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No Mare Menopause

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  • No Mare Menopause

    I trimmed a client's 32 year old Cushings (not on Pergolide) mare on Monday who was in raging heat.......squirting , nickering, flirting, the works. All the other geldings thought she was a hot momma and they were all younger than her too....and not only that, she has a droopy lower lip, tongue hangs out a bit, loose teeth and is half blind - you go girl

    So apprently mares do not stop cycling like humans do, which is rather interesting, although their fertility may be affected in later years too.

    Have there ever been any studies done on this?

  • #2
    Yes it has been shown that mares do not stop cycling ever. Their fertility level and ability to carry a foal to term definitely declines but they keep ovulating.
    McDowell Racing Stables

    Home Away From Home

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
      So apprently mares do not stop cycling like humans do, which is rather interesting, although their fertility may be affected in later years too.
      Cushings messes up a horse's hormones. I wouldn't draw any conclusions based on a horse afflicted with it.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I already considered that too, yet it seems mares without Cushings will also cycle still.

        Comment


        • #5
          My 32-year old, without anything messing up her hormones, cycles.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think only humans and elephants have been shown to actually go through menopause. Other mammals appear (in a natural setting, not captivity) to die when their reproductive usefulness is done, making room for the next generation and all. Humans and elephants have (apparently) a definite need for older, non-reproducing females in their societies, and it is therefore postulated that menopause serves a biological role in freeing up older females to participate in things other than reproduction. (child-rearing, teaching, passing on customs and language, etc.)

            I think one thought is that the more complex the society and the more long-lived the species is, the more need there is for members of that society to do things OTHER than make babies.

            As to how well this is studied, I'm not sure, but there are a few books I've read on the topic that all seem to share this theory.
            Click here before you buy.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
              So apprently mares do not stop cycling like humans do, which is rather interesting, although their fertility may be affected in later years too.

              Have there ever been any studies done on this?
              Studies comparing humans to equines? The human form is not the basis for the rest of the animal world's composition.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by chaltagor View Post
                Studies comparing humans to equines? The human form is not the basis for the rest of the animal world's composition.
                This.

                That, and horses nor other animals cannot go through "menopause" in that they never go through menstruation to begin with. Ovulatory cycles occur in all species. Humans are completely different in terms of their reproductive physiology with respect to the rest of the animal kingdom. That's like comparing apples and oranges.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by chaltagor View Post
                  Studies comparing humans to equines? The human form is not the basis for the rest of the animal world's composition.
                  No, studies on female equines and their fertility. Beware of assumptions

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
                    No, studies on female equines and their fertility. Beware of assumptions
                    Your statement was comparing horses continuous cycling to that of humans not cycling. It's really unclear from what you first stated that you weren't looking to compare the two.

                    From reading the first post, your observation was regarding horses continuous ovulatory cycle (lack of "menopause"), not fertility. I think everyone pretty much assumed the same thing. If you don't want us to assume, be more clear, not "have their been any studies on this" (with "this" possibly referring to anything in the previous statement).

                    And to answer your question, plenty of studies and investigations have been done to document decreasing fertility as mares age. This is not due to changes in cyclicity or ovulation, but due to degeneration of the uterus. A basic search of the literature or even equine reproductive textbooks would elaborate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey, don't discourage BTR from asking for scientific evidence! It's a huge improvement!
                      Click here before you buy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by deltawave View Post
                        Hey, don't discourage BTR from asking for scientific evidence! It's a huge improvement!
                        LOL! Okay, Okay, you got me there...progress is progress

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pancakes View Post
                          LOL! Okay, Okay, you got me there...progress is progress
                          lol-- yeah she might actual get the horsey thing--- as in four legs a head and a tail
                          not two feet two arms and just a head as facts

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
                            So apprently mares do not stop cycling like humans do, which is rather interesting, although their fertility may be affected in later years too.

                            Have there ever been any studies done on this?
                            I will quote this again, as you don't seem to be getting it. Human menopause is an anomaly in the mammal world. You seem to be surprised that a mare is not like a woman, which is odd. Where were you educated?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              There was a reptile store outside of Santa Cruz that I used to go to that had a tank with two geriatric corn snakes in it behind the counter. They were a male/female pair and mated several times a day but never had a clutch. (Snakes twine all around each other when they mate; it's a beautiful mesmerizing dance.) The owner of the store said she liked to keep them around as they were inspiring and heartening.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                http://discovermagazine.com/1996/jul/whywomenchange817
                                Click here before you buy.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  There was story once about forum members who derail threads really for no good reason other than to look superior and have yet another bashing party ..............

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
                                    There was story once about forum members who derail threads really for no good reason other than to look superior and have yet another bashing party ..............
                                    I gave you answer and helped clarify some things that seemed to be unclear. Hopefully this helped?

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Oh yeah, there's NONE of that going on on threads when people ask about specific health topics and get random, boilerplate advice to pull the shoes and remove soy from the diet? You have amazingly thick skin normally. What gives?

                                      I provided a nice, meaty (if not strictly scientific) article on the topic. It does come from the human vantage point, but I enjoyed reading it. (but I was mistaken about the elephants--it's whales that share the menopause phenomenon, sorry) The first 90% of the OP (including the title) speculated about horses cycling throughout their lives, as opposed to going through menopause. You'll have to forgive everyone here for making the assumption that this was the topic you were interested in learning more about. So now your feathers are ruffled because people on COTH are sarcastic and you really meant to ask about fertility in elderly animals with that huge preamble about menopause? I know your skin is thicker than that. The information is out there--have a bit of learning.

                                      http://www.pnas.org/content/95/3/1336.abstract
                                      http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=259141
                                      http://www.springerlink.com/content/j41t6g4450hwu3xr/
                                      http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...03146/abstract
                                      Click here before you buy.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by goeslikestink View Post
                                        lol-- yeah she might actual get the horsey thing--- as in four legs a head and a tail
                                        not two feet two arms and just a head as facts
                                        That was just rude and uncalled for.

                                        You all may not like BTR (ever, for some of you) for some of the things she has said in other threads, but *leave those threads* out of this one which is apparently heading in a good, interesting direction.

                                        I don't like some of you (in general), don't like a lot of thing some of you have said in past threads, but I try not to drag those issues over every single thread you post on. Give the same courtesy.

                                        Originally posted by chaltagor View Post
                                        I will quote this again, as you don't seem to be getting it. Human menopause is an anomaly in the mammal world. You seem to be surprised that a mare is not like a woman, which is odd. Where were you educated?
                                        Again, was this rudeness really necessary? She said "women go through menopause, horse's apparently don't, have there been studies on this?" I've been around horses for 34 years. I bet I NEVER knew that mares didn't stop cycling until about 10 years ago. Were YOU born knowing that?
                                        ______________________________
                                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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