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How many lbs of hay per 100 lbs in horse weight to feed?

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  • #41
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    My 16.2 TB gelding weighed, on the scale at the NCSU vet school, 1320lb

    "TB" doesn't automatically mean light and lean
    Yup. My older Tb who does his best impression of a Sam Savitt painting kicked in at almost 1250lbs when he was in his wafer thin days (and yes, I so said "wafer" like John Cleese). Uh, he hit his more solid days a few years later - I would guess probably 1325lbs at 16'2 and change.

    I'm a chronic "under-estimator" of weight. I always assume they are less than they inevitably end up on the scales, although the weight/height/heart girth formula has been the most accurate estimate based on subsequent vet school scale results.
    Your crazy is showing. You might want to tuck that back in.

    Comment


    • #42
      I was starting to reply and it turned into sort of an article......

      My vet insists that horses and ponies receive superior nutrition when they are given feed according to the feed bag instructions. He laughs when he hears people say they feed a horse a "1/2 scoop" of a complete feed like purina Horse Chow 100.

      Many barn managers feed a standard ration of hay to their clients horses and then adjust the "barn grains" (typically a 10% pellet and a sweet feed) to each horse to maintain weight.

      Modern horse feeds are designed to provide optimal nutrition when fed at the rate indicated on the bags label.

      A horse needs to be given adequate hay or pasture to maintain gastrointestinal health as they are grazing animals designed by nature to continuously forage.

      Having continuous access to forage can help prevent the development of behavioral issues, vices, colic, and ulcers.

      1-1.5% of a horse’s body weight is a good minimum forage rule for most horses, but all horse owners should also be aware of their horses total nutrition needs.

      A good rule of thumb is to feed a maximum of forage to a minimum of concentrate (grain) at a rate that maintains your horses body condition and energy needs.

      To help accomplish this goal, feed manufactures now make products called "ration balancers". A ration balancer is a nutrient dense "grain" designed to be feed at very low rates.

      In some cases as little as a handful of a ration balancer AM & PM along with forage will provide a horse with all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and protein required to maintain condition.

      A ration balancer can be thought of as more of a vitamin, mineral, and protein supplement, then a grain.

      There are also "lite feeds" available that offer a good "middle ground" of nutritional density between that of the ration balancer and the complete feed.

      "One size fits all" diets are simpler and less expensive for many barn managers to implement, but some of the horses may not be receiving the proper nutrition or roughage to meet their needs.

      Hay should be tested for nutrient content for the primary reason of insuring that proper protein levels are available for the horse. An average mature idle horse requires an absolute minimum protein level of 8% as a total calculated from all feeds and forages given. If the hay is cut late, or old, it may be too low in protein. Higher protein concentrates may then be given at a proper rate to supplement the hay.

      For most horses it is usually better to start your feeding program with the intention of feeding your horse as much forage as is reasonably posable for that individual horse.

      Then in the case of a hard keeper, add in addition to the forage ration, an appropriate amount of concentrate to meet the horses nutritional and energy needs, and also to maintain weight. Be sure to give an amount of concentrate as recommended on the feed bags label for the horses weight. This will assure that the horse is receiving enough concentrate to provide the necessary levels of nutrition.

      In the case of the easy keeper, the ideal way to think of the diet is to establish the appropriate amount of forage that keeps the horse in the proper weight, and then to remove a portion of that forage and replace it with enough concentrate to provide the necessary levels of nutrition.

      Because the general rule is that the horse needs as much forage as posable, a minimum forage level of 1-1.5% of the horses body weight of good quality hay or the equivalent in pasture will assure adequate forage for most easy keeper horses.

      Ideally, after the feed calculation is preformed for the easy keeper, a quantity of a "regular grain" fed at the minimum rate according to the label will be sufficient.

      However for many easy keepers feeding at the minimum label indicated rate, with a minimum forage intake level, would result in weight gain.

      This is where the Lite feeds and Ration balancers can provide a solution, as you can reduce the grain amount to a very small fraction of the horses diet, and still maintain proper nutritional values, adequate forage intake, and control weight gain.

