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shipping foal, any tips, supplements?? HELP TUMMY TROUBLE

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  • shipping foal, any tips, supplements?? HELP TUMMY TROUBLE

    any tips on shipping a 5 week (4 weeks right now) old foal with mom 13 hours in a box stall?

    mom will get ulcergard just because she cribs and I often wonder but, did the 1 month and saw no change. Should he get some?

    Should he get anything? he has some dark brown diarrhea right now but, mom was in a very heavy heat (never showed a foal heat) and just ovulated yesterday so I pray that's all it is and clears up ASAP. Gave him some probiotics tonight and we'll see how he is in the AM. All is Ok otherwise, no fever, nursing, etc. It's been 1.5-2 days or so and it's not causing any scours although I'm protecting his bumm anyway.
    Last edited by SSFLandon; May. 25, 2010, 08:53 PM.

  • #2
    It wouldn't hurt to give the foal ulcerguard, too. Probably would only need 1/5 of a tube, but check with your vet. Just make sure his manure's dried up, obviously, and that the box stall has enough bedding/ hay/ water and is big enough--and if possible try to see if they'll ship overnight if it's going to be hot. We ship mares and foals back and forth KY to MD all the time--it's fine.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      help, tummy trouble still here

      well, the diarrhea is not getting better but, perhaps a little worse today. It's been 3 days. Today it's more watery and smelly. He is nursing and still does not have a temp higher then 101.3 but, that was when he came in then it went back to 100.6 or so when I checked it a half hour later and he's acting totally normal and his wild self

      he's not making much of a mess on himself but, I am using some diaper cream anyway

      I have him started on some Kaopep 30 CC, 3 x, probiotics 2x and ulcergard 2/3 of 1/4 dose 2x

      some thoughts I have are, I had an equimin block and salt block in stall, now took it out, also a food toy also removed tonight (these are his moms toys but, I know he get's into them) he eats with her too, so could any of this be the cause? he also goes out on a large mixed grass pasture with 2 other adult horses

      I hope it improves, I hate to ship him like this. will talk to the vet in the AM

      Comment


      • #4
        Good thing you are calling the vet. Foals can get bacterial infections very quickly that can cause diarrhea.

        Comment


        • #5
          My foal had diahrrea that finally went away when I took the himalayan salt block that I didn't think he could reach out of the stall after I caught his craning his neck to reach it. That was after treating with biosponge and gastroguard though so I can't say for sure that is what cleared it up.
          Run your finger across his upper gum and make sure its very wet. If not he might need fluids. A vet is always a good idea when dealing with babies, they can be fine one minute and critical the next.
          McDowell Racing Stables

          Home Away From Home

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            thanks

            gums are wet, but, temp did go up again into the low 101's. It is very humid which does not help but, there is a fan

            he had one squirt since he came in at 7 and one time when it looked like he wanted to go but, did not so it's not continuous but, then again I'm not sure how much he really poops anyway as it's mixed with moms normally

            he has been nursing but, mom is grumpy which does not help although he's persistent

            Comment


            • #7
              That is not a fever for any horse, especially not a foal. Good to hear his gums are wet. Hope he feels better soon. Keep a good eye on the mare's bag, if it seems extra full or if he has milk on his face that is a sign of a big problem.
              McDowell Racing Stables

              Home Away From Home

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                That is not a fever for any horse, especially not a foal. Good to hear his gums are wet. Hope he feels better soon. Keep a good eye on the mare's bag, if it seems extra full or if he has milk on his face that is a sign of a big problem.
                Ok, I have the cam on with a dim light tonight so I can keep an eye he does nurse but, sure get's mad quick when she does not let down, he paws alot! he is a strong personality though and once he gets going he stops the nonsense

                what does it mean to get milk on his face? like he's not swallowing?

                will temp once more before going to bed. Could this be a foal heat diarrhea just coming on later because she never seemed to go into heat until about 3-4 weeks after foaling?

                EDIT, just went out, temp 101 exactly so down a bit, wet gums, and a spew (for lack of better words) that is dark brown and less smelly then earlier but was on his bum which I cleaned and baby'd again, poor guy!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Milk on his nose or face means the bag is too full so as soon as he goes near it milk squirts all over the place. A healthy foal will keep the bag relatively empty. It won't look anything like a mare that is not lactating but won't be bursting at the seams either. It could be foal heat diahrrea, I think that can happen anytime the mare goes into heat although tends to be most prominent the first heat. A tip for next time, deworm the mare with ivermectin within a couple of hours of foaling and you won't have scours.
                  McDowell Racing Stables

                  Home Away From Home

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                    Milk on his nose or face means the bag is too full so as soon as he goes near it milk squirts all over the place. A healthy foal will keep the bag relatively empty. It won't look anything like a mare that is not lactating but won't be bursting at the seams either. It could be foal heat diahrrea, I think that can happen anytime the mare goes into heat although tends to be most prominent the first heat. A tip for next time, deworm the mare with ivermectin within a couple of hours of foaling and you won't have scours.
                    oh yes, now I know what you mean about her bag. I have been checking it and it's not too full. If anything he nurses too much to the point she cut's him off...well tries too but, he usually wins.

                    She was dewormed a month before he came and a few hours after foaling. He was born on 323 4/24 so a bit earlier then planned. She had her shots and deworming 4/1 expecting him 5/10 +/-. He was born very healthy and his IGG was excellent.

