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RAW VEGETABLE DIET FOR HORSES -- NEW update pg. 51

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  • RAW VEGETABLE DIET FOR HORSES -- NEW update pg. 51

    Go here to see photo record: http://www.thepenzancehorse.com/2009...ES/misty09.htm

    and then go to http://www.lavendersageequine.com
    to see more.

    Veterinary documented and approved.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

  • #2
    What is "Other"?
    Click here before you buy.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by deltawave View Post
      What is "Other"?
      Go to the site to see: http://www.lavendersageequine.com

      it's really not a laughing matter ... how many horses are suffering from all sorts of different maladies ... arthritis to founder to cushings to ir to ....... you name it. If this diet protocal can make changes for the POSITIVE for these horses then its not a laughing matter at all, Delta.
      --Gwen <><
      "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
      http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

      Comment


      • #4
        This is utterly fascinating. Look at how good that horse looks in so little time.

        Comment


        • #5
          The disease is no laughing matter, but the title of the thread struck me as odd and sort of silly. Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, for pity's sake. If by "Other" you mean to intimate that horses that are suffering from "all sorts of different maladies" are going to be cured with the latest miracle, well, I'll keep smiling.
          Click here before you buy.

          Comment


          • #6
            Interesting how those trees in the background take such a drastic change from winter-esque looking to green leafy-ness in just 3 weeks!
            http://www.facebook.com/InTheoryFarm

            Comment


            • #7
              I have always been committed to getting IR/Cushing’s horses on ‘some’ grass. That is what my website is all about. I have put a huge amount of effort into finding ways to lower the sugar content of my grass such that my horses can have as much as possible. Green grass is the perfect food for horses.

              I agree that many horses locked up in drylots on a hay only diet are missing out on anti-oxidants that found only in fresh green healthy grass and other fresh produce. Notice I say ‘healthy’ grass. Plants and animals share many of the mechanisms to combat free radicals and other cellular toxins. Plant physiologists are now finding that ‘stressed’ grass, such as what most people have in an overgrazed, nutrient deficient, or drought stressed pasture, is depleted of anti-oxidants. It’s used them up in its own defense. They are now trying to find ways to get plants to produce more SOD, the first line of defense to fight free radicals, as a way to allow plants to grow better under stressful conditions.

              Plant Physiol. 1993 December; 103(4): 1067–1073.

              Overexpression of Superoxide Dismutase Protects Plants from Oxidative Stress (Induction of Ascorbate Peroxidase in Superoxide Dismutase-Overexpressing Plants)
              http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=159091

              Green grass has all kinds of good stuff that we are only beginning to understand. In the link given, the horse is showing improvement even ‘before the herbs are started’. I contend that if people would learn how to healthy grass, instead of stressing it by overgrazing, starving it of nutrients, and letting the pH get out of control, our horses could derive the necessary anti-oxidants and vitamins from the grass instead of spending a fortune on supplements. If your grass is depleted of copper, zinc and manganese that is needs to make its own SOD, how can you expect it to have any left for your horse?
              Are you feeding your horse like a cow? www.safergrass.org

              Comment


              • #8
                And if they didn't let their horses get grossly obese in the first place, there wouldn't be the need for rescuing them.
                Click here before you buy.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lost me on the Lavender Sage site with the claim that the diet acts as a daily dewormer, eliminating the need for medications specifically targeted to parasites.

                  I can believe a little of anything regarding herbal and natural medicine. But when someone starts touting their products as a cure for "everything", that's when I tend to write the seller off as either dangerously ignorant or a fraud. I didn't click on the first site, but the Lavender Sage one seems sort of Kevin Trudeau-esque.

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by chaos theory View Post
                    Interesting how those trees in the background take such a drastic change from winter-esque looking to green leafy-ness in just 3 weeks!
                    All I can say is go read the website and see the video testimonies, read the vet reports yourself. You don't have to believe me. Makes no difference to me one way or the other.

                    http://www.lavendersageequine.com
                    --Gwen <><
                    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mara View Post
                      Lost me on the Lavender Sage site with the claim that the diet acts as a daily dewormer, eliminating the need for medications specifically targeted to parasites.

                      I can believe a little of anything regarding herbal and natural medicine. But when someone starts touting their products as a cure for "everything", that's when I tend to write the seller off as either dangerously ignorant or a fraud. I didn't click on the first site, but the Lavender Sage one seems sort of Kevin Trudeau-esque.
                      Just for clarification - perhaps you misunderstood my original post. I have yet to purchase anything from lavendersageequine.com ... I've only taken Misty OFF ALL GRAIN and started feeding her fresh veggies and fruit and allowing her to be on grass again. I've recommended fresh "salads" for horses for years and years but always believed they need the vitamins and other 'ahem - nutrients' from our processed horse feeds. When speaking with Lisa St. John she reminded me that all those "nutrients' in processed grains were artificial (chemically produced), the natural original source was 'processed' and that horse only really utilize 30-40% of the TDNs in the feeds.

