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Why can't he grow heel?! Getting despondent! PICS ADDED 9/22/07 1st Post

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  • #81
    Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
    I am frustrated (not at you). It's like someone posting a picture of a bad saddle fit and saying "why doesn't this fit?!" And everyone posting "get a new saddle." Sure. I can and will. But how will I know that the next saddle fits if I never learn what was wrong with this one?! And looking at pictures of well fitted saddles is helpful but not as helpful as someone knowledgeable sharing why they think THIS saddle is a bad fit.

    Everyone wants me to fire the farrier. Some like barefoot. Some do not. I am not necessarily adverse to (1) getting a new farrier; (2) trying barefoot; (3) trying something different. I was hoping to educate myself better in the process, so I could EVALUATE the work of the farrier instead of hopping from farrier to farrier, knowing the shoeing was not ideal-- but not really understanding why.
    I completely understand how you feel, vxf111. I started trying to do better by my TBs feet 3 years ago and have been thru probably half a dozen farriers/trimmers. It's a long, long process.

    What needs to be done certainly doesn't seem like rocket science, but trying to find someone to do what appears to be right is like trying to find the @#$%#@ holy grail. I hope you have better luck than I have thru this process.

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by Dune View Post
      I don't personally know EqTrainer but it does sound like you need to send him to someone who can really do some hands on work for this horse.
      I personally know her, and can vouch for the ability of ET to find and fix body things! She can trim a mean foot too
      ______________________________
      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #83
        Thank you for the feedback, and especially for the images with the lines (I was able to see them both). That *is* helpful.

        I don't honestly think Shane's feet every quite matched the lines in those drawings. That would make the hoof a little more upright (sorry if that's a poor way of describing it). When I look at the lines, I can see that he has too much toe and could use more heel-- I'm not sure he ever had quite the kind of feet that the lines indicate-- but he was closer.

        So how does one get rid of the toe? Slowly shaving a bit off each time?! But up front in the toe, that's where he bled when he chipped his foot on the ground during shoeing. I wonder if the farrier is scared to cut back there?! Just speculating.

        I can clearly see what posters are saying about the shoes being too small. And I agree. I am not sure I've ever seen them look so small in previous shoeing, but I do see what you're saying when I look at these pictures. I also thought the farrier was going to set them back a little farther so they extended out behind the foot a little bit. Shane pulled his shoes 2x in a row, I wonder if she stopped as a result.

        I do not have a trailer, unfortunately. I also work fairly long hours-- so it's very hard for me to move Shane to a different farrier and/or be there to hold him during the shoeing. I did go out to hold him the first 3 shoeings. Since then, the BM has been holding him for the farrier. At the old barn, the farrier showed up whenever and just did Shane in the crossties. The really good farrier is actually from Chester County PA and doesn't really shoe horses in NJ. He is doing horses at the other barn as a favor to the BO/BM, he does nearly the whole barn, charges a mint, and he's not exactly easy to get out even though he'd got a bunch of horses and we're paying a premium.

        So my choices seem to be either find a different shoer in this area (Franklinville is about 15-20 minutes from where the other horses are, in Mullica Hill-- but because the Mullica Hill farrier is actually PA only, he won't go the extra 15-20 minutes to do one horse. He's really doing a favor by coming to NJ at all)-- or try to convince the BO to allow pasture boarding at the Mullica Hill barn.

        I realize I forgot to mention this earlier, but Shane has West Nile Virus three years ago, and he never was quite the same after. He did recover, but not 100%. He also had strangles followed by several bouts of lyme.

        He came off the track with sticky stifles, and they were okay when he was in work but the combination of lots and lots of time off for illness, plus the lingering effects of West Nile, have left him in less-the-perfect shape. He was trying to get weight off the stifles for a long time and managed to put a lot of wear and tear on his hocks as a result, and his stifles are very bad. He's had pretty much every treatment in the book (except for the stifle cutting/piercing surgery) and has been to New Bolton on multiple ocassions. The last advice I was given was to try turning him out to see if that helped-- it has.

        He really has to live out or he's very very uncomfortable. If he stands in a stall for even 1 hour-- his stifles get so locked up that he can't flex them/bend them-- and he just pivots on his stiff leg to turn around. When he's living out, he looks a bit arthritic but moves pretty fine. Stalling him, even for part of the day, would make him really really uncomfortable. So I feel like I *have* to find a situation where he can live out. The poor shoeing is not ideal, but being stalled makes him very very uncomfortable (and pretty much impossible to shoe, also, as the more uncomfortable/stiff/stifle-locky he is-- the less he's ABLE to hold his foot off the ground for shoeing).

