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worming strategies and the theories behind them

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  • worming strategies and the theories behind them

    So until I got my newest horse my worming protocol was what various barn manager/owners where I'd boarded told me and did: give a paste wormer every 8 weeks or so. (method 1)

    Over the winter I met a several horse owners who used a daily pellet wormer instead (it comes with insurance for colic surgery or something). (method 2)

    When my vet came to check my new horse I asked her about worming (I'd never actually asked my vet what her recommendation was) and she said her recommendation was that you do a twice yearly fecal on each horse and only worm them if there are signs of worms. (method 3)

    Her reasoning was that there is growing resistance to many wormers, and overuse of wormers was adding to the problem.

    We did a fecal on my new horse and it was negative (no worms), so that's fine. We'll check again in the fall, per vet's recommendation.

    I thought that was interesting, and wondered what other worming strategies are popular, and what the theory/reasoning behind them is?

  • #2
    At my vet's recommendation, we are now doing "option 3" - fecals twice a year and deworming as indicated by that.

    Last deworming for us was in the fall, and this spring's fecals showed one equine completely negative and two with very very low counts. So the vet suggested Quest for the spring and Ivermectin in the fall, unless the fall fecals indicate otherwise.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Paddys Mom View Post
      At my vet's recommendation, we are now doing "option 3" - fecals twice a year and deworming as indicated by that.

      Last deworming for us was in the fall, and this spring's fecals showed one equine completely negative and two with very very low counts. So the vet suggested Quest for the spring and Ivermectin in the fall, unless the fall fecals indicate otherwise.
      Our vet also, but he recommends Quest Plus in the spring and Zimectrin Gold in late fall for bots, etc.

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      • #4
        I know people use it without ill effects, but I will never, ever use Zimecterin Gold. Not when it is *known* to cause mouth ulcers (at the very least), and not when Equimax does the same job without the risk of those side effects.

        twofatponies, go to www.thehorse.com and look for the webinars link on the left side. Watch Strategic Deworming, and take notes.

        Resistance issues are a big big threat. There is enough of it now, widespread enough, with NOTHING new in the works as far as chemicals go, and we're down to only ivermectin and moxidectin being the most useful. If those go to any greater degree (there is already resistance by ascarids, not a good thing for foals), then we in deep doo.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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        • #5
          I worm according to FEC results due to the growing resistance.

          I ditto JB's post-- I was going to recommend watching that webinar but she beat me to mentioning it! There's going to be a Deworming Your Horse: Take 2 on June 2nd at 8:00 PM (ET) as well.
          Originally posted by RugBug
          Don't throw away opportunities because they aren't coming in exactly the form you want them to.

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          • Original Poster

            #6
            If I'd had half a brain maybe I'd have asked this question of my vet ten years ago! Never occurred to me to question what everyone else was doing.

            Well, glad to hear others use the same method and find it useful and sufficient.

            I stand edumacated. :P

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            • #7
              I've seen more than one vet shake her head at the new stuff coming out. Not in denial, but in regret over former deworming recommendations.

              When we know better, we do better. I haven't had fecals done on my horses yet, but will do so soon. I'm waiting for the new OTTB to fully exposed to the worms in my pasture and then get the egg count so the vet can recommend a decent dewormer. I think the other horses are pretty much ok, but will let the fecals tell me.
              "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

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              • #8
                Option 3 here.

                I just did fecals on my three. They were last wormed Dec 1. One had 0 eggs/gram, one had 25 eggs/gram and the third 100 eggs/gram. Since all are under 225 eggs per gram we will wait another 6 months to worm.

                I'm actually saving money as they will only be wormed once this year.

                Watch the The Horse webinars!

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                • #9
                  I do option #3 as per my vet. I just did the fecals on my 10 and they were all at 0 eggs/gram.
                  Kanoe Godby
                  www.dyrkgodby.com
                  See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.

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                  • #10
                    What about the issue of encysted strongyles? Does it matter that large and small strongyles are not differentiated?

                    Thanks!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I do Option 3, as per my Vet's recommendation. Fecals are tested, and de-wormed based on the results. They have a whole program based on high shedders & low shedders, but customiz for the individual horse & the farm they live in.
                      <3 Vinnie <3
                      1992-2010
                      Jackie's Punt ("Bailey") My Finger Lakes Finest Thoroughbred

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by subk View Post
                        Option 3 here.

                        I just did fecals on my three. They were last wormed Dec 1. One had 0 eggs/gram, one had 25 eggs/gram and the third 100 eggs/gram. Since all are under 225 eggs per gram we will wait another 6 months to worm.

                        I'm actually saving money as they will only be wormed once this year.
                        Except that where you are, where I am where just about everyone in the US is, tapeworms are a big deal and really should be treated for twice a year.

                        This can be a double dose of pyrantel pamoate in the Spring, and then Equimax in the Fall after a freeze (or just 6 months later if you don't have freezes, ie southern FL).

