Sport Horse Spotlight

Sir Donnerhall_02Beelitz

Real Estate Spotlight

Driveway

Sale Spotlight

COTH_without Subscribe
  • Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You�re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it�details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums� policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it�s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users� profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses � Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it�s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who�s selling it, it doesn�t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions � Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services � Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products � While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements � Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be �bumped� excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues � Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators� discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you�d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user�s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Question on Hoof Balance - soreness & soundness

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by irishcas View Post
    ... Otherwise to keep arguments down I'm talking about just posting to answer questions not attack each other...
    I think this is good advice for all of us. Let's keep to the topic at hand rather than attack each other.
    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pawsplus View Post
      Well, I trim my own horses' feet. And many more people are doing it all the time. I no longer pay anyone to trim them, but do them myself weekly. Either owners need to learn to do it themselves (and contrary to popular belief, it is NOT rocket science!) or they need to pay the trimmer to come more often. The answer should not be to take off too much all in one fell swoop.
      Then it should be convenient for you to be able to trim a little more frequently to maintain hooves.

      I will clue you in on something. The horses would much rather their feet get a trim they can live with and don't care how much excess is removed at once or how little is done more frequently. It just wants them TRIMMED AND FEELING BETTER. One fell swoop DOES work and doesn't always mean blood will be shed. If the person doing the trimming doesn't know how far they can go, they are certainly better off taking smaller amounts more frequently. It wouldn't be a bad idea if they sat in on as many dissections as possible either so they would be more familiar with hoof anatomy. Nothing personal, just a concern if people think taking a lot is a bad thing.

      Tree

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
        (you post anonymously so you fail on the first test because I and others don't know who you are! And I don't post falsely)
        You claim not to know and yet my name has been revealed in this very thread. However, I see you have an "out" so this is what allows you to play the great and powerful Oz.

        Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
        you keep telling us you've loads of loyal customers that love you - so fails on 2nd test, no financial detriment! Your customers aren't here and if they were you've told us time and time again they love your god like qualities and ability to perform miracles
        I have stated that I have 80+ clients who appreciate my trimming skills. They might "love" me as well but I've never said so. God-like qualities? You sure do read much more into things than what's really there. God-like indeed.

        Tree

        Comment


        • Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
          In your example, if the owner can't pay for or commit to the frequent trimming necessary to correct "impacted bars", then how are they going to have the money or time for the vet bill if the horse develops an infection or serious complication from your procedure?
          No infections have resulted because of my procedure. So what is up with that? It probably has more to do with allowing hooves to function at their best.

          Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
          If a horse is sore enough following your trim, it could well suffer some sort of setback, such as colic or abscess/es that could end up costing the client a whole lot more money than frequently-scheduled trims.
          During the evaluation these things are discussed prior to the initial trim. If an owner has issues about any of these things, they can opt out.

          Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
          So, if your client's commitment isn't strong enough to support frequent trims to solve the problem without blood-letting, their commitment sure isn't strong enough for a severe trim that could result in complications.
          Well, perspective clients aren't always readable. There are some that are all for whatever it is that needs to be done and then flake out afterwards. And there are those who aren't sure but willing to give it a go and remain steadfast once they begin to see the positive changes taking place. And then there are those who know it will work and do whatever it takes to keep their trimmer happy. There are ways to avoid some complications like making sure a horse is physically ready to take on the healing process prior to the first trim.

          Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
          I know you've said that so far that hasn't happened (as far as you know), but if you continue on your current path, it will. I'm not saying this as a hoof expert, a title I can't lay claim to, but as a long-term horse owner and a person who works on a lay-up farm where I see the afteraffects of numerous painful injuries and know how expensive the after-care is.
          I am not sure how past experiences can't be reliable when it comes to infections not forming as a result of hitting some blood. It's pin pricks of blood, as a rule. Not wide open gashes exposing a lot of corium.

          As far as the living conditions and physical conditions of the horses I deal with and those you've seen at a lay-up facility, I won't assume all things are equal as this does play a part as to what can happen to the horses.

          Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
          One more point, since you can't believe that trimming the bars to the corium can be detrimental to the horse's health, if the horse suffers any sort of health problem following the trim, you are likely to be named as the cause. Once a vet sees those feet, they may not look much farther for something to blaim the problem on.
          Well, with as many pathological hooves that existed in the past and in the present, why should any hoofcare professional be blamed for a horse's health suddenly turning south at all? No one seems to realize how hoof pathology and unnatural horse keeping practices lend themselve to undermining the overal health of the horses as it is.

          Of the lawsuits I've heard about, it seems it had more to do with professionals making claims that didn't pan out. Nothing about a health problem being blamed on a trim or shoeing.

