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5-day Panacur - necessary or relic of the past?

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    #21
    I am not at liberty to discuss all the details right now (research project in the works), but YES Powerpacks are essential and if you are not using them at least once a year there is a good chance you are going to be wishing you had. Wish I could say more but I can't.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

    Comment


      #22
      Quest

      Doesn't Quest do the same thing? What are the real dangers of using Quest, if any?
      Were the reported problems because people overdosed? or because those horses had a heavy worm load?
      Thanks.

      Comment


        #23
        Originally posted by Coyoteco View Post
        Doesn't Quest do the same thing? What are the real dangers of using Quest, if any?
        Were the reported problems because people overdosed? or because those horses had a heavy worm load?
        Thanks.
        I think both. The safety and effective parameters are within a narrow range and it works so well that a heavily infested horse's sytem can be overwhelmed in several ways, for what we were told.
        We use Quest in a rotation, without problems, in healthy horses, that are on a regular program, adequate for our semi-desert area conditions.

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          #24
          I'm sure someone can explain it better... but Quest has a smaller molecule that gets into blood streams and such- it does not just pass through and kill worms, it says in their systems longer and predisposes them to having problems. In other words, if teh horse has a reaction it's in their body for a while.

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            #25
            Seriously though, when are you supposed to use PP? Springtime right? after freezing temps are over or does it matter?

            Comment


              #26
              Moxidectin, the active ingredient in Quest, is absorbed into the horse's fat, so that some of the chemical acts immediately to kill worms, and some of it gets released slowly from the horse's fat cells over the next 80 day period. The fact that fat retains the moxidectin is one reason why Quest probably shouldn't be used with very underweight horses.

              In addition, moxidectin is a very powerful de-wormer and if used on a horse that has a high parasite load, the massive die-off of the parasites can cause a horse to colic (this can also be a problem with ivermectin as well).

              I think that moxidectin only gets encysted strongyles in one of their larval stages, whereas the powerpack kills them in two of their larval stages. Offsetting that advantage, however, is the fact that there is a greater risk of parasite resistance to fenbendazole.

              I've used Quest with my TB mare for several years with no problems.

              Oh, and usually I've seen the recommendation to do the Powerpack either in late fall or early spring, since late fall is when strongyles begin the encysting process in the horse's digestive system, and early spring is when the cysts begin to break open in the horse's system and cause the problems.
              "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

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                #27
                Originally posted by Waterwitch View Post
                I powerpak my broodies every year during the last 3 months of their pregnancy - no problems yet.


                One would hope you also deworm her promptly after foaling, and then deworm the foal at monthlyintervals ,until at least 1 year old.
                Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

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                  #28
                  Oh, come now

                  Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
                  I am not at liberty to discuss all the details right now (research project in the works), but YES Powerpacks are essential and if you are not using them at least once a year there is a good chance you are going to be wishing you had. Wish I could say more but I can't.
                  What does this mean?
                  Tinwhistle Farm

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by N&B&T View Post

                    What does this mean?
                    Exactly what I said what was not clear about it?
                    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                    ---
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Never mind ET.
                      Tinwhistle Farm

                      Comment


                        #31
                        So, does a fecal tell you conclusively whether a horse needs the power pack (or Quest) treatment?
                        Thanks.

                        Comment


                          #32
                          Originally posted by Coyoteco View Post

                          So, does a fecal tell you conclusively whether a horse needs the power pack (or Quest) treatment?
                          Thanks.
                          No, because the intestinal tract is not the only place horses harbor parasites.
                          "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                          ---
                          The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                            One would hope you also deworm her promptly after foaling, and then deworm the foal at monthlyintervals ,until at least 1 year old.
                            I was only responding to the question of whether or not it is safe to powerpac pregnant broodmares (in my experience - yes), not describing my entire yearly deworming schedule

                            I do deworm my broodmares with ivermectin within 12 hours of foaling. I begin deworming my foals at 8-10 weeks as there is evidence that some exposure to ascarids is necessary for immunity to occur. From then on I deworm monthly. I also powerpac my foals after we get a good freeze in the fall.
                            Last edited by Waterwitch; Feb. 4, 2007, 04:10 PM. Reason: spelling

                            Comment


                              #34
                              I honestly cannot believe how much I dont know about worming!
                              Can any one point me to a resource which could educate me on the different types of worming and what they do?

