste.

                              Honestly I felt a relief in deleting the email when I read that, because of my misgivings. He's already on Equioxx for ringbone up front, and I'm not taking him off it. I'm all about helpful alternative therapies including herbs, but proven science is going to come first
                              That's what I ran into with this group.. that the treatments they insisted are 'the way' were not compatible with the other treatments I know he needs [as with your horse, for ringbone]. Convincing them that I had to treat the whole horse, not just the hind legs of mine that were falling apart revealed itself to be a losing battle.

                              If the equioxx helps the ringbone, it will also help with the discomfort of the ESPA symptoms and the herbs have proven to not be a cure, so... that's how I came to treat mine the way I did.
                              Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                              http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by JB View Post
                                Since ESPA often doesn't show up until older years, it doesn't seem out of the realm of likelihood that PPID comes along also as a result of the age, but independently. There are so, so, so many PPID horses who aren't ESPA.
                                All of our retirees are not old, including those with PPID and ESPA. All horses with PPID are NOT old, although that is a common but incorrect assumption.

                                There are lots of PPID horses that aren't ESPA. That wasn't my point. My point is we've never had an ESPA horse that didn't also test positive for PPID at some point. That point has sometimes been before and sometimes been after the ESPA diagnosis, but ultimately they always go hand in hand in our experience. That was my point. Why does PPID always make an appearance in the ESPA horses we've lived with? I wish I knew.

                                www.retiredhorses.com
                                Blogging about daily life on the retirement farm: http://paradigmfarms.blogspot.com/
                                Paradigm Farms on Facebook

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Did the alleged ESPA horses have a nuchal ligament biopsy for a definitive diagnosis? I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to figure out more details. Phenotype doesn't equal genotype. Even the link to the study above doesn't talk genetics, it only talks about the similarities in the PPID horses' suspensory ligaments to that of the Peruvian Pasos with, I assume, DSLD/ESPA. Similar, not the same, and no other structures were evaluated.

                                  What generally brings horses to your retirement farm?

                                  I know not all PPID horses are old - some are as young as 5. ESPA is not a 'young horse disease" either, but sometimes it shows up when they are 3 - that's just uncommon.

                                  But both diseases do tend to show up in oldER horses. That's what I was trying to say.

                                  This could be as "simple" as early PPID is the body stress that brings out the ESPA, and then the PPID diagnosis is made later.
                                  ______________________________
                                  The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by JB View Post
                                    Did the alleged ESPA horses have a nuchal ligament biopsy for a definitive diagnosis? I'm not arguing, I'm just trying to figure out more details. Phenotype doesn't equal genotype. Even the link to the study above doesn't talk genetics, it only talks about the similarities in the PPID horses' suspensory ligaments to that of the Peruvian Pasos with, I assume, DSLD/ESPA. Similar, not the same, and no other structures were evaluated.

                                    What generally brings horses to your retirement farm?

                                    I know not all PPID horses are old - some are as young as 5. ESPA is not a 'young horse disease" either, but sometimes it shows up when they are 3 - that's just uncommon.

                                    But both diseases do tend to show up in oldER horses. That's what I was trying to say.

                                    This could be as "simple" as early PPID is the body stress that brings out the ESPA, and then the PPID diagnosis is made later.
                                    Yes, biopsies done. I have said nothing about phenotype equaling genotype, I didn't post the link to the study you keep referencing. I've also said I don't know what the link is, just that there is an obvious one that we see at our retirement farm. It could be something really simple, but maybe not. I make no assumptions on WHY we see both in the same horses.

                                    As far as what brings horses to our retirement farm? Pick your thing. Soft tissue injuries, hoof problems, respiratory problems, eye problems, skin problems, arthritis, ESPA, some horses come just because they're quite neurotic and their owners are tired of trying to manage them in the standard boarding facilities available to them. Do you want me to keep going? At this point you're kind of arguing with yourself about nothing.
                                    www.retiredhorses.com
                                    Blogging about daily life on the retirement farm: http://paradigmfarms.blogspot.com/
                                    Paradigm Farms on Facebook

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      No, I am really not arguing. I am trying to understand the connection you think is there. I'm just looking for details. I simply can't find any studies that show a link. I understand anecdotes. I know " home grown" case studies usually don't account for a lot of factors.

                                      PPID is a very complicated thing, and almost all the things you list can be early symptoms that on their own, aren't common enough for a person to go "oh, eye problems, I wonder if he's in the early stages of PPID". But we KNOW that chronic or unhealing soft tissue injuries, hoof issues, skin issues, and more, *can* be the first symptoms of PPID.

                                      I am not saying there isn't a link. I'm just trying to find out more information from those who think there might be. I'm sorry if asking questions seems argumentative to you, especially when I've stated I'm just gathering info and not arguing.
                                      ______________________________
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Just anecdotal but the horse I was helping care for with DSLD also for sure is PPID although owner for some reason refuses to medicate (has another PPID horse that does not seem to be DSLD). Both in their teens. And symptoms of both became readily apparent around the same time. As fetlocks were starting to drop, long curly hair coat developed, for bed sores because she didn’t want to get down with the DSLD and would fall trying to sleep standing up and those just wouldn’t heal, unusual sweat patterns, etc.

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