Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

<GHAAAA-ZZU> I'm hearing questions about digestability of Oils??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by Lookout View Post
    What happens if he gets added fat?
    EqTrainer gave a good example of what can happen if "that" horse gets fat.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lookout
    replied
    Originally posted by JB View Post
    LOL! Fat is fine and good for the healthy horse, fine and good for the EPSM horse, maybe not fine or good for the IR or otherwise metabolic horse. I have a friend who has 2 IR horses - one can have added fat in the form of BOSS, one cannot have any added fat at all, so lives on the fat available in forage.
    What happens if he gets added fat?

    Leave a comment:


  • EqTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
    OK, let me rephrase.
    It looks to me like you are saying biliary disease is the cause of IR.

    I don't think that is so in the majority of cases.

    It may well be associated with biliary disease, but that's not the same thing.
    I agree!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghazzu
    replied
    Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
    Unfortunately we have seen that, too
    OK, let me rephrase.
    It looks to me like you are saying biliary disease is the cause of IR.

    I don't think that is so in the majority of cases.

    It may well be associated with biliary disease, but that's not the same thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • EqTrainer
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
    A horse withsignificant biliary problems is going to show signs of liver disease. I'd expect it to be a lot worse off than simply IR.
    Unfortunately we have seen that, too

    Leave a comment:


  • meredithbarlow
    replied
    Originally posted by deltawave View Post
    I do agree that the "low carb" thing is strangely faddish and suspiciously linked temporally to the whole human "South Beach" thing. Not saying it isn't beneficial for some, but it is all
    Well all horse diets are low carb compared to human diets! LOL, I was talking about how my pony can't have grass because of all the "sugars" in it. My friend *non-horsey friend* was like, what!? grass has sugar in it???

    Leave a comment:


  • Ghazzu
    replied
    Originally posted by EqTrainer View Post
    Ok... let's see.

    Fat (specifically oil) and horses that are IR. If the reason for the horses IR condition is that the bile ducts of the liver are compromised.
    A horse withsignificant biliary problems is going to show signs of liver disease. I'd expect it to be a lot worse off than simply IR.

    Leave a comment:


  • EqTrainer
    replied
    Ok... let's see.

    Fat (specifically oil) and horses that are IR. If the reason for the horses IR condition is that the bile ducts of the liver are compromised, then YES, oil is a major no-no for that horse. The IR horses who are skinny *seem* to be the ones who have liver issues. Of course no one has done a study on this so take it for what it's worth. The real question that should be studied is WHY are their bile ducts compromised. My opinion? Liver flukes. Deworm, my friends. DEWORM! We are seeing amazing results in IR horses that are Powerpacked and then given a double Anthelcide to catch anything resistant.

    Back in the day, we fed oil to every skinny horse that came thru our hands. Today I feed no oil at all, and would be extremely reluctant to ever do so again. I feel that flax and BOSS are superior sources of fat, and that horses that appear to need more fat usually really need either to be dewormed more effectively, need more/better quality forage or simply more calories in concentrates.

    Basically - overall - I am finding that horses do not need very much fat in their diets. A completely different view than I had ten years ago.

    Leave a comment:


  • JSwan
    replied
    Ahhh - methinks someone likes biblical epics from the 50's.......

    Originally posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    the Great Ghazzu has spoken...so let it be written....so let it be done



    Tamara in TN
    getting all the fat I need gall bladder or no

    Leave a comment:


  • LMH
    replied
    According to Merriam-Webster online a nutrient is something that furnishes nourishment.

    Nourishment is:

    1 a : material consisting essentially of protein, carbohydrate, and fat used in the body of an organism to sustain growth, repair, and vital processes and to furnish energy; also : such food together with supplementary substances (as minerals, vitamins, and condiments) b : inorganic substances absorbed by plants in gaseous form or in water solution
    2 : nutriment in solid form
    3 : something that nourishes, sustains, or supplies <food for thought>

    Leave a comment:


  • eqsiu
    replied
    Originally posted by Lookout View Post
    But there are no nutrients in oil.
    Fat is an essential nutrient. It's all nutrient.

    Leave a comment:


  • JB
    replied
    Originally posted by walkinthewalk View Post
    That being said, I am coming to the fat oil conclusion of "yes, I guess not"
    LOL! Fat is fine and good for the healthy horse, fine and good for the EPSM horse, maybe not fine or good for the IR or otherwise metabolic horse. I have a friend who has 2 IR horses - one can have added fat in the form of BOSS, one cannot have any added fat at all, so lives on the fat available in forage.

    My horse does not have Cushings and his thyroid is normal. I am still waiting on the IR test and the cortisol test.

