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My 2 YO colt is not quite right, not lame but not even ... Any ideas ?

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  • My 2 YO colt is not quite right, not lame but not even ... Any ideas ?

    I have a very well bred 2 YO colt WB that is not quite right.

    I was playing with him on groung work and realized that his gaits are not pure. He is not lame, but uneven.
    I asked my vet and she said that he had a rotated pelvis.
    I had him seen by a vet and he showed signs of neuro deficit on a couple of tests.

    He was a very fancy colt and did really well at his keurings (top 3 in the US).

    So here are a couple of more info :
    He is really, really, really laid back. It makes everything harder to diagnosed because I don't really know if he trips or looks sluggish because he is so lazy or if he is really showing signs of uncoordination. We are talking about a horse who lies down between 2 to 5 hours a day !!!!

    He is a little uneven in the back end at a trot on a circle

    He swaps leads a lot at the canter (he can do 10 o 12 clean tempis in a row all by himself in a pasture).
    He is still butt high (big time) 2 to 3 inches difference between in front and butt.

    He is on low starch diet (triple crown lite, T/A hay and florida poor grass).

    He travels very wide behind all the time.

    He has no issues to bend his neck, or to walk with his head up in the air.

    He doesn't show any signs of being sore or stiff anywhere (he doesn't respond to any kind of poking anywhere on his body). If something, he is too rubbery. It seems, feels and looks like a big piece of rubber.

    He has been tested for EPM (blood test sent to University of Davis) and it came back with a 30% positive which has been ruled out by my vet as being conclusive).

    His flexion test are fine, he is sound all the way around.

    My vet is now talking about wobblers, but it is so much money to test for it that I was just wondering if it could be something else ?

    Any idea ?

  • #2
    Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
    I asked my vet and she said that he had a rotated pelvis.
    Why not have a chiro out to fix that?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

    Comment


    • #3
      Growing baby horse. Tendons, muscles and ligaments having to stretch and catch up to the bone growth, being that butt high he is probably having issues with the canter especially, even if he is just out cantering by himself (I'm guessing he has not been backed and no one is riding him). They can have growth spurts even on a proper diet, with enough protein to support the growth of everything not just bone. Ever watch a 16 year old boy go through a growth spurt? One minute they are co-ordinated and the next minute they can barely walk a straight line. Until everything catches up. Nothing is symmetrical either, along with growth patterns, things will catch up with tincture of time.

      I would have the chiro out to do adjustments. I've had my 5 year old adjusted since he was 2 or 3 and continue to because he is still growing. Just to keep all the parts lined up as best as possible while they adjust to a new size.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
        He doesn't show any signs of being sore or stiff anywhere (he doesn't respond to any kind of poking anywhere on his body). If something, he is too rubbery. It seems, feels and looks like a big piece of rubber.
        He's two. He is a big piece of rubber.

        How much work are you putting him into at this age? If you've got this much material to suggest he isn't quite right, it sounds like you're putting him to quite a bit of work. I'd consider backing off and turning him out to be a horse.

        Does he have pasturemates to play with? Room to roam & run? That's what he needs at this age to build a strong, balanced body. Ground work for manners and the tiniest bit of beginning training-- introduction to tack, a short longe here or there-- but not work, not to evaluate gaits, not yet.

        Good luck with him, and seriously consider slowing down. It's a long journey. Invest the patience now and have a sound, happy horse at 10, 20, and 30.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
          I have a very well bred 2 YO colt WB that is not quite right.

          I was playing with him on groung work and realized that his gaits are not pure. He is not lame, but uneven.
          I asked my vet and she said that he had a rotated pelvis.
          I had him seen by a vet and he showed signs of neuro deficit on a couple of tests.

          He was a very fancy colt and did really well at his keurings (top 3 in the US).

          So here are a couple of more info :
          He is really, really, really laid back. It makes everything harder to diagnosed because I don't really know if he trips or looks sluggish because he is so lazy or if he is really showing signs of uncoordination. We are talking about a horse who lies down between 2 to 5 hours a day !!!!