                      Horses are herbivores. Whats the definition of "herbivore"? :

                      "A living thing that eats only plants. Cattle, sheep, and horses are herbivores." from American Heritage Dictionary.

                      so it only makes common sense that the horse would be most healthy eating the very food that he/she is created to eat!

                      Plants are forage ... the horses entire system is geared around grazing forage 18 out of 24 hrs.

                      But maybe, once again, you might go back and read through what Lisa St. John has to say and then think a bit more on it.

                      The HORSE is the final answer regardless of what anyone says.
                      --Gwen <><
                      "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                      http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Speakiing only for myself, the comments I've made ARE based on visiting the site and reading what's there. Weepy testimonials abound, hard facts are much harder to come by. I'd love to know what they mean by the breathless use of the word ENZYMES in particular--are there some special properties of enzymes in general that the rest of us don't know about? Which enzymes?

                        Ahh, too much fluff for me, not enough substance. Kind of like Wonder bread. Which of course is bad for you, but kind of yummy.
                        Click here before you buy.

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                          And if they didn't let their horses get grossly obese in the first place, there wouldn't be the need for rescuing them.
                          I have a client who has a perch/Tb X - that horse is just 4 years old and ideal weight should be probably in the realm of 1200 - 1300#. He gets 1 CUP of pelleted 'total' grain a day. Is in dry lot and has limited, SOAKED HAY. The horse is grossly obese - probably close to 1600#. So obese that I do fear for his life. He also foundered and now is fighting off allergies and abscesses.

                          What would suggest this woman do? 1 CUP of grain a day; maybe 15# of soaked hay and that's it. Should she stop feeding him altogether? Then he might lose weight ...

                          Perhaps someone has a better idea than to start him on nothing but veggies as an herbivore is created to eat?
                          --Gwen <><
                          "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                          http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                            Speakiing only for myself, the comments I've made ARE based on visiting the site and reading what's there. Weepy testimonials abound, hard facts are much harder to come by. I'd love to know what they mean by the breathless use of the word ENZYMES in particular--are there some special properties of enzymes in general that the rest of us don't know about? Which enzymes?

                            Ahh, too much fluff for me, not enough substance. Kind of like Wonder bread. Which of course is bad for you, but kind of yummy.
                            You're the scientist - perhaps you could give us the definition for enzymes and their purpose?

                            I'll quote the American Heritage Science Dictionary: "Any of numerous proteins produced in living cells that accelerate or catalyze the metabolic processes of an organism. Enzymes are usually very selective in the molecules that they act upon, called substrates, often reacting with only a single substrate. The substrate binds to the enzyme at a location called the active site just before the reaction catalyzed by the enzyme takes place. Enzymes can speed up chemical reactions by up to a millionfold, but only function within a narrow temperature and pH range, outside of which they can lose their structure and become denatured. Enzymes are involved in such processes as the breaking down of the large protein, starch, and fat molecules in food into smaller molecules during digestion, the joining together of nucleotides into strands of DNA, and the addition of a phosphate group to ADP to form ATP. The names of enzymes usually end in the suffix -ase. "

                            Can you simplify that definition for us?
                            --Gwen <><
                            "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                            http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You are interested in a simplified definition?

                              OK, an enzyme is a chemical that makes other chemical reactions happen.

                              What I was wondering is why there seem to be magical properties being attributed to undefined enzymes in the special diet this website is touting. Virtually 100% of the enzymes our bodies need are made by the body itself, not ingested. I'll go along with Katy's explanation that a properly-nourished body is more than capable of making its own enzymes, whatever ones it needs. There is nothing special or therapeutic about them--they are just what the body needs to function, and given half a chance the body will make what it needs.

                              If a proper, healthy diet is helping an animal, then that's a success. I fail to see, however, where the horses in the videos (fat as hogs, kept on dry lots, being fed bowls of vegetables) are in need of anything beyond proper horse husbandry. The one with the "fused knees" obviously needed a more observant owner or vet, since the knees, although stiff, were clearly moving even though the poor animal was obviously in the throes of acute laminitis. Which, marvel of marvels, sometimes GETS BETTER, with or without someone "healing" the critter.

                              There are obviously enough people out there that are gaga about a pitch like this to make it worthwhile, but why not just make it a straight up plea for feeding and managing horses properly? Perhaps that doesn't sell as well?
                              Click here before you buy.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                Originally posted by deltawave View Post

                                There are obviously enough people out there that are gaga about a pitch like this to make it worthwhile, but why not just make it a straight up plea for feeding and managing horses properly? Perhaps that doesn't sell as well?
                                Or, perhaps there's no money for feed manufacturers and supplements companies to make if people start feeding their horses vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds?