                    Like I said she did not show a foal heat at all so this would be the first real heat I have seem, she is very obvious when in heat...hmmm

                    I hope it's not serious and just a passing issue

                    thanks!

                    one other thought, my vet wanted me to deworm at 30 days with stongid so I did which was Sunday just before this started I think. He got 300 (double dose as directed my the deworming experts) pounds and I gave the mare the remaining. We do have horses here that have used their pasture recently and I'm not positive about their health history so I think that is why the vet wanted to deworm. I followed directions as I know horse care but, not foal care which I am learning...not sure if this could also be the cause. My mare has always been on a strict rotation every other month but, this time I felt it could not hurt to give her the remaining as it was just the right amount for her and stongid is supposed to be safe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The ivermectin at foaling doesn't have anything to do with the mare's prior worming schedule. I can't cite the technical reasons why it works, it just does which is good enough for me. I haven't had scours in many years due to this protocol. This year I had a really bad dystocia to the point where I thought we were going to have to cut the foal out in pieces. I had two vets there working on her for hours. With all the drama I forgot to give the ivermectin until the next day and had big time scours to deal with. I won't forget again.
                      McDowell Racing Stables

                      Home Away From Home

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                        The ivermectin at foaling doesn't have anything to do with the mare's prior worming schedule. I can't cite the technical reasons why it works, it just does which is good enough for me. I haven't had scours in many years due to this protocol. This year I had a really bad dystocia to the point where I thought we were going to have to cut the foal out in pieces. I had two vets there working on her for hours. With all the drama I forgot to give the ivermectin until the next day and had big time scours to deal with. I won't forget again.
                        I've heard this from alot of people and my mare did get Ivermectin within an hour after foaling so....??? not sure why the scours now at near 5 weeks old, hopefully it's heading out, we'll see today

                        temp 100.9 this AM, did not see any poop of his in stall but, a bit on him, everything else normal. He did take a drink outside, he likes to do what mom does so I can't take the water away from him, going to the vets and have a fecal sample unless she wants to come here

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well you most likely solved the mystery. Water will do that every time.
                          McDowell Racing Stables

                          Home Away From Home

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            what is your vet saying? who are the deworming experts that told you to double dose?

                            as someone else mentioned, foals can go down hill quick. I would be more inclined to talk to my vet than the internet. Rather, I would want the vet out.
                            save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by fivehorses View Post
                              what is your vet saying? who are the deworming experts that told you to double dose?

                              as someone else mentioned, foals can go down hill quick. I would be more inclined to talk to my vet than the internet. Rather, I would want the vet out.
                              I did talk to the vet but, could not reach her while I stated this thread. She does not seem worried and thinks it's just a "thing", that does not mean that I'm not worried a little. He still has no temp, just took it, it outside running around and has clean legs and bum. The vet gave me some bio sponge to use and I gave her a fecal sample in case she decides to send it in. We are going to re-evaluate Thursday evening

                              I am a professional horse person and do not rely on any board however, not one person knows everything (including the vet as you can get many different answers from many different vets) so asking for opinions from breeders because this I am new at is not a bad thing. It helps to hear about other experiences, causes, and treatments that worked and didn't in addtion to brainstorming

                              My foal is in good hands....so if you can be helpful then thanks for posting

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by Laurierace View Post
                                Well you most likely solved the mystery. Water will do that every time.
                                what does the water do? carry bacteria, etc?? he's been playing in it pretty much since birth. he is not afraid of anything...so I did lower the level of the trough so maybe he can't reach in so easily, we'll see. Also have him on bio sponge per the vet and can I say that mixing the powder is no fun!

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by SSFLandon View Post
                                  . He still has no temp, just took it,
                                  Well, I hope he has a temp, otherwise he may very well be in trouble. Hopefully, you just meant, he has no FEVER. lol On a serious note, your vet seems to have it under control. Biosponge is great stuff, it's probably just your mare being in season causing the diarrhea or he's drinking too much water. Either way, just keep monitoring him as you are and things should be just fine.

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #18
                                    haha

                                    @ Dune, yes let me stand corrected he has no fever 100.1

                                    will keep an eye on him! thanks

                                    oh and biosponge poweder MUCH more difficult then the paste, I have it all over me! second dose, new plan to mix it in a cup first not in the syringe which I often do with other meds, I was cleaning the ceiling off

                                    Comment

                                    • Original Poster

                                      #19
                                      an eventful day

                                      well, this AM all was well with some loose poop evidence as I said

                                      went to the vet's to pick up some paperwork and was given some bio sponge.

                                      came home, 11:00 checked temp which was normal and gave bio

                                      it's in the 80's with no clouds so I am aware that the heat can be tough on a foal especially if they are not feeling well so I went to temp him again about 2:00 and he was 102.5 and dry gums (THANKS for that tip!!)

                                      I panicked called vet and brought them inside. I hosed him which he actually does not mind and put them in under a fan, temp went to 101.6 that back to the 100 range

                                      no new poop at all, has peed and nursed many times, been up and down and acting normal otherwise, gums wet again, and eating mom's hay and trying to get her grain so appetite is very good

                                      vet might come out later we will talk regardless but, hopefully the hot sun and them parked in the dirt part of the 5 grass acres made him hot and mildly dehydrated which caused his temp to go up

                                      UPDATE, for those that have offered info
                                      his temp has bounced from 100.5-101.6 (except the 102.5 at 2) from 2:30-6PM, he did pass a huge normal stool but, the vet said to give him bio sponge again, his gums have been wet and overall he seems OK. He has been sleeping but, when he's in he usually spend 1/2 the time sleeping, he is nursing when he wakes up

                                      I'm going to monitor him, medicate him and call her if he gets a fever tonight and touch base regardless with her in the AM
                                      Last edited by SSFLandon; May. 26, 2010, 06:23 PM. Reason: adding info

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