          Tree

          Comment


          • Tree
            I have found your posts very interesting concerning "impacted" bars. I imbarrasingly am not familiar with the term. Rather than sounding totally ignorant of the subject, I attempted to research the word. I find UC Davis, Texas A&M and Colorado State very reliable sources when researching various hoof ailments . Also, notable Equine DVM's in my bookmarks share their knowledge free of charge. The search options on these sites came up with nothing. I then Googled "impacted" bars where a number of hits referred "Psycho Mechanics" I knew this could not be it.
            Then I found one site, Strasser. The word was inferred but no scientific explanation was given, only the word. Would you mind explaining in detail exactly what "impacted" bars are? Feel free to use scientific nomenclature in reference to anatomical structures.

            Kindly
            Mark

            Comment


            • Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
              Tree
              Then I found one site, Strasser. The word was inferred but no scientific explanation was given, only the word. Would you mind explaining in detail exactly what "impacted" bars are? Feel free to use scientific nomenclature in reference to anatomical structures.

              Kindly
              Mark
              Hi Mark,

              Until Strasser I'd never heard of the term "impacted bar" either. Until dissecting hooves, I'd never seen any before.

              As far as explaining, it's been explained in posts made in this thread already. If you wouldn't mind looking for them, that would be a help. If after you find the info and have some questions, ask.

              Tree

              Comment


              • Tree
                Thanks for your reply. But, I have seen the references to impacted bars but no clear definition was given. Could you define EXACTLY what impacted bars are ?











                Kindly

                Comment


                • Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                  Tree
                  Thanks for your reply. But, I have seen the references to impacted bars but no clear definition was given. Could you define EXACTLY what impacted bars are ?

                  Kindly
                  Excess bar horn that has crowded the inner space of the hoof capsule.

                  Tree

                  Comment


                  • Not too scientific. While waiting for your reply I Googled Dr. Strasser (call me impatient). There is a wealth of information listed, overwhelmingly negative.You must understand that when unfamiliar terms are used (impacted bars), I research these terms, if they are not described to my satisfaction, I research the source from which they came. I would request that all horse folks do the same. Knowledge is a powerful weapon. It sometimes leads us to discover hype. I will not argue that the term "impacted bars" is misleading, it simply is. After discovering Dr. Strasser on Google, this term seems rather insignificant. Were you aware that Dr. Strasser has been convicted by British Courts after charges were filed by the International League for the PROTECTION of Horses? Were you aware that there are Class Action Lawsuits filed (this don't mean by one person) in multiple states in the US by private citizens and various animal welfare leagues? Do you realize that Strasser "trimmers" have also been convicted of crimes concerning horses? I believe that you must have a passion for horses else you would not be involved with them. If you would not mind a suggestion; Would it not be a smart thing to involve yourself with a reputable farrier school? When you complete the training you do not have to shoe, but you will have a basic and correct understanding of the digit and should be able to perform a sound trim. You may even be able to ride with a seasoned farrier a learn correct and proven methods. Personally I would not be involved with anything Strasser considering the multiple class action suits alone. Is this who you really want to be associated with? I think not. But if I am incorrect in my assumptions, I would recommend a hefty liability policy.
                    Kindly
                    P.S. You may also google: Dr. Strasser lawsuits to verify the info.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      Not too scientific.
                      You had said: "Feel free to use scientific nomenclature in reference to anatomical structures." And: "Could you define EXACTLY what impacted bars are ?"

                      Now then, if you required scientific evidence, then you should have not given me any option other than to provide you with scientific data about impacted bars. However, you didn't specify that it had to be scientific at all and left the door open to how "I" define EXACTLY what impacted bars are.

                      This is only your 4th post on COTH. Is it safe to assume that you came here with the sole purpose of joining in with the anti-Strasser folks?


                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      Were you aware that Dr. Strasser has been convicted by British Courts after charges were filed by the International League for the PROTECTION of Horses?
                      Dr. Strasser herself or a couple of her students? I am only aware of an SHP and a student being involved with court cases. Not Strasser herself. Yes, it is a good idea to check out what one reads on the net for accuracy if nothing else.

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      Were you aware that there are Class Action Lawsuits filed (this don't mean by one person) in multiple states in the US by private citizens and various animal welfare leagues?
                      Class Action Lawsuits against what?

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      Do you realize that Strasser "trimmers" have also been convicted of crimes concerning horses?
                      In the UK and the more recent was found guilty of cruelty and that was all. So how were you applying the term "crimes"?

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      I believe that you must have a passion for horses else you would not be involved with them. If you would not mind a suggestion; Would it not be a smart thing to involve yourself with a reputable farrier school?
                      Yes, horses have been a long time passion of mine and continue to be. 'Smart' as in going along with conventional wisdom and avoid all of the hassles associated with going against the estalished norm? No. I made the decision to look for something else and found it.