      Many easy keepers also benefit from regular exercise to help maintain proper weight. In some horses or ponies, a lower quality forage may be needed to maintain a minimum forage intake level without predisposing the horse or pony to excessive weight gain.

      Comment


      • #43
        Yes, there are lots of barns/barn owners where the care is absolutely wonderful, but there are also a lot of them still sort of living in the "one scoop of grain, two flakes of hay each" era. There needs to be a boarder's bill of rights! And to be fair, there needs to be a barn owner/manager's bill of rights, too--for every "one scoop, two flakes" BO, there's probably at least one "six blankets, 12 supplements, 3 bandages and oh my horse is allergic to grass" boarder.
        I'm definitely with the idea of a bill of rights both way.


        Call me nuts, but my niece runs a child-day-care center. She cooks a meal for the children everyday, including fresh veggies, fruits, grainbar in the afternoon etc. This based upon generally accepted and recommended nutritional guidelines, not something she came up with herself. Actually this is back home in Belgium, she is government checked bi-monthly on the quality of what is brought onto the table.
        And it isn't because it's "my day-care-center, my rules, my standards" that for convenience reasons she can give the kiddos some Mars bars, high energy drinks and cookies daily. If she did, the parents would be at her in no time, they wouldn't necessarily move (not enough centers in the area), they'd request a better nutrition.
        However somehow when it comes to our equine friends being boarded, as owners we seem to accept that because "their ban, their rules, their standards", even if veterinary & nutritional recommended guidelines are x amount of roughage prior to concentrates, we accept that we have no say in this.
        And we therefore prefer to spent even more dollars on xyz supplement, balancer, etc etc.; rather then expect a feedprogram based upon what is 'known' to be the basis of you average nutritional horse's needs.
        Something doesn't seem right to me.

        Again many barns take each individual horse's need into consideration. Actually I boarded at a facility with 250 horses in the past, and every stall door had precise feeding instructions written on there by the owners, such as x number of flakes of hay, x scoops of concetrate, plus put hay in haynet, or feed only haylage on floor, please wet concentrate, please feed concentrate from bin next to stall door. etc etc. Whilst the staff wasn't always reading things correctly, at least the owner was in charge of the horse's nutrition, the basis of any well-being program in my mind.

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #44
          Originally posted by Lieslot View Post
          However somehow when it comes to our equine friends being boarded, as owners we seem to accept that because "their ban, their rules, their standards", even if veterinary & nutritional recommended guidelines are x amount of roughage prior to concentrates, we accept that we have no say in this.
          And we therefore prefer to spent even more dollars on xyz supplement, balancer, etc etc.; rather then expect a feedprogram based upon what is 'known' to be the basis of you average nutritional horse's needs.
          Something doesn't seem right to me.
          this is so true. Many people are so ready to accept that the facility is calling all the shots - doesn't matter that the boarder is paying the bills. Yet when the boarder speaks up and questions the methods or asks for change, the boarder is often labeled a 'trouble maker' because he/she questions that the facility might not be doing something that isn't in the best interest of the horse. Or perhaps it implies that the facility doesn't necessary know as much as they might imply about nutrition. Or it all boils down to money - as in the more hay they feed, the more money it costs!

          Comment


          • #45
            Thankfully I've never boarded anywhere that the BO or BM had any decision making capabilities on the nutrition needs of my horses.
            However I've also never boarded anywhere that didn't have a guideline list of what amount and type of nutrition was included in the board price. I'd check these out before moving in, ask about adding extras and what the cost of that would be and made my decision to move in or not based on that.
            All boarding barns around here state (and should state in their boarding contracts) hay is fed ___ times per day up to ____ amount/lbs. Grain fed ____ times per day up to ____ amount/lbs. Supplements added/or not at owner's request...to be paid for and supplied by owner.
            Then if my horse(s) required more hay or hay more often or required a different type or amount of grain...I supplied it and paid whatever extra it cost. Did the same with bedding...if I wanted a deeper bedded stall my options were: pay for more bedding and pay a extra for the extra time to clean a deeper bedded stall *or* supply my own extra bedding on top of barn's normal amount and show up to pick through it better daily before riding. And on days I didn't make it there...horses survived with whatever the staff removed.