        I'm going to continue to try to convince the BO of the Mullica Hill barn to let me bring him and pasture board him. Also, the next door neighbors are a barn but not a boarding barn (they appear to be a breeding barn). Perhaps they'd let me board him and walk him next door for shoeing. He can be a real turd, I can see where they wouldn't appreciate that. The other alternative is to find a better shoer who will go to a barn in Franklinville NJ to do one horse-- who can be very ANTSY and sometimes cannot hold his hind foot up off the ground for more than 45 seconds at a time and has to constantly walk every few minutes during shoe. Easy sell... right...?!

        Sending him to NC is a really, really last resort. First of all, at the moment he's retired-- and if I figured it out correctly-- the cost of sending him to NC for the winter (including shipping, which is the BIG expense) would be more than I am paying to board my 2 riding horses now. He's supposed to be retired, I'd like to find something in NJ/PA before I spend that much.

        He's 8, BTW. And I'd post a picture of us showing o/f before he got sick-- except me never made it that far. I think I showed Shane 2-3 times on the flat and that was it. I've had him since he was 4, been supporting him for about 3 years in which he was pretty much too lame to ride. Invested so much money in him trying to get him sound-- it makes me ill to think about it. I want to do right by him and make him comfortable-- but I also have to try to be reasonable about what I do in terms of time, money etc. I've already invested a LOT in him and been very disappointed. All I am hoping for now is comfortable pasture puff. If he was sound enough to do a little light riding/trail riding-- that'd be ideal. I don't dare think about anything more.

        Thanks for all the help.
        ~Veronica
        "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
        http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

        Comment


        • #84
          I really feel for you, and I know what it's like to feel the frustration over an inability to get competent work done on one's horse.

          The farrier you currently have, as so many have told you, is not helping your horse. You honestly won't know how well your horse did (or did not) recover from his bouts with WNV and lyme until you get the feet right, or closer to being right.

          The cost of shipping the horse wouldn't worry me so much (especially if you're already paying $250 every four weeks to have him shod), but I would be concerned about his general health and the reaction to a long trailer ride.

          Can you talk frankly to your vet about the problem, and ask for his or her best guess as to how well the horse would react? If it's possible, a winter in NC might be just the thing.

          When I was having problems with my TB mare (she also was 8 at the time and was also diagnosed--eventually--with lyme disease), I remember telling one vet, the one who eventually really helped her, that I *knew* there was a sound horse inside there. It did take the new vet as well as ditching my old farrier (who was farrier #2), and finding a new trimmer (which was a psychodrama in and of itself) before the horse began to come right.

          Good luck and, to borrow a French exhortation, courage!
          "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #85
            Frankly, I don't know that Shane could handle standing on a trailer for the distance between NC and NJ. Assuming he'd load. Since he's had his stifle issues, he's become downright impossible to load. I think it's in part due to the fact that he gets locked up when standing still AND feels very unsteady on his feet. We barely got him on and transported from Chester County to NJ. I really don't think, for both practical and financial reasons, that transporting Shane back and forth to NC is a workable solution. Not to mention, I psychologically have a tough time with the idea of thinking about having him that far from me, where I couldn't check in on him etc.
            ~Veronica
            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

            Comment


            • #86
              Can you try and find a reputable barefoot style trimmer up in your area? I would do pretty much what EqTrainer said except I'd hate to see you put shoes back on him in the Spring if he's retired...and I'd seriously doubt you'll need them anyway. A good pair of boots will probably really help him also if you want to transition him from shod to barefoot. For turn out we are having great luck with the Boas. They are easy to use and stay on well.

              His feet are quite a mess... and I won't go into it more as others have done a good job of explaining what is wrong and how to fix it. Your current farrier is not doing him any favors.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Posting Trot View Post
                I

                Good luck and, to borrow a French exhortation, courage!
                And to add one more French exhortation, My Mother-In-Laws Famous "French Woman Shrug"! Which translates into: "I have offered my assistance; I am not offended if you chose to not accept it. It is your horse, your choice" You gotta love those French Women and their expressions.

