• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

long-term use of dex for autoimmne horse - sad update #27

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • long-term use of dex for autoimmne horse - sad update #27

    I will not give any details of who/where/when, so don't ask

    let's say you have a horse who has long-term diarrhea, and after a zillion things have been tried, including all sorts of dietary changes, pro/prebiotics, you name it, it's found that dex, low dose, is what stops it. On dex = normal poop, off dex = diarrhea again.

    It's been deemed an auto-immune issue and the horse *may* need to be on long-term low-dose dex.

    Have you found another cause for this? Have you found another fix?

    It just worries me that long-term use of a steroid, even at as low a dose as possible, is just asking for trouble down the road, and I'd hate for the "cure" to be worse than the problem.

    Absolutely NO berrating of anyone in this situation. It is not my horse, I have decided I want to find out what I can to maybe offer suggestions to this person and their vet(s), so experiences and possible suggestions only.

    Please, and thank you
    Last edited by JB; Aug. 10, 2010, 10:26 AM.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

  • #2
    I would try prednilosone (sp?) for anything long term.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

    Comment


    • #3
      JB, has any other steriods been tried? or was Dex the first thing they tried and it worked so they wanted to stick to it?
      If i'm posting on Coth, it's either raining so I can't ride or it's night time and I can't sleep.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Ah, why didn't I think of prednisolone?? Thanks ET!

        Catersun, I think no other steroid was tried but I'll find out.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

        Comment


        • #5
          Ok, other thoughts - did they try the horse on metrodozinole? Check for salmonella shedding? Of course, for tapes and power pack? No or ??? Deworming history? Worm damage can cause permanent runs
          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
          ---
          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Forgot - yes, all the deworming has been dealt with afaik, but I'll double check. I've been following this horse for a while, offering all the suggestions I was able.

            I've gone back to read the history on him. Here's what's been done:
            - metronidazole (man, is that nasty stuff or what LOL)
            - banamine with the metro, both for 10 days
            - negative for salmonella, giardia
            - originally off his feed a bit, had some edema in his chest and belly
            - protein levels were checked due to edema - apparently he is losing some (?)
            - also tried a compound drug I know nothing about - Enrofloxacin
            - then doxy and dex

            Sorry I didn't post that earlier - forgot I had all that in written form.

            It's been weaning off the dex that the diarrhea has returned.
            ______________________________
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

            Comment


            • #7
              My boarders horse had chronic edema and sores on her belly and hind legs.....they suspected and autoimmune disease of some sort..........they used low dose dex to controll the sypmptoms while they looked for reasons......they tried allergy shots as she did have some allergies......but that didn't work....blood work was done......biopsy of the sores all came back negative.......we got to the point once where we had her almost completely weaned off and it flared back up in the fall....which was when this whole thing erupted in the first place......it was always better in the summer than the fall/winter. It eventually got to the point that she got cushings not sure if it was dex induced or she actually aquired that on her own......after a 2 year battle and her slowly going down hill she was laid to rest this past January.

              Dalemma

              Comment


              • #8
                Enrofloxacin is an antibiotic in the class with Cipro or Levaquin. Sounds like they thought it was an infection.

                Comment


                • #9
                  What about immune boosters?

                  Is chronic diarrhea a result of gut inflamation? Is that why the steroids might work? (Thankfully chronic diarrhea is not in my experience vault).

                  Wild idea here, but I have read a lot about how Cetyl-M works as it is currenty helping two of my horses, and it does target autoimmune issues and inflamation.
                  Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
                  www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

                    Was the horse ever starved?

                    The edema is what really sticks out to me.

                    Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
                    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                      losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

                      Was the horse ever starved?

                      The edema is what really sticks out to me.

                      Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
                      Losing protein is gut inflammation.
                      Edema is the result of low protein and decreased oncotic pressure.
                      "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                      ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you have a TCVM practitioner nearby, you might want to have them take a look at this horse.
                        Si Miao San might be an appropriate formula.
                        "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                        ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I realize this is simply treating the symptom (diarrhea) but what about something like Biosponge? How long has the horse had diarrhea, btw?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Liver panel run?
                            "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                            ---
                            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Ghazzu, what is TCVM? The horse is in NC if that makes a difference.

                              I do not believe this horse was ever starved but will try to find out for sure.

                              Biosponge - I know that was mentioned but am not sure if it was tried.

                              Liver panel - I believe that checked fine, but will double check.

                              I believe this all started around the beginning of May.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Sorry--Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine.
                                Many acupuncture trained DVMs have some Chinese herbal education as well as needling.
                                "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                                ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by pintopiaffe View Post
                                  losing protein & edema sounds like kidney/liver/heart

                                  Was the horse ever starved?

                                  The edema is what really sticks out to me.

                                  Worm damage. Organ damage/failure.
                                  Not sure if your question was directed at the OP or my storey of using dex long term for an autoimmune disorder.....it seems like they had similar symptoms....in my boarders case there was no diahrrea.

                                  My boarders horse was never starved quite the opposite she was always an easy keeper and the owner struggled to keep her from getting fat.........the horse was 10 years old when it was put down.

                                  Blood work was done no issues with kidney or liver functions.

                                  It was supspected that she may have been suffering from Pemphigus foliaceus.

                                  Dalemma

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    You know I HAVE to ask this...

                                    Have they ever removed ALL SOY?

                                    Gone to just grass hay for a couple weeks?

                                    Then added whole grains one at a time??

                                    Sorry. But I *had* to.
                                    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I'm quite certain since they live in NC that this has already been addressed, but has sand accumulaton been ruled out? If either of my guys ever picked up a sand load they would get diarrhea. A course of Sand Clear did the trick.

                                      In response to the original question I do know two horses who are on very low dose dex long term for terrible skin issues that only clear up while on the dex. It is also suspected that they have an over-active immune system. One is young, one is very old. Neither one has had any issues (knock on wood)!

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        PP - I am fairly certain they went back to a hay-only diet early on, as that was one of my first suggestions. I don't recall if soy has ever been in the picture, but I'll check

                                        dwblover - yes, sand has been addressed

                                        But, not every place in NC has to worry about sand
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X