            I've pretty much almost always paid for extra hay or brought more of my own hay...I had the oversized hard keeper horse. Couldn't expect to find a barn that would happily pay for the massive amounts of hay my giant prone-to-lose-weight mare required. Heck...when I brought her home I wasn't happy paying for that much extra, LOL!

            But my advice would be...check a boarding barn's guidelines for amounts of hay given daily. If they do NOT have that listed...ask and then have that amount written into your boarding contract and signed. Then pay for the extra you require. Or don't move in. It's odd to move into a barn with established budgets and guidelines and then try to force them to change without offering extra.

            However there's no way on God's green Earth I'd allow a BO or BM to make the nutritional decisions for my horses. When I boarded I paid for room and board for my horses like a storage center or hotel...I did not pay for advice on how to care for, ride or feed my horses.
            You jump in the saddle,
            Hold onto the bridle!
            Jump in the line!
            ...Belefonte

            Comment


            • #46
              Thoroughbred seem to be hard keepers even when they are getting plenty of hay. If you horse is acting hungry I would be very concerned. However if he is not he is probably getting enough hay but needs that extra something that most thoroughbreds require. A lot of people swear by Cocosoya Oil. It is affordable. Great for your horse and very digestible. Here a is link where I have purchased it in the past on horses I am trying to put weight on.

              http://www.farmvet.com/p-610-cocosoya-oil.aspx

              Comment


              • #47
                But my advice would be...check a boarding barn's guidelines for amounts of hay given daily. If they do NOT have that listed...ask and then have that amount written into your boarding contract and signed. Then pay for the extra you require. Or don't move in. It's odd to move into a barn with established budgets and guidelines and then try to force them to change without offering extra.
                That's what a lot of folks seem to forget. Boarding barns operate on budgets and guidelines. I had a boarder move out once because despite having it explicitly explained what their board covered in the contract, they wanted more and didn't want to pay for it. They honestly told me I needed to rework my contract to what they wanted but that they weren't paying anymore than they already were. Of course they bounced without notice and without paying board for the month they started into.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post

                  However there's no way on God's green Earth I'd allow a BO or BM to make the nutritional decisions for my horses. When I boarded I paid for room and board for my horses like a storage center or hotel...I did not pay for advice on how to care for, ride or feed my horses.
                  there are all kinds of people who do pay barn folks cause they don't know themselves

                  Tamara in TN
                  Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
                  I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by crazy gray horse View Post
                    WOW - thank you everyone for your input. I will admit that I am a control freak and I prefer to have my horses at home where I can manage them myself. However, this year my daughter's horse is at the boarding facility because of the indoor. I still micromanage

                    The horse is a 16.2, large boned TB easily 1200 lbs, but still not quite the weight where he should be . He is a horse with a high metabolism. He can eat all day long and never become overweight! In fact at home, he eats roughly 1 1/2 bales.

                    At any rate, barn feeds 2 flakes am, 4 flakes dinner and another 1 or 2 at 10 pm if it's cold. Now the problem with this is that the flakes vary in weight and size. He can eat 2 flakes in under an hour. It's winter so there is no forage and there is no hay in the pastures. Any extra hay must be paid for - I've had this discussion with the BM. I'm OK with bringing hay from home to supplement because my horses health and well being is my primary concern. I just needed a guideline to go by.


                    you need to feed grian little and often and work him about 20mins and build him up to an hour what you dont want to do is run the weight off by to much work
                    you feed to the work given and to the size and type of the horse
                    if how ever he needs more hay then ab lib it
                    your horse is 16.2h and your said hes getting 8 flakes in total
                    mate a 16.2hh horse can eat abale of hay in day easy if not enough grass
                    so up the hay quota and feed him ab lib

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      there are all kinds of people who do pay barn folks cause they don't know themselves
                      Very true and combine that with a BO that's convinced that 2 flakes am & 2 flakes pm is totally adequate, poor horses.