                Truly, I think if the OP is that uncomfortable sending him away then she should not. I don't think the trailer ride would be that hard on him; we've shipped horses here from NJ in much worse shape - and the expenses could not begin to ching! ching! the way they are paying that much money for shoes every month. So the bottom line is really, if she cannot feel comfortable not being able to check on him then she should not send him. Let's simply close that line of thought and try to focus maybe on finding her a barefoot trimmer somewhere closer to home. There has to be *someone* up there?!!!!
                "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                ---
                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                Comment


                • #88
                  Contact Rick Burten "hoofrx1" here at COTH about the login issues at www.horseshoes.com, maybe he can help.

                  Look at every hoof site you can, barefoot, shod, everything. All have good notes to add about proper hoof form. Once you understand proper hoof form, it's makes identifying pathologies and inappropriate trimming/shoeing much more obvious.

                  Originally posted by vxf111 View Post
                  So how does one get rid of the toe? Slowly shaving a bit off each time?! But up front in the toe, that's where he bled when he chipped his foot on the ground during shoeing. I wonder if the farrier is scared to cut back there?! Just speculating.
                  I own one of those. Follks looked at my guy's shoeing, "Why didn't so-and-so bring the toes back more?" Well, my guy would bleed all over us! We had to wedge my guy into proper P3 alignment and support him with equipak and within a few months, the toes for some reason didn't bleed when we brought the toe back. I do not understand the biomechanics of how this happens. I'm just glad it does.

                  Originally posted by vfx111
                  I can clearly see what posters are saying about the shoes being too small. And I agree. I am not sure I've ever seen them look so small in previous shoeing, but I do see what you're saying when I look at these pictures. I also thought the farrier was going to set them back a little farther so they extended out behind the foot a little bit. Shane pulled his shoes 2x in a row, I wonder if she stopped as a result.
                  The horse is hangin' out the back of his flip flops. He's got pressure points bearing hard into his heels. Instead of a blister like you and I would get, he's got metal jamming into his foot. It may be that the horse just has clearance when first shod, then as he grows foot...hangin' out the back.

                  Originally posted by vfx111
                  I do not have a trailer, unfortunately. I also work fairly long hours-- so it's very hard for me to move Shane to a different farrier and/or be there to hold him during the shoeing. I did go out to hold him the first 3 shoeings. Since then, the BM has been holding him for the farrier. At the old barn, the farrier showed up whenever and just did Shane in the crossties. The really good farrier is actually from Chester County PA and doesn't really shoe horses in NJ. He is doing horses at the other barn as a favor to the BO/BM, he does nearly the whole barn, charges a mint, and he's not exactly easy to get out even though he'd got a bunch of horses and we're paying a premium.

                  So my choices seem to be either find a different shoer in this area (Franklinville is about 15-20 minutes from where the other horses are, in Mullica Hill-- but because the Mullica Hill farrier is actually PA only, he won't go the extra 15-20 minutes to do one horse. He's really doing a favor by coming to NJ at all)-- or try to convince the BO to allow pasture boarding at the Mullica Hill barn.
                  Can a friend help you with a trailer?

                  Originally posted by vfx111
                  I realize I forgot to mention this earlier, but Shane has West Nile Virus three years ago, and he never was quite the same after. He did recover, but not 100%. He also had strangles followed by several bouts of lyme.

                  He came off the track with sticky stifles, and they were okay when he was in work but the combination of lots and lots of time off for illness, plus the lingering effects of West Nile, have left him in less-the-perfect shape. He was trying to get weight off the stifles for a long time and managed to put a lot of wear and tear on his hocks as a result, and his stifles are very bad. He's had pretty much every treatment in the book (except for the stifle cutting/piercing surgery) and has been to New Bolton on multiple ocassions. The last advice I was given was to try turning him out to see if that helped-- it has.

                  He really has to live out or he's very very uncomfortable. If he stands in a stall for even 1 hour-- his stifles get so locked up that he can't flex them/bend them-- and he just pivots on his stiff leg to turn around. When he's living out, he looks a bit arthritic but moves pretty fine. Stalling him, even for part of the day, would make him really really uncomfortable. So I feel like I *have* to find a situation where he can live out. The poor shoeing is not ideal, but being stalled makes him very very uncomfortable (and pretty much impossible to shoe, also, as the more uncomfortable/stiff/stifle-locky he is-- the less he's ABLE to hold his foot off the ground for shoeing).
                  My guy is out 24/7 even with glue ons. It can be done. My guy is better off out too.