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Originally posted by dauntless View Post
                                I honestly cannot believe how much I dont know about worming!
                                Can any one point me to a resource which could educate me on the different types of worming and what they do?
                                Try here, type "anthelmintics" in the search window:

                                http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Whoa! that Merck thing is overwhelming.

                                  I am looking for a de-worming rotation "wheel" (what to give each month or bi-monthly). I had a great one when I lived in Ky, but it got lost in the move to NC and I am winging it from memory. I want my memory jogger in front of me again.

                                  Where do I find one of those nice little rotation wheels?

                                  And what is considered "early spring"? My next worming is scheduled for March 15th. I guess that slounds like a good time for a 5 day powerpak for everyone, eh? Does it matter what I wormed with last time?

                                  PS: How do you experienced people handle a horse who spits out a big glob before you can get his mouth closed? Do you (a) forget it? (b) scrape it up off the shavings/your jacket/ the water bucket and try to stick it back in the horse's mouth? (c) keep an extra tube of de-wormer on hand and try to guesstimate how much got spit out and replace that amount from the new tube?

                                  These are the really important questions in life and no one tells you the answers...
                                  "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Lord Helpus View Post

                                    PS: How do you experienced people handle a horse who spits out a big glob before you can get his mouth closed? Do you (a) forget it? (b) scrape it up off the shavings/your jacket/ the water bucket and try to stick it back in the horse's mouth? (c) keep an extra tube of de-wormer on hand and try to guesstimate how much got spit out and replace that amount from the new tube?

                                    These are the really important questions in life and no one tells you the answers...
                                    The Panacur Powerpaks are apple/cinnamon flavored, so the horses find them much more palatable (thank goodness, since you have to give so much!).

                                    They make an ivermectin product that is top dressed now. I think (?) it's called EasyCare. It works and tastes good, so horses eat it.

                                    And remember, make certain no food in mouth, raise head before administering, place hand under jaw to prevent head lowering, hold head up and massage the underside of the jaw until swallowed. Pray. Now that I think about it, isn't it sort of dangerous to hold their head up when you do this? What if it goes down the wrong pipe? Granted, I've been doing this for 20 years without a problem, but now that I'm thinking about it????? DUH.
                                    <><

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      What are the real dangers of using Quest, if any?
                                      It will kill your beautiful, bright young horse far, far too young.

                                      Neurological symptoms, convulsions, and others... including stroke.

                                      At it was NOT an overdose. Nor a horse with a heavy worm load. What he may have had was an oral ulcer. Fort Dodge was less than helpful and completely dismissive. I could not do a necropsy at the time, but my vet has since seen several other BAD reactions and as said above, cannot recommend it.

                                      And this was ME, and MY beautiful young boy. Not a friend of a friend or a sister of a cousin's barn owner... ME.
                                      InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                                      Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Originally posted by Calena View Post
                                        The Panacur Powerpaks are apple/cinnamon flavored, so the horses find them much more palatable (thank goodness, since you have to give so much!).

                                        They make an ivermectin product that is top dressed now. I think (?) it's called EasyCare. It works and tastes good, so horses eat it.

                                        And remember, make certain no food in mouth, raise head before administering, place hand under jaw to prevent head lowering, hold head up and massage the underside of the jaw until swallowed. Pray. Now that I think about it, isn't it sort of dangerous to hold their head up when you do this? What if it goes down the wrong pipe? Granted, I've been doing this for 20 years without a problem, but now that I'm thinking about it????? DUH.
                                        I think that is what you have to do with many though or it will come right back out. Our BM closes their nostrils if they are bad spitters. She says that makes them swallow.

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Safeguard the over the counter form of Fenbendezole made by the same company as Panacur, comes in a liquid form. It is MUCH easier to dose and less expensive. You use a dosing syringe and put it in the back of their throat with the head tipped up. It is not thick and goupy so they cannot really spit it out.
                                          www.vandenbrink.ca

                                          https://www.facebook.com/VandenbrinkWarmbloods?fref=ts

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