          He is a little uneven in the back end at a trot on a circle

          He swaps leads a lot at the canter (he can do 10 o 12 clean tempis in a row all by himself in a pasture).
          He is still butt high (big time) 2 to 3 inches difference between in front and butt.

          He is on low starch diet (triple crown lite, T/A hay and florida poor grass).

          He travels very wide behind all the time.

          He has no issues to bend his neck, or to walk with his head up in the air.

          He doesn't show any signs of being sore or stiff anywhere (he doesn't respond to any kind of poking anywhere on his body). If something, he is too rubbery. It seems, feels and looks like a big piece of rubber.

          He has been tested for EPM (blood test sent to University of Davis) and it came back with a 30% positive which has been ruled out by my vet as being conclusive).

          His flexion test are fine, he is sound all the way around.

          My vet is now talking about wobblers, but it is so much money to test for it that I was just wondering if it could be something else ?

          Any idea ?
          Well, my thought would be Wobblers or OCD maybe? Is it the same leg always? Or a little goofy on both hind legs? Can't they just radiograph the neck to rule out wobblers? I know they do Mylograms for more definitive diagnosis, but I thought x-ray was the first step?


          Or it could be neither - either way, I would have an experienced vet out to check him soon.

          ETA - sorry, just re-read your post. If he flexes fine, I'm inclined to think Wobblers. I would take him to a vet familiar with this to check him out for peace of mind at least.

          Good luck with him!

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Bayou Roux View Post
            He's two. He is a big piece of rubber.

            How much work are you putting him into at this age? If you've got this much material to suggest he isn't quite right, it sounds like you're putting him to quite a bit of work. I'd consider backing off and turning him out to be a horse.

            Does he have pasturemates to play with? Room to roam & run? That's what he needs at this age to build a strong, balanced body. Ground work for manners and the tiniest bit of beginning training-- introduction to tack, a short longe here or there-- but not work, not to evaluate gaits, not yet.

            Good luck with him, and seriously consider slowing down. It's a long journey. Invest the patience now and have a sound, happy horse at 10, 20, and 30.
            Thank you for your input.
            He has never been worked at all !!!!
            He is groomed once or twice a week. I taught him to cross tie, I put the saddle on in the cross ties and the bridle. I got him used to wearing wraps. He stands for the farrier.
            He can lead at the walk and the trot (he showed in hand 3 times) and he has been ponied at the walk a couple of times at the walk and trot for a few minutes.
            He has never, never been worked under saddle, in a round pen or on a longe line.
            I I was just watching him goof with his pasture mates and saw that things were not normal. I called the vet and we looked at him in the round pen so we could judge what is going on.
            I don't believe in working horses too early.
            I get on mine when they are 3 YO during the summer, give them the winter off, get back on in the spring, train them in the summer and put them back in pasture for a couple more months. Then they start full time training at 6 YO.

            Thank you for your concerns.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi

              I was just going to say good luck. I would do the wobblers test on him just to rule it out and then get a chrio and bowen threapist (if you have one) to sort out any body issue. Hopefully he is just growing but I really do understand your concerns. Sounds like he is lucky to have you.

              Comment


              • #8
                I would want a soundness exam with xrays to rule out OCD or other problems

                Best Wishes!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by mademoiselle View Post
                  Thank you for your input.
                  He has never been worked at all !!!!
                  ...
                  He has never, never been worked under saddle, in a round pen or on a longe line.
                  I I was just watching him goof with his pasture mates and saw that things were not normal. I called the vet and we looked at him in the round pen so we could judge what is going on.
                  ...
                  Ah, this is a lot clearer & much more info! Sorry to have made an assumption about how you were seeing him go-- so many folks start too much, too soon and I apologize for filling in the blanks with an assumption.

                  Agreed that if you're seeing this much imbalance & offness just at liberty, you may be seeing something other than growth spurts/youth. In addition to the vetting processes, can you get in touch with the breeders and run this whole scenario by them? Something they've seen before? Something they're experiencing with that season's get? Or those by that mare/stallion? Sometimes genetics or common influence may have shown up, and they may have some information.