                  Originally posted by vfx111
                  I'm going to continue to try to convince the BO of the Mullica Hill barn to let me bring him and pasture board him. Also, the next door neighbors are a barn but not a boarding barn (they appear to be a breeding barn). Perhaps they'd let me board him and walk him next door for shoeing. He can be a real turd, I can see where they wouldn't appreciate that. The other alternative is to find a better shoer who will go to a barn in Franklinville NJ to do one horse-- who can be very ANTSY and sometimes cannot hold his hind foot up off the ground for more than 45 seconds at a time and has to constantly walk every few minutes during shoe. Easy sell... right...?!
                  Drugs help. I know many people don't agree with this, but a horse with pain issues is going to dance. My guy gets a painkiller and/or sedative, period. Sometimes I actually insist on it even when Jaye thinks my guy will be fine without it.
                  RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
                  5/5/84-7/12/08

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #89
                    <<Truly, I think if the OP is that uncomfortable sending him away then she should not. I don't think the trailer ride would be that hard on him; we've shipped horses here from NJ in much worse shape - and the expenses could not begin to ching! ching! the way they are paying that much money for shoes every month. So the bottom line is really, if she cannot feel comfortable not being able to check on him then she should not send him. Let's simply close that line of thought and try to focus maybe on finding her a barefoot trimmer somewhere closer to home. There has to be *someone* up there?!!!! >>

                    I do very much appreciate the offer, thank you. I would like to try finding a close option before exploring the possibility of sending Shane to NC. Not ruling out the idea, but I think it makes sense to try to find a closer option before sending him away.

                    Last time I got shipping quotes, it was from VA to NJ and I was getting $700-800 quotes for that! That's how much I paid 4 years ago to ship 2 horses from GA to PA! So I suspect the shipping from NJ to NC is going to be in the $1000 range, each way.... WOWZA!

                    Right now Shane's board, shoeing, and the grooming/groundwork together are about $Y month. Just taking a random guess, if I moved him to Mullica Hill-- I think I'd be paying something like $Y+100/month?! Just guessing, since there's currently no pasture board option and I am guessing what they'd charge for that.

                    So assuming he stays in NC for 6 months... that's about $X ish give or take. If he stays in NJ, it's more in the neighborhood of $X-1000. So it's not a HUGE financial difference-- but the thought of not being able to see him for 6 months-- that's kind of hard. I am going to consider the possibility of sending him to NC, but I do think I owe it to myself to explore closer options first.
                    Last edited by vxf111; Sep. 24, 2007, 02:19 PM. Reason: Removing the prices relating to board in NC
                    ~Veronica
                    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by vxf111 View Post

                      Last time I got shipping quotes, it was from VA to NJ and I was getting $700-800 quotes for that! That's how much I paid 4 years ago to ship 2 horses from GA to PA! So I suspect the shipping from NJ to NC is going to be in the $1000 range, each way.... WOWZA!
                      You may want to shop around some more. I've know horses shipped door-to-door with several companies for the following recent rates:

                      Ohio to NY - $425 (box stall)
                      NY to NC (2x) - $400 (standard stall)
                      NY to FL - $500 (box stall)

                      Good luck with whatever you decide! But I do wish I could send my horse some where that he could get good trims and someone to keep on top of it.

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        .
                        Last edited by Dune; Sep. 24, 2007, 06:29 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          I think if I answered that I would be walking the line on the advertising rule.
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #93
                            Sorry, I do NOT want anyone to think I am trying to advertise. I am going to go edit the NC board prices out of my prior post. They're really rough estimates anyway.
                            ~Veronica
                            "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
                            http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              Backing the toes up - done from the front, not the bottom If you didn't have shoes on the feet, you would see that the white line is stretched and serving no purpose. It is possible in many feet to make a vertical cut (see the barefoothorse site for diagrams of that) all the way back to the edge of the sole, eliminating toe that is beyond the point of the proper breakover One might have to work on that over many months in order to start coercing the foot to reshape and recede in that area.