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      When you complete the training you do not have to shoe, but you will have a basic and correct understanding of the digit and should be able to perform a sound trim.
                      I preferred to focus on working with the bare hoof. Learning to shoe would have been a waste of my time and money. And 'correct' is a relative term. There is no one theory or standard taught pertaining to hoof form and function.

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      You may even be able to ride with a seasoned farrier a learn correct and proven methods.
                      I was able to do that anyway. However, 'correct' is still a relative term. However, seeing that my interest was in trimming vs shoeing, I could only learn about trimming from the Farriers I was around. I was instructed by the last Farrier we employed to care for our horses and ponies. I continue to see examples of their "pasture trim" today....when I am asked to see why these horses aren't moving well.

                      Originally posted by shilohqh View Post
                      Personally I would not be involved with anything Strasser considering the multiple class action suits alone. Is this who you really want to be associated with? I think not. But if I am incorrect in my assumptions, I would recommend a hefty liability policy.
                      Kindly
                      P.S. You may also google: Dr. Strasser lawsuits to verify the info.
                      What you do is your business. Yes, Strasser's methods are what I have chosen. I do not wish to become certified in her methods. I've just spent some time googling Dr. Strasser lawsuits and have found none referring to Dr. Hiltrud Strasser. What info had you found?

                      Tree
                      Last edited by Tree; Feb. 1, 2007, 01:01 AM.

                      Comment


                      • Tree, I wouldn't call the red in Scout's pictures "pinpricks" of blood. You kept cutting way past the pinpricks, when you could have cut less and gone back more frequently to help that horse.

                        I've got to stop reading this thread now that you have somehow garnered another believer. Enjoy "educating" people about healthy trimming. Just be sure to pay your insurance premium on time!
                        "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                        Comment


                        • Shilogh - It doesn't make any difference that Strasser methods are based on junk science nor that her practioners are being prosecuted for cruelty and abuse and she has been there as a witness to give evidence for them and their methods when they have lost their cases.

                          Its something I've frequently mentioned and be warned, what will happen now is that Tree will go into bullsh** overdrive and will query you till the cows come home about the validity of what you've found and for hard evidence regarding prosecutions etc.

                          I'd strongly recommend you might want to carefully consider if you want to indulge her with effort in replying as its been done before time and time again. And when the evidence and facts are provided she is just full of sh**. Heck she's even accused the British Democratic Legal system of being biassed, unfair and being specifically out to get strasserites! And according to her apparently the International League for Protection of Horses is similarly out to get them and she believes its a fanatical namby pamby organisation that in fact is cruel to horses!! The woman is a charleton and a fool! And even when you smack her between the eyes with facts and information the woman is blind!

                          And then she really shows her true colours and says things like this......
                          Originally posted by Tree
                          In the UK and the more recent was found guilty of cruelty and that was all.
                          For goodness sake cruelty is a serious offence to a horse and carries a high burden of legal proof. IMO carried out by those who aren't fit to be near a horse and those who condone cruelty by suggesting its something minor aren't fit to be near a horse let alone trimming horses.

                          But we've been here before and I know that Tree thinks nothing of a bit of cruelty and a bit of blood letting and hacking and butchering and laming and maiming.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                            For goodness sake cruelty is a serious offence to a horse and carries a high burden of legal proof. IMO carried out by those who aren't fit to be near a horse and those who condone cruelty by suggesting its something minor aren't fit to be near a horse let alone trimming horses.
                            I believe the British case being referred to here is that of Mary Jo Kowalski of Baylham in Suffolk.

                            I have a bit of personal knowledge on this case as the vet who dealt with the case of the pony in question (Brambles IIRC) is my vet, and my sister's boss.

                            My sister (an equine vet nurse) handled the pony when it came to their premises for evaluation before being sent to the ILPH centre where it was eventually put down.

                            In her opinion the most shocking thing about the case was the realisation that the pony must have been suffering for months. This was not a simple one-off mistake by someone who didn't know better - it was damage inflicted over a long period of time by someone who clearly had no idea what she was doing.

                            And who went to Ipswich Crown Court and testified that there was nothing wrong with the 'trim'? Dr. Hiltrud Strasser.

                            http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/....php?aid=94361

                            I can't even begin to describe how angry I am that such blatant and deliberate acts of cruelty are dismissed so readily by Dr. Strasser and her devotees.

                            Comment


                            • Thank you Thomas for your recommendation. I accept and appreciate your advice. With every ounce of sanity that is within me I can not with rational mind understand how" Strasserites " remain loyal.

                              "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King"

                              Kindly
                              Mark

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
                                Tree, I wouldn't call the red in Scout's pictures "pinpricks" of blood. You kept cutting way past the pinpricks, when you could have cut less and gone back more frequently to help that horse.