                        Originally posted by lalahartma1 View Post
                        What about the issue of encysted strongyles? Does it matter that large and small strongyles are not differentiated?

                        Thanks!
                        Fecals won't show you encysteds - they're "hibernating". But if your FECs continually give you low/no counts, then you aren't dealing with encysteds, either at all, or to any significant degree, as eventually they will emerge and show up in the manure.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmm. Well I'd like to thank you, Twofatponies, for bringing this up, and JB and everyone who suggested the webinar. My vet is still on the old program, (option one) which actually was a new program for me, still having memories of tube worming and piperazine once a year. I'll have to watch the webinar more than once to absorb it all, and then I'll have to work on the vet. Or maybe find a new one? Or an independent lab?
                          Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
                          Incredible Invisible

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                          • #14
                            Almost #3...

                            *except*

                            I do either Equimax or a DD of Strongid in the spring for tapes.

                            And I now also do Ivermectin just before Black Fly season, and another dose in about a month if needed, as it makes a pretty dramatic difference in the horses getting eaten alive or carried away by Black Flies.

                            FWIW, I lost a horse to Quest, and I'd use Quest again before using Zimec Gold.
                            InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                            Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

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                            • #15
                              Well as most of you know I am a bit different about deworming

                              Every horse who comes here gets extensively dewormed for about a year. That includes a power pack, quest plus and equimax. If they have skin issues, more. I pull a fecal after that year or so is up and see what we have. If the horse is identified as a high shedder they stay in a stricter rotation. If they have certain ongoing issues they stay on a stricter rotation. If not they go to 2x year with a product that covers tapes and a power pack. I might toss in a double oxy somewhere along the way.

                              Preventing shedding Onto the pastures is my biggest concern I our subtropical environment.
                              "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                              ---
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Obviously climate plays a HUGE role. As does amount of pasture and how you're able to manage it.

                                I found when I started feeding whole oats, flax & BOSS that I no longer had to (hand) rake the manure in the pasture to spread it. The birds decimate the piles, other little critters also come out to feast... and as long as it's either hot and dry, OR we get a good rain, everything is spread nicely.

                                You also have to know if your water supply might be an issue. When friend had the creepycrawlies back in early Spring, seems as if there's a farm upstream of her, with cows and sheep, and while the stream is plenty 'safe' for horses to drink out of, it is the most likely source of the parasites...

                                So even though she & I are in the same geographic region--she's going to have to have a very different approach than I am, on a closed farm, with well water.
                                InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

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                                • #17
                                  I'm switching to option 3. But how is it cheaper? My vet charges $75/fecal, so when I have all 7 equines tested it will be $525. If I test every six months, that's (obviously) $1050. Rotational worming costs approx. $600/year.

                                  My trainer with a barn of 40 and a stable turnout population (that is, the same four horses go out together year in and year out) tested everyone in the barn, and from then on, tests one horse out of that four horse herd every six months.
                                  https://www.facebook.com/SugarMapleFarm
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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by SMF11 View Post
                                    I'm switching to option 3. But how is it cheaper? My vet charges $75/fecal, so when I have all 7 equines tested it will be $525. If I test every six months, that's (obviously) $1050. Rotational worming costs approx. $600/year.
                                    Either find a vet who will do it more cheaply (mine does it for the handsome price of $25), invest in mail-order testing (varies in price but certainly less than $75), ask your vet for a package deal if you order 7 fecals at one time, or buy yourself a suitable microscope + accessories and do it yourself.

                                    The DIY option is a one-time investment of approx. $100-$200 in supplies plus whatever your time is worth. Cheap.
                                    Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by SMF11 View Post
                                      I'm switching to option 3. But how is it cheaper? My vet charges $75/fecal, so when I have all 7 equines tested it will be $525. If I test every six months, that's (obviously) $1050. Rotational worming costs approx. $600/year.

                                      My trainer with a barn of 40 and a stable turnout population (that is, the same four horses go out together year in and year out) tested everyone in the barn, and from then on, tests one horse out of that four horse herd every six months.
                                      I swear my (eta: "our"!) vet said it was $35 for the fecal, but the bill hasn't come yet. Maybe it was $75 and I misheard. i thought $35 was nice and cheap. (Same location as you - Dutchess). Hm.

                                      That does add up with lots of horses.

                                      Really educational thread guys, thanks for everyone's input.

                                      Also - could a larger barn owner do their own fecals? You just look through a microscope for little critters no? Can't be that hard to learn what to look for.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        My only concern when I worked in a human lab, is that worms shed their eggs at different times. Usually an Ova and Parasite test was collected over a duration of 3 days.

                                        What if you collect a fecal sample on the horse when the worms aren't shedding eggs?
                                        MnToBe Twinkle Star: "Twinkie"
                                        http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...wo/009_17A.jpg

                                        Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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