                              There are long toes on the hind feet, and that is death to stifles, especially ones that are already having problems.
                              ______________________________
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                I am sorry, blonde, trying to piece everything together.
                                1. you know horse's feet arent right, and you are willing to do what is needed to change that as long as it doesnt cause you or your horse unjustifiable stress. got it.
                                2. you want to learn
                                3. you would prefer not to move

                                Have you considered learning how yourself? There are lots of barefoot clinicians out there with really great take home learning systems, that when combined with a live clinic or two you'll be a mile ahead of the game...
                                does it help your horse for the next 3 months, no, but it would help in the long run since the right farrier for your horse doesnt seem to be a feezable close by thing.

                                just a thought.
                                www.destinationconsensusequus.com
                                chaque pas est fait ensemble

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  To keep this as short but informative as possible. .... I never read all of the posts.

                                  1) But, one of the first things that struck me was how UNDERSIZED the shoe is in the original photos. You have to have the rear of the shoe back out to where the HEEL should be to encourage the heel to come back to that point.

                                  2) Trim every 4-5 weeks to stay ahead of the foot developing the WRONG breakover point (it can go downhill in only ~5 days once it starts).

                                  3) TAKE OFF THE HEEL IF IT IS UNDER RUN. Refusing to touch the heel when it's underrun only exacerbates the issue! You have to let it get a "clean start" then go from there.

                                  4) Ensure that the frog and BARS have SUPPORT. Wedge shoes alone will elevate the frog and bars ... and in the end, they can weaken terribly .... my horse's frog practically shriveled up and more or less DIED at one point when God's gift to horse owners put on WEDGE pads with NO packing for support. ... If that happens, then, you have an imbalanced contact, screwed up blood supply, etc. .... The right packing (every horse is different) is your friend if you have to use wedges on aTEMPORARY BAIS (THEY SHOULD NEVER BE PERMANENT! ... If they are, you had better find out what your farrier is doing wrong ... they are STOP GAP and NO MORE!

                                  5) Rocker the toe to help get the correct breakover.

                                  6) Set the shoe back to do the same.

                                  I tell you all of this as a simple LAY PERSON who, since last Oct. has watched her 1/4 TB go more and more lame, with the foot angles becoming increasingly incorrect. .... 4 farriers later (all of them making varying mistakes ... if only I could combine the BEST OF ALL THREE of them I'd have had a decent trim and shoe job ... and likely a SOUND HORSE).

                                  We ended up with a Dx of "early stage/ mild Navicular" when I hauled to Cleveland and got an MRI in Feb. .... Oh, and about 14 of each foot, digital xrays from Nov. and Jan. vet visits ...

                                  Then, months later still battling all the same problems -- in 3rd week of July -- frustrated at the lack of progress, I hauled to both Dr's Hopper (ortho) and Morrison (podiatrist) at Rood and Riddle in Lexington, KY. I knew going in I had major problems. They took more of the same digital Xrays ( ACK! ... more big $'s!!!!!) ....

                                  But, the best news? NO NAVICULAR. Only a "navicular like syndrome" from having the breakover wrong for so long that the internal structures (too many to mention) got sore from everything pulling the wrong direction at the wrong time ...

                                  I knew I had major angle issues and foot problems going in .... Question was, how to REPAIR the mess?

                                  The answers are in the numbered bullets above (at least for MY horse, but the principles should apply to all hooves).

                                  In ONE shoeing at R & R, the horse went more sound than he has in a long time. Even tho he is a 1/4 TB with a flat sole, thin sole and funky angle to one of his fetlocks (term is "coon footed"), I asked Dr. Morrison at 3rd week of July if he'd be a barefoot candidate. He felt that he would, over time, since he has good horn (even with the FLAT thin sole, so I was elated to hear this).

                                  .... BTW -- Before the R & R trip, I had been thru 11 farriers/ blacksmiths in my tenure at this location. And, only 6 exist, LOL~! ... However, I knew of TWO (count 'em, TWO) whole local guys who actually did a decent job TRIMMING a foot / balancing it well.

                                  I knew I had no choice for where I now live ... I had to get away from the metal if ALL of my horses and I were to survive living here. Meaning, I could quit battling guys who can't do any more than TRIM (metal just not their thang .. perhaps it interacts with ALCOHOL ???? !), and horses would have a prayer of staying sound.


                                  On Aug. 31, we went back to Rood and Riddle (6+ hour haul ONE WAY), and Dr. Morrison felt the horse could go barefoot. I couldn't believe how quickly we'd made progress.