                                I've got to stop reading this thread now that you have somehow garnered another believer. Enjoy "educating" people about healthy trimming. Just be sure to pay your insurance premium on time!
                                The photos weren't taken at the moment the blood appeared. Viewers are able to call it anything they want. Horses don't allow you to continue to cut away at areas that are bleeding.

                                Tree

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by EasterEgg View Post
                                  I believe the British case being referred to here is that of Mary Jo Kowalski of Baylham in Suffolk.

                                  I have a bit of personal knowledge on this case as the vet who dealt with the case of the pony in question (Brambles IIRC) is my vet, and my sister's boss.

                                  My sister (an equine vet nurse) handled the pony when it came to their premises for evaluation before being sent to the ILPH centre where it was eventually put down.

                                  In her opinion the most shocking thing about the case was the realisation that the pony must have been suffering for months. This was not a simple one-off mistake by someone who didn't know better - it was damage inflicted over a long period of time by someone who clearly had no idea what she was doing.

                                  And who went to Ipswich Crown Court and testified that there was nothing wrong with the 'trim'? Dr. Hiltrud Strasser.

                                  http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/....php?aid=94361

                                  I can't even begin to describe how angry I am that such blatant and deliberate acts of cruelty are dismissed so readily by Dr. Strasser and her devotees.
                                  it was indeed a tragic case. Previously I've provided Tree details of other UK cases but it makes no difference whether its one, two, three or a hundred, she's right and the whole of the UK justice system and the rest of the sane horse world is wrong.

                                  As with any fanatical fundamentalist there is little point in appealing to rationale or logic - because there isn't any.

                                  The best we can hope for is ongoing success with prosecution and exposure of their practices to drive them out of business and education of those owners on the perimeters of the horse world who somehow fallen into the trap of thinking this might be an acceptable way to treat and manage a horse.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by Tree View Post
                                    The photos weren't taken at the moment the blood appeared. Viewers are able to call it anything they want. Horses don't allow you to continue to cut away at areas that are bleeding.
                                    Tree
                                    Well great.... you invade the horses foot and make it bleed and you rush for..... YOUR CAMERA!!!!! duhhh

                                    And what bullsh** Regrettably horses are too frequently their own worst enemies and that is how you get too many suffer in the hands of those who are ignorant or stupid or phsycopathically sadistic.

                                    I'm hoping for one with opinions and spirit and when you cut it and invade its sensitive tissue its got enough about it to be able to express itself to give you a hearty kick
                                    Last edited by Thomas_1; Feb. 1, 2007, 10:11 AM.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Two Simple
                                      Obviously that's not true Tree. You continually show hooves covered in blood. By your logic, it would have never been possible to make these horses bleed because they wouldn't stand for it. Horses are stoic creatures who will often endure a lot because their alpha leader is standing there telling them to. Horses have a shockingly strong sense of loyalty, heirarchy, and social network. You'd be AMAZED what a horse will do when its leader tells it to.
                                      Technically speaking, the photos are taken after all 4 hooves are trimmed so the pin pricks have had time to run together. And by MY logic, which seems to confuse you, once blood is hit in an area of the foot, the horses don't want you to continue to trim in the areas that are bleeding. Whatever you are basing this on has nothing to do with my trims but examples you've seen in person. So that is something completely different from what I'm talking about. It might help if you could begin to separate what you know from what I know.

                                      Originally posted by Two Simple
                                      Haven't you ever heard jumper riders talk about how crucial it is to never put their horse is a really bad spot, never crash him, etc.? Horses will often do what you ask, even if it hurts.
                                      Narrowing this down, jumpers are talented horses and it seems that the better horse/rider combos stayed out of each other's way as much as possible. The rider knows the order of the jumps and rides the horse based on knowing what their horse would need to get the job done well. Rider error does mess things up but even then, some horses manage to get the job done in spite of their rider.

                                      But back to hooves, let me know how much trimming your horse allows you to do in an area that is bleeding and get back with me. I've told you my experiences already. It wasn't a subject for debate, really.

                                      Tree

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Tree View Post
                                        Technically speaking, the photos are taken after all 4 hooves are trimmed so the pin pricks have had time to run together. And by MY logic, which seems to confuse you,
                                        Lets face it the only one who gets your logic is you and that is because THERE IS NO LOGIC.

                                        You waffle on and on and on about a load of absolute junk and now even want to indulge in the semantics of how bleeding occurs etc etc etc. You talk absolute crap all of the time. You haven't got the faintest idea what you are doing and yet you continue to do it. You deliberately over trim and cut into sensitive tissue and who cares how quickly you take your photos or precisely how you go about committing this atrocity.

                                        And no one needs to be standing over your shoulder to see its wrong and its cruel and its mistreating the horse.

                                        So just cut the crap.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Thomas_1 View Post
                                          So just cut the crap.
                                          Why don't you try following your own advice for a change?

                                          Tree

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X