                      It would be nice if BO's had some kind of nutritional guidelines they have to read up on in order to manage a barn and care for other people's horses. Some BO's know about the minimum roughage quantities needed, but as many horseowners don't know, there's a number of BO's out there too that aren't aware of the 2% per BW.

                      Comment


                      • #51
                        Originally posted by goeslikestink View Post
                        your horse is 16.2h and your said hes getting 8 flakes in total
                        mate a 16.2hh horse can eat abale of hay in day easy if not enough grass
                        so up the hay quota and feed him ab lib
                        You don't even know how much those flakes weigh. The could easily be 4lb flakes, and that's 32lb of hay. That's 2% for a 1600lb horse, and I bet this horse doesn't weigh that.

                        But yes, the ideal situation is free choice hay for a horse who needs weight.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          there are all kinds of people who do pay barn folks cause they don't know themselves

                          Tamara in TN
                          Most definitely agree! And then it's great when the BOs or BMs know and can provide what the horse needs.

                          And then there's the type of owner who is learning but wants to change the care and feed every few days because they read or heard something new/different. Yeah, that would drive me bananas.

                          But when I was still boarding...one of my biggest "Needs" in a barn was that I maintained control of my horses' diets. However I was always very up front with asking what their feeding protocol and amounts were and then offering/asking if they would allow me to either pay for more if needed or to bring extra in.

                          That was right under Safe Facilities and Barn Owner Not Insane Meth Head. Somewhere near the bottom of the list but still important was Stall Not Near Crazy Boarder if that could be arranged, LOL!

                          Boarders...we have to ask *everything* before moving into a new barn. Really nice facilities are all well and good, but they don't seem that great if the care sucks. And be prepared to offer more if you require more feed for your horse. Nothing's free in life, BOs make piddly profits to begin with and they're only there to house and care for your horse...not subsidize your hobby for you.

                          JMHO. And that's the "you" in general and not meaning the OP. But there are tons of "BO not feeding enough" threads...we need to learn exactly what our horse's require for nutrition, exactly what the BO provides in both quantity and quality and then either be prepared to pay for extra *if* it's needed (and not just because you like the idea of your horse having enough hay to eat 24 hours and poop and pee in it) or if you can't/won't pay extra...do not move there.
                          You jump in the saddle,
                          Hold onto the bridle!
                          Jump in the line!
                          ...Belefonte

                          Comment


                          • #53
                            When I boarded, I controlled what my horses ate, within reason. Meaning both were smallish barns and yeah, they fed feed I was at ease with, and neither had the room to tinker with their main 'feed', across anywhere from 10-25 horses, b/c of tiny feed rooms in old barns...and hay was bought in small batches from various sources so testing it was out the window.
                            BUT-

                            Mine are not high performance animals and frankly, getting into a pissing contest in a small barn w/ limited room for a bunch of diff. horses getting a bunch of different feeds just wasn't reasonable or even something I considered. I don't think I was an odd ball in that regard. I tweaked supps and add ons, yes, but both served up good quality feeds I was happy with at the time.

                            Now that the horses have been home for 10 years, no way I could go back to boarding. The urge and ability to tweak is readily available and thusly exercised LOL. So much has changed in ten yrs in how we think about feeding, My gosh what BO would want to have one bin of Strategy, one of SafeChoice, one of LMF, one of Omolene 100, one of Triple Crown Complete, one for TC Senior, and oh there's the Jr, and oh there's the other bin....

                            Never have I personally run across 'you can't feed them extra hay' or 'you can't bring in your own hay and give them more'. When I HAVE heard griping and moaning is throwing half a bale in Buddy's stall whereupon he pulls it out and pees all over half of it, and grinds the other into the manure. ONLY when the horse wastes good money, I mean hay, in copious fashion, have I ever observed a BO/BM fuss about it. OR if the horse is morbidly obese and more hay is to comfort the indulgent owner, not to feed the needy horse.

                            Comment


                            • #54

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