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Need brainstorming-WTF is wrong with my horse's hooves

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  • Need brainstorming-WTF is wrong with my horse's hooves

    First the disclaimer-call has been made to the vet.

    Julian is the horse. Out of work TB. Previously 12 hour dry lot and 12 hour pasture. Same pasture as 2 other horses with no hoof issues.

    He had a toe crack RF-but this has happened before and I was able to remedy it. This time it came back but was not out of control.

    About a week to 10 days ago the crack got worse and the outer wall started peeling up a littttttle bit on the front feet.

    No other sypmtoms-he toes were a bit long but nothing exciting. Not terribly long just due for a trim long.

    Last weekend I was out of town. He and Milo were on a pasture they had not been on in several weeks.

    Monday morning Julian was tender and had pulses. Milo had a SLIGHT pulse that resolved in a few hours.

    I figured they just got too much grass while I was out of town and treated each accordingly.

    Milo was fine by Tuesday morning and is still fine.

    Julian has been dry lotted with hay since. He has had mild to moderate pulses since Monday. I have buted him and treated him as a classic laminitis case.

    Last night bounding pulses all 4 feet. This morning small to medium pulses-but definitely reduced from last night.

    There was a small amount of red clover that we found on Tuesday (each had slobbers for a few hours on Monday-since gone)....but I can't find anything else in that field.

    I have had a pasture management person come out and check the fields-nothing was found other than 2 small patches of red clover.

    Since Monday he feet are literally falling apart! His RF has broken back A LOT-scary scary broken back.

    Now all 4 feet are peeling at the junction of the inner and outer wall. Now the LH foot is starting to break apart as well.

    The walls are just chunking back to the sole.

    The white line is not chalky. The white line is not mushy and is in tact until the wall just breaks out.

    His walls are not soft or mushy feeling. His soles are not soft or mushy.

    His frogs are normal healthy for him-no changes.

    I have dealt with laminitis from grass with Polo and his feet never did this.

    No doubt Julian has laminitis BUT I have NEVER seen a 'simple' grass founder do this.

    Could it be WLD? But the white line is not chalky

    Lyme? Some other kind of poisoning?

    I am totally baffled.

    I Equicast his front feet today (he ripped his boots and I had to do something).

    His appetite is down from normal though he is eating his hay-just very slower and not terribly enthusiastically.

    Again vet HAS been called but I am just searching for ideas for the source of this. I need to find the cause so I can remove it...but wtf?
    Last edited by LMH; Jun. 23, 2010, 05:59 PM.

  • #2
    Any temperature? Malaise? Diarrhea?

    I ask because I've seen HIGH temperatures (as associated with Erhlicchiosis) bring on white line separation.. IF he got bit by a tick carrying ehrlicchia AND had grass overload, it may explain what you're seeing.

    I'd definitely have vet run blood for ehrlicchia.

    JINGLES FOR JULIAN!

    p.s. if you run out of casting material, what I have is yours.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      No temp no diarrhea.

      Vet will be here at 5 to see him and pull blood.

      Comment


      • #4
        Wierd. Jingles are all I can offer.

        I will note that when I've seen pulses, I've seen them be more pronounced in the evening and less so in the morning, as you have observed.
        "One person's cowboy is another person's blooming idiot" -- katarine

        Spay and neuter. Please.

        Comment


        • #5
          WOW I'm sorry.
          My guess would be bacteria introduced from the toe crack? WLD ?? I had two little toe cracks on a weanling I didn't think anything of, both abscessed, maybe it could be a particularly stubborn abscess?? But then why all 4 pulsing? That does makes it sound systemic. Let us know what the vet finds.

          Healing thoughts for Julian, and prayers for strength and hugs for you.

          We've had so much wet up here, everyone I know is fighting abscesses including me

          Comment


          • #6
            That is just odd!

            Ditto pulling blood and checking for tick diseases, including Lyme.

            What do the coronet bands look like? My line of though is with selenium - any chance you have/he ate something that hoards selenium? What are his mane and tail doing?

            ANY chance of any bracken fern?
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              Originally posted by JB View Post
              That is just odd!

              Ditto pulling blood and checking for tick diseases, including Lyme.

              What do the coronet bands look like? My line of though is with selenium - any chance you have/he ate something that hoards selenium? What are his mane and tail doing?

              ANY chance of any bracken fern?
              coronet bands are fine. mane and tail fine.

              I don't think so on bracken fern? But no idea?

              The gut thought is a low grade laminitis-basically low level IR with no 'obvious symptoms' and he just crashed.

              Will know more later.

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Well....blood was pulled and it will take a day or two for insulin...but likely metabolic, IR, pushed over the edge.

                So consider this yet ANOTHER PSA to ALL horse owners-if your horse is eating grass and has no symptoms-not overweight, no cresty neck, no history of issues...well you dodged that bullet for today.

                Tomorrow is another day and one too many candy bars will make type 2 diabetic. It will-it is just a matter of when.

                Score for today:

                Traditional boarding with limited turnout on grass-1

                "Natural" even with 12 hours of dry lot-0

                Comment


                • #9
                  Did you have any odd weather events or major change in temperature that would have changed the grass' NSC levels?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Look for Lyme disease. I've seen that trash a horses feet overnight. Weird cracks and inexplicable fast changes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Julian is speshul that's for sure.

                      I would not rule out that he is being "helped" by probably being chronically, constantly at least a little body sore. It makes a body *tired* after a while, even if it doesn't affect day to day operations.
                      ______________________________
                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        I agree JB-as you know I had recent films of his spine and his KS is involving another vertebrae.

                        No doubt years of dealing with this is elevating cortisol and playing games with his entire body.

                        I will say this-Equicasts have been a miracle. Talk about insta-comfort!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Glad you've got your answer, but still stinks for Julian .
                          <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Well he still has pulses today.

                            Part of his bloodwork came back.

                            Glucose is 100 and everything else normal.

                            Cortisol and Insulin have not come back yet.

                            If this IS just a grass founder shouldn't the pulses be gone by now?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh dear Did you stand him in ice water or cold hose those feets?
                              <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by LMH View Post

                                If this IS just a grass founder shouldn't the pulses be gone by now?
                                Not if it's something other than grass causing it. When Lodi got laminitis a few years ago, it was only when we took the food that she was intolerant to away that she got better. In her case it was soy but it could be something else in his diet or environment as well.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  I have gone through everything I can think of and can't find what could still be impacting this.

                                  No diet change in a year (all he gets is 1/4 cup alfalfa pellets), no supplement changes.

                                  He has no access to pasture.

                                  I am missing something, obviously.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                    I have gone through everything I can think of and can't find what could still be impacting this.

                                    No diet change in a year (all he gets is 1/4 cup alfalfa pellets), no supplement changes.

                                    He has no access to pasture.

                                    I am missing something, obviously.
                                    It's a long shot, but are the supplements fixed formula?
                                    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                                    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Jingles ~ and Question and You know what is going to be !

                                      Jingles for Julian ~ Jingle Jingle Jingle & AO ~ Always Optiimistic !

                                      Still Optimistic about seeing some Birthday photos ~ previously promised about a month ago???? Maya and Logan ~ have you seen them anywhere??? Did you sell the youngsters ???? Did they run away ???

                                      PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE ~
                                      Zu Zu Bailey " IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE ! "

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        The only supps he gets are NTM salt and Izmine from Dynamite.

                                        Salt always, Izmine I put out every week or so.

                                        Nothing that exciting!

                                        So, yes-I guess those would be fixed formula.

                                        OH-there is an ADM block out there-but I don't think anyone has touched it in ages.

                                        Good thought though. :-/

                                        Comment

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