    He lost nearly 100 pounds in 8 weeks or less. Much needed, but he wasn't on a diet, which is why I got all these tests done on the cresty-necked 21 yo gelding.
    Sounds IR at least, with possible Cushing's as a complication. Or would that be the other way around...


    I have changed his diet to a dry grain that has about 25% starch in it, and "molasses trace". I have added 1/4 cup of 100% corn oil 2X/day.

    So am i pushing the brake and the gas pedal at the same time??
    Since IR is a likely possibility, and until you know otherwise, I'd reduce his carbs and remove the oil for now. Get him stabilized - no more weight loss, cresty neck reduced, etc. THEN start adding things, very slowly and one at a time, and see what, if anything, causes problems. You may find that once he's stabilized, he can do BOSS. I personally probably would not do oil for a metabolic horse.

    Leave a comment:


  • equinelaw
    replied
    I may be dating myself, but I do remember the days when the common knowledge was that since horses do not have gall bladders they cannot eat fat. It, of course, turned out to be untrue, but it was the rock solid advice of most "horsemen" up unitl the late 70's.
    I am suprised you found someone who still says that in the light of clear evidence to the contrary, but some people learned all they needed in their youth and missed all the new and exciting stuff that's revolutionizing the horse world every year:>
    Most of the "common wisdom" has turned out to be not really true, but its takes many years before it completely dies out and not many people read research papers. Perhaps it was the influnece of so many women who spend all their time observing their horses on the field of study, but there is no denying some fat seems to be a very good thing. We feed it, we see great results, then research shows us why.
    An influx of women researchers and Vets seems to has helped too, but maybe the changes that allowed women to go into those fields alos made us question 2,000 year old "wisdom"?

    Leave a comment:


  • walkinthewalk
    replied
    I joined this board mainly for conversations like this

    That being said, I am coming to the fat oil conclusion of "yes, I guess not"

    My horse does not have Cushings and his thyroid is normal. I am still waiting on the IR test and the cortisol test.

    He lost nearly 100 pounds in 8 weeks or less. Much needed, but he wasn't on a diet, which is why I got all these tests done on the cresty-necked 21 yo gelding.

    I have changed his diet to a dry grain that has about 25% starch in it, and "molasses trace". I have added 1/4 cup of 100% corn oil 2X/day.

    So am i pushing the brake and the gas pedal at the same time??

    I have two other horses on BOSS for their hooves and can easily switch this horse if BOSS provides healthier fat than corn oil.

    I am NEW to the world of Cushings and thought I was starting to understand Cushings and pre-Cushings a little bit, but the more I read, the more confused I get.

    I know I'm a little off the OP's thread title, but the thread has evolved slightly in the Cushings direction

    Leave a comment:


  • Tamara in TN
    replied
    Originally posted by Ghazzu View Post
    Well, they don't have gall bladders, but they do produce bile.
    They just can't store it.
    No crow for you, dear.
    the Great Ghazzu has spoken...so let it be written....so let it be done



    Tamara in TN
    getting all the fat I need gall bladder or no

    Leave a comment:


  • JSwan
    replied
    I agree with JB -

    I've seen people overdo the whole "EPSM" thing and give a horse a handful of alfalfa pellets and drown it in corn oil and then complain the horse doesn't eat it, or it makes him sick, the diet doesn't work, it's bogus....

    You can overdo a good thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcella
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumphigh83 View Post
    I have fed up to two CUPS A FEED for the polysaccharide storage myopathy horses and no one kicked the bucket yet. Worst case they might get loose stools.
    My jug of rice bran oil says feed up to 8 oz a day for significant weight gain. If you feed more, it says you just might get some loose stools.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dazednconfused
    replied
    Originally posted by Oldenburg Mom View Post
    HUH?

    I heard a remark today that because horses don't have gall bladders they can't process oils efficiently.
    My response to this would be...if they cannot process oils efficiently, then why do they put on weight and get great coats/hair/hooves when fed an appropriate amount of oil?

    That would be proof enough for most people that it is being digested or "processed" efficiently enough to manifest itself on the outside of the horse, no?

    Leave a comment:


  • Oldenburg Mom
    replied
    Originally posted by Evalee Hunter View Post
    What do you put the cocsoya oil on? You feed it 4 times a day? 1/4 cup is 2 fl. ounces because 1 cup is 8 fluid ounces, so you would have to feed 4 quarter cups per day to equal 8 ounces.
    OH DUH! What was I thinking??????

    You're right. 1/2 cup per feeding. *sigh* What do you expect? I'm going to be 57 in a a week or so. *bigger SIGH*

    Leave a comment:


  • Jumphigh83
    replied
    I have fed up to two CUPS A FEED for the polysaccharide storage myopathy horses and no one kicked the bucket yet. Worst case they might get loose stools.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X