                  Best wishes on your journey with him!
                  Last edited by Bayou Roux; May. 22, 2009, 09:10 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    expensive tests

                    Hi,

                    I have a three year old hano who, while not uneven or lame, went through stages where he looked more like a giraffe on valium than a future dressage horse. He had a 'loose-jointed' and gangly, lazy way of going that worried me from time to time. He is growing out of it now, and I can see where muscling and wither development are making a diff.

                    As to your baby...
                    My thought is, check out any possible diagnosis that you can *do something about.* OCD is an example of a problem with a "fix" -- but his symptoms don't suggest OCD. If you have money lying around, maybe some xrays, but of what? I would focus my diagnostic efforts on anything you can that can be cured or managed with early treatment.

                    I would not bother with tests that might show a problem you can't do anything about (I think neuro issues/wobblers are an example). If he really has a problem, you'll know soon enuf. If he grows out of it, you'll have saved yourself the money/aggravation.

                    He sounds wonderful and I hope you are mistaken about his movement. good luck!
                    http://behindthebitblog.com
                    Dressage, riding, sport horse blog
                    BTBbrowbands.com
                    Unique browbands for dressage and hunter riders

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Does anyone else think that lying down for 2-5 hours a day seems like a lot for a 2 year old?
                      Chiros know and see things that regular vets don't. So do really talented farriers. I'd have the chiro out and have him adjusted. Have someone evaluate his feet (a really good chiro can do this), and, strangely enough, I'd have someone look at his teeth. Tooth trouble can look like a lameness.
                      "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

                      "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My WB gelding rested (on the ground) a LOT until he was into his 3yo year. I don't think it's abnormal at all at 2-5 hours a day.
                        ______________________________
                        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My wobbler did not like to lay down. Does he get up normally after laying down?

                          I have a 4 year old TB that is loving his naps and I would guess when the sun is just right he is sleeping about 3 hours total outside each day.

                          When you do the simple neuro tests like setting one hoof on top of the other (hind leg) or pulling his tail when he walks - what do you find?

                          I agree with getting out a good chiropractor.

                          Good luck and hope it is just awkward growing.

                          Comment

                          • Original Poster

                            #14
                            Thanks for all the answers.

                            I decided to wait a little bit before spending the money for wobblers.

                            I'm working on getting a good chiro out to check him out. His teeth are fine, my dentist looked at him recently (he is a top, top dentist so I trust his judgement).

                            I decided to put him on Vitamin E and Se supplement and to get the hay analyzed. I doubt that he has EPSM but some of the symptoms look awfull close to home ... so, who knows.
                            In 6 months, I will get him checked from ears to toes and see where we are at.

                            I will see after the chiro comes, what she thinks.

                            Keep ideas coming, just in case missed something.

                            Comment


                            • #15


                              No real suggestions, but if it makes you feel better, I *hated* the way my Oldenburg moved when he was 2/3 -- I never would have called him lame behind, but his trot was just a little funny (a lot of people didn't really see it, bit I & the vet could definitely tell) and he couldn't hold a lead on any circle to save his life. Since I don't have a ton of money and he wasn't really actually lame, I decided to see what happened when he came into work. (Since I'm in no rush, I didn't start doing much work at all until he was 4 and I basically took it easy through his 4th year).

                              He's coming 6 now, and he's doing really brilliantly. He's never been on supplements or hand anything done to him except a couple adjustments. He just needed to grow up and get some strength. The lead-swapping tendencies are totally gone -- now he can even hold a counter canter on a 20m circle. Obviously I'm never seen your horse & even if I did I'm no vet or pro, but thought this might make you feel a little better.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It almost sounds like the beginning stages of EPM... sometimes when the horse is very healthy and well cared for it seems as though the EPM is very slow in developing in my opinion.

                                Our trainer's horse started to show tiny little signs of being just not quite right... had vets out, massage people... all thought it was a slight injury... worked on him for months to get him back... he just kept going downhill but very, very slowly. It took almost a year for them to figure it out because first vet said no way it was EPM. The symptoms were so mild it was a tough call.

                                Cindy
                                Watching Hawk Arabians
                                Home of ZEGAS
                                *Ganges x Zabrynka