                                I've done the management thing 'right' by 'the books' and the 'experts'. I've dry lotted and have warned against the fructans and sugars. I've turned out 24/7 with free choice shelter. I allow herd living. I've fed, what I believed, to be the best feeds according to each individual horse's needs as recommended per vet and nutrionists recommendations. I fed organic vitamins; supplied Himalayan or Celtic salts, added Flax and Black Oil Sunflower seeds for the more 'natural Omegas". Done the Thyrol L,the Chaste Tree Berry (which reaped small improvements) I feed local, free choice hay when its available otherwise purchase from dealers who get hay from northern NY or mid-west. I inspect the hay - green, leafy, clean, free of dust or mold ... I've been EXTREMELY vigilant and picky and thought I was doing a fair job of 'managing' the different horses' metabolic needs. I've also added in "horse salads" as anyone who has known me over the years will attest.

                                I posted this post because the most dramatic and effectual results I've EVER seen was when I took away all grain from Misty (she's my 'guinea pig' for this), fed her nothing but the veggies and allowed her to eat grass again, have NOT started her on the herbs from lavendersageequine.com yet (but will when they arrive as I believe in herbals as healing foods)

                                I've watched her over the course of the last few weeks and I've seen the changes in her body - I'm watching her spirit come back and her health return. In a very short period of time.

                                I now believe that I've been starving my horses of the essential nutrients and enzymes they need in order to be healthy and to cure themselves. I've been feeding them very expensive "TV Dinners" ...

                                I've been at this horse thing for almost 1/2 a century - it's only in the last 1/2 decade or so, with all this grass this, sugar that, specialized feeds that I've struggled so with the health of horses and watched so many others do the same. The incidences of Laminitis, Cushings, IR and all these 'diseases' that seem to be rampant seem to be getting WORSE instead of better as 'better' feeds, 'better supplements', 'better medicines' etc. etc. come on the market. All of this IS NOT WORKING!!!! Horses are getting more and more sick, younger and younger and are not being 'cured'.

                                When something doesn't work then something needs to be changed.

                                Misty will be the definitive answer for me ... she's either going to continue to improve and heal as she's presently doing or not. I've exhausted all the other answers for her.
                                --Gwen <><
                                "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                                http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                  And if they didn't let their horses get grossly obese in the first place, there wouldn't be the need for rescuing them.
                                  I have a client with a Haflinger mare who is on a diet of soaked local hay with supplements - she gains weight when her exercise routine stops.

                                  And natural, as nature intended, is usually best. Another client's TB bloomed and gained weight when she finally pulled his grain and fed grass hay along with pasture grass and a low carb supplement only.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Caballus,

                                    How much is "a little" grass that you allow Misty? Have you ever tested your pasture grass? Also, did you document her insulin/glucose levels before and after the diet change?

                                    Looks like what you're doing is sure making a big difference for your girl.
                                    Equus Keepus Brokus

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Gwen, do you have your hay analyzed? IME leafy, green, and lovely does not mean the hay is "good". And assuming Misty is the one getting all the expensive supplements (what is a Celtic salt?) why was she getting any grain at all if she is IR? If all of these remedies work, why are you still struggling with your horse? I'm NOT SHOOTING CRITICISM here. Just pointing out that even people that really embrace the non-processed, commercial feeds and supplements seem to really struggle with horses that are obese and prone to problems. I'm wondering, then, if what we rely on for most of our horses' intake (THE FORAGE) is being looked at critically. What's in your hay? What's in your grass? How often do you have it analyzed?

                                      Adding a few teaspoons of this or that cannot possibly overcome a problem with 20 pounds of bad forage.
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                                        Gwen, do you have your hay analyzed? IME leafy, green, and lovely does not mean the hay is "good". And assuming Misty is the one getting all the expensive supplements (what is a Celtic salt?) why was she getting any grain at all if she is IR?
                                        The fructans grow in the stems of the grasses. Good hay has always been noted for green, leafy, sweet smelling etc. etc. The 'grain' she was getting was forage extender pellets (to add more 'forage' to her diet and Poulin Revolution which is 'manufactured' for Cushings & IR horses. Celtic Salt? - unprocessed whole salt from one of the most pristine coastal regions of France. It has a composition of minerals that is naturally balanced and also has an "energy" that is very 'harmonious to the body'.

                                        No, I don't have my hay analyzed because I go through a ton a week and by the time I've had it tested and test results come back I'd be on a totally different batch.

                                        Right now, with the vegetables, Misty is eating a Timothy/Grass/Alfalfa hay from Northern New York. Last year's 2nd cut. Alot of leaves and chaff. Little amt. of flower heads.
                                        --Gwen <><
                                        "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
                                        http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

                                        Comment

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