                                  While I bemoan a FULL YEAR of lost training on a 9 y.o. who is already behind and the $10K in vet bills involved over the past year .... I was also AMAZED to see the horse go REALLY TRULY sound. I can't help but feel, personally, that no matter HOW CORRECTLY that the wedge pads were applied (it doesn't get any better than Rood and Riddle podiatry), they were STILL causing some HEEL PAIN. Because, he stepped out instantly VERY SOUND and stayed that way once barefoot. He even got INCREASINGLY MORE SOUND DAILY, as opposed to previously, when he got a pulse and went CONSISTENTLY MORE LAME for several days thereafter, even on Bute, etc.

                                  Yes ... his stride is shorter with the rockered toes, so he isn't going to go to the Olympics with his shorter stride these days .... And, we sure won't be first in the long strided dressage arenas, but the possibility of us being in the shows AT ALL was looking impossible only a few months ago ... so I am THRILLED!

                                  FYI -- This horse also starts to get a little funky now (after recent improvements from the bad period we've had) at about 3.5 weeks. .... But, the one foot (the one that is somewhat coon footed) is still a different angle than the other one. Over time, I think he will even out ... This is NOT lame, this is mechanical due to the uneven angles which we hope to fix this week in another trim ...... I can tell the difference in the horse .... Also, I know I will never be able to go over 5 weeks on his trims.

                                  I am content now for us to be barefoot. IT WORKS. He is COMFORTABLE with NO HEEL PAIN. I am tickled pink to be bringing him back up to par in EVERYTHING again with our work.

                                  The whole bitter experience cost me over $10K. Needless to say, I am now a HUGE ADVOCATE FOR OWNERS TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES AND FOR FARRIERS TO PROPERLY BALANCE FEET. And, instead of having more tolerance for less than perfect farriery work, I EXPECT ONLY 100% ALL THE TIME.

                                  I'll be damned if I pay out another $10K and nearly lose a horse over incompetent farrier work. After all, if a plumber screwed up my pipes and that resulted in $10K worth of damages, I could take him to Small Claims court and get my money back. And, FWIW, if I screwed up an in engineering work, and someone got killed, I would ALSO be held liable ... With the farriers, they just hop on to the next client's coattails after having gotten away with totally incompetent work, the results of which clearly damaged their clients (the horses).

                                  The only answer is to EDUCATE YOURSELF. If you only know the horse ABOVE THE KNEE, you started at the wrong end. You should know their FEET FIRST (no foot = no horse) and then go up.


                                  I have photos of EVERYTHING done along the way. PM me if you want me to forward them. They .......... are .......... SCARY!

                                  Pest
                                  "If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else."

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                                  • #97
                                    Originally posted by magnum View Post
                                    Yes ... his stride is shorter with the rockered toes, so he isn't going to go to the Olympics with his shorter stride these days
                                    Rockering should only be a means to an end, not the end result itself. So as time goes on and the breakover gets to where it should be without rockering, you won't have any rocker and you SHOULD have a full-strided horse.
                                    ______________________________
                                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                                    • #98
                                      Originally posted by JB View Post
                                      Rockering should only be a means to an end, not the end result itself. So as time goes on and the breakover gets to where it should be without rockering, you won't have any rocker and you SHOULD have a full-strided horse.
                                      In addition to this, I don't usually note a horses reach being shorter with a rockered toe.. unless he is still trying to land toe first to avoid heel pain on landing. Usually their front ends get more extravagant.. sometimes to the point of alarm on my part like - hello, we aren't doing the Spanish walk today!
                                      "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                                      ---
                                      The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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                                      • #99
                                        Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                                        In addition to this, I don't usually note a horses reach being shorter with a rockered toe.. unless he is still trying to land toe first to avoid heel pain on landing. Usually their front ends get more extravagant.. sometimes to the point of alarm on my part like - hello, we aren't doing the Spanish walk today!
                                        I didn't note a shortened stride with my guy either. Actually, it sort of lengthened it in that his breakover was in a much more comfortable position. He's in Morrison's roller motion shoes (slight wedge with rolled toes and heels) with Sigafoos cuffs.
                                        RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
                                        5/5/84-7/12/08

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                                        • OP,

                                          Where in NJ are you located?

                                          Regards,

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