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Wormers--what else can we use?

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  • #21
    You absolutely have not answered me. I ask you honest questions in my original reply to you. You won't answer. That's fine. Have fun.
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


    • #22
      Originally posted by Hip View Post
      "Information does not equal knowledge" (I can't quote for some reason) Is that original?

      What a gem of a statement! I'm sure a few of my horsey friends will get a kick out it and I'll be sure to give credit where credit is due!

      I'll be sure to take note the next time I see someone has linked to an article on this board, or actually, any horse board, and just know that it's only information, not knowledge. We're not really learning anything because it's only information. On another post, someone mentioned a condition that killed a bunch of horses at Findley (sp?) and I looked it up to find out what it was. But since it was only information, I don't think I'm any better off now, it wasn't knowledge. *sigh* Thank you for enlightening me!

      Interesting, indeed.
      Guess you must live by the old saying 'I read it on the internet, it must be true'

      Seriously, you are being so defensive you can't possibly wrap your head around current information. It's really sad indeed that you refuse to learn anything. You seem to be the one wanting to argue, not JB.

      Hell, I've read wrong information on here. I've learned a lot by getting my head out of rear (and the past) and staying up to date on current information. Just because I read it on here doesn't mean I take it as gospel. Anything I read I try to check with my vets on. Tons of misinformation out there. Even by the vets. You do what you can to educate yourself, not rely on others.


      • #23
        Originally posted by Hip View Post
        Forgot to mention, I don't know the difference between snuff and 'baccy. Never used the stuff myself and thought they were the same. Just remember it being used out of a brown papered small brick. A piece was torn off and tossed into the oats/whatever they were feeding that year. Also, I knew a man who fed lemon jello with it to 'keep it in the stomach longer so it will work'. Only lemon jello, no peach or banana, he thought the horses liked lemon best. Can't wait for 'someone' to tear this apart also!

        Personally, I like chickens around the place. I probably forgot some minor point which I'm sure will be pointed out to me quickly.
        Tobacco then.

        The old man down the road (yes, even older than me) used to raise goats. Tobacco for worms, salt in the eye for pinkeye. No matter how I hounded him he was convinced that was all you needed. Oh... yeah, new goats got a pine branch with their tobacco.
        (like a power pak I think.)
        ANYHOW every year he would call me to come and "save" his goats who were dying of worms. Many times it would be too late but some were saved. I'd worm all his goats with actual wormer and they'd be fine..for a while.
        I know this is goats and not horses but expect the outcome will be the same for anyone who depends on tobacco to worm their animals. How foolish.
        You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.


        • #24
          Bumping this up because it came up in a Google search for me. I am in a FB group where a member has a horse with GI issues, and is expelling small strongles. Another member advised that she give him some Tobacco, and Chiro work. Really.
          The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!


          • #25
            No, the do not work for worms. If he's shedding adult strongyle worms, he needs to have a FEC done asap and use an appropriate chemical.
            The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


            • #26
              AAEP Parasite Control Guidelines


              Ideally, every place would have a whole farm plan.


              • #27
                Tobacco probably did work to some extent. It has been used forever on plants as an insecticide.

                The problem is that even if it works, giving a "plug of tobacco" does not regulate dosage. The amount of the critical ingredient, which I suppose is nicotine, would not be consistent and a plug is not a very scientific measure. The horse's weight is another factor in dosage.

                Insecticidal value with plants:

                Anthelmintic use on sheep:

                Anthelmintic use for cattle:
                The most interesting article is this, a study in Bangladesh done in vitro using plants and local substances, of course, as the last paragraph says, the toxic effects on actual cows need to be studied. So the tobacco might kill the worms and the cow too:


                The in vitro efficacy of different concentrations of water extracts of 20 plants against adult gastrointestinal nematodes are shown in the Table 3. Water extract of 20 indigenous plants showed potential in vitro activities against adult parasites. The efficacy of water extract of these plants at the concentrations of 25 mg/ml and 50 mg/ml was much lower than that of concentration of 100 mg/ml except tobacco plants. Tobacco plants (25 mg/ml and 50 mg/ml) showed 100% in vitro efficacy against gastrointestinal nematodes of cattle...

                ...It may be concluded that the medicinal plants and/or its extracts may be used against gastrointestinal nematodes of cattle in Bangladesh. The pharmacokinetics together with its toxic effects need further studies.
                "Random capitAlization really Makes my day." -- AndNirina


                • #28
                  ALL drugs are a double-edged sword--safety and efficacy have to be balanced along with side effects and measurable benefits.

                  I wholeheartedly applaud the move towards FEC-guided deworming and think it's about darn time. Perfect? No. Potential pitfalls? Yes. One-size-fits-all? No. Room for individual circumstances? Yes.

                  Thirty years ago what we did is barbaric by today's standards. Same with stuff we did 100 years ago when seen through the lens of 1970's best thinking. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that in 50 years we'll look back on 2013 and shake our heads at how little we know/knew. This is how science works. We do the best we can with what we know.
                  Click here before you buy.


                  • #29
                    "Tobacco has historically been used as an anthelmintic for livestock. While nicotine does have some anthelmintic properties, it is extremely toxic in the doses needed to kill worms."

                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET


                    • #30
                      To Hip

                      I really don't hate to say this.

                      But lately it seems there is "one" in every crowd (thread).

                      And here, and now, it appears to be you.

                      There is science, and there is what used to be done, because Grandpa did it.
                      Intelligent minds stick with science.
                      Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                      Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                      • #31
                        Just realized I was chastising someone long gone.
                        Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                        Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by SLW View Post
                          I may push my deworming back to every 10-11 weeks instead of every 8. If that works well for a year then I might try quarterly deworming. Not sure running a fecal on each horse each time is cost effective as each one cost $17.
                          I know this is an old thread, but...really? You were deworming every 8 weeks?!
                          "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


                          • #33
                            You were deworming every 8 weeks?!
                            I know you're young, but for a long time--about 15 years--this was the party line recommendation. Hardly shocking to hear that many people actually did it.
                            Click here before you buy.


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                              I know you're young, but for a long time--about 15 years--this was the party line recommendation. Hardly shocking to hear that many people actually did it.
                              Even when that was the "recommendation" I didn't do it that frequently! And yes, I may be young, but I had and cared for my own horses when that was indeed the recommendation.
                              "If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."


                              • #35
                                I did it for years and years, the first week of every odd-numbered month. Which is a little less than every 8 weeks, but that was the standard of care at the time.
                                Click here before you buy.