• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 1/26/16)
See more
See less

Beet Pulp and Older Horse Kidneys

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Beet Pulp and Older Horse Kidneys

    A friend has an older horse. His age is unknown but he is at least in the mid-20's. He is having trouble putting and keeping weight on. He has always had diarrhea to one degree or another, she has managed to manage it more or less but it gets better, then worse, then better. She has tried all the usual things for it in terms of supplements and such.

    I have suggested that she stop feeding grain thinking he just can't digest it (like in the manner that an EPSM horse would have trouble with grain) which would require a substitute such as beet pulp and oil which I suggested. ONe of the horses in my barn had projectile diarrhea forever until he was finally put on an EPSM diet which has helped. The vet nixed both those ideas. The oil she thought could make his diarrhea worse (it's liquidy when it's bad) and said beet pulp was not good for an older horse because it could be hard on the kidneys.

    I've never heard that one before; I'm wondering if she was thinking of alfalfa and excessive protein. Or could she have meant too much calcium would be hard on the kidneys? I have always thought that calcium was an issue of balance but not total dietary amount. Has anyone heard this before? Her suggestions were hay stretcher pellets, which doesn't seem like enough calories to me to do the job.

    ETA: she also nixed rice bran but I don't know the reason why.

  • #2
    Hmmm...well, my old guy lived on quite a bit of beet pulp in combination with senior feed for several years when hay became scarce. He lived to be 33 before Cushings got too chronic for him. I have had several other geriatrics in their 20's on beet pulp with no repercussions. I believe at one point, my vets recommended I put one of the oldsters on beet pulp when that particular horse lost some teeth and hay was becoming difficult for him to chew. As far as the oil tho, I could see how it might be a bit too much of a lubricant. But I'd still be tempted to try a little beet pulp and work up to a larger amount for any older horse.
    Susan N.

    Don't get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am, my attitude depends on who you are.

    Comment


    • #3
      Anecdotal I know, but I've got an ancient one (~35) here that lives on a slurry of soaked beet pulp/alfalfa cubes/TC Senior.

      No kidney problems. I think I'd get another vets opinion.
      Save lives! Adopt a pet from your local shelter.

      Comment


      • #4
        We have an old guy that's 36. He's had no hay for about 7 years. He's fat and sassy living on beet pulp, a small amount of alfalfa pellets for flavor, and a quart size scoop of senior feed (all soaked). He's fed twice a day and we adjust the level of beet pulp by what he eats. It varies by the season. He has cetrtainly outlived all expectations. If you have an old timer that needs weight I would check a little further into adding it into his diet.

        Comment


        • #5
          You'd hate to think a vet (or anyone else) would throw out a term like that without a specific reason, but it does seem that "it's hard on the kidneys" gets to be a boilerplate criticism for "I don't like this particular feed, don't use it" sometimes. Just looking at what's in it gives me no particular clue as to why it would be considered hard on the kidneys (again, whatever that means!) and I suppose if I were really curious I'd a) ask the vet for specifics, b) check the horse's actual kidney function and c) maybe give it a try, keeping a close eye on things and seeing what happens.
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment


          • #6
            The internal medicine gal taught us this in nutrition. It was a finals question, and I always thought it was odd. I understood it better reading as:
            Beet pulp may complicate kidney function in an already compromised horse.

            From the horse:
            ""If kidney function is reduced, renal and bladder stones of calcium oxalate are more likely to occur, as well as an increase (potentially lethal) in blood calcium. Horses with kidney failure should be put on a low calcium diet (less than 0.5-0.65%). Protein and phosphorus should also be restricted to less than 8-10% and 0.03%, respectively."

            Good quality grass hay and corn might meet most, or all, of the above requirements. Horses suffering kidney failure, however, should not be fed legumes like alfalfa, clover, or beet pulp because of their high calcium content. They also should not be fed wheat bran or excessive phosphorus (greater than 1.0%) or protein (16%). Liver failure generally results in loss of appetite and weight in older horses, but it also can cause lethargy, jaundice, and an intolerance of fat and protein in the diet. If severe, the horse might show behavioral changes, including irritability, aimless wandering or circling, or pressing its head against objects. Affected horses require increased sugar sources to maintain their blood glucose levels, and their diet should emphasize starch intake (grains or concentrates) and fiber (hay or beet pulp) to avoid gastrointestinal dysfunction. "

            That said, our oldest horse eats a LOT of beet pulp and his bloodwork is fine.

            Our kidney failure horse also eats beet pulp, and has eaten alfalfa in the past for specific reasons, and his bloodwork has been as expected. Every diet change I make with the kidney failure horse, I ok with a vet. He looks like a million dollars and surely isn't dead yet

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm not sure how this helps this thread...but when I got a kidney stone my doctor gave me a list of things to avoid eating. On that list was beets.
              Do we know enough about horses to say that beet pulp causes kidney stones??? You got me

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Thanks everyone.
                I have recommended she get a second opinion. It sounds like it was a knee-jerk type reaction to older horses and kidneys because the horse shows no signs of kidney or liver problems (unless diarrhea is one). It was interesting that you mentioned bran also, FP, because she also nixed that. It almost sounds like she is reading straight out of the book without evaluating the circumstances. She's new in the practice and maybe right out of school, I don't know.
                This is where vets and nutitition gets frustrating, they do seem under schooled in this aspect.
                One more thing, the horse is a manure-eater which I don't think she has mentioned to the vet yet. He gets probiotics regularly. And he dunks his hay all the time FWIW.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know of nothing in the nutrient profile in beet pulp that would be contraindicated in a geriatric horse.
                  I feed it to my elderly mare...
                  "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

                  ...just settin' on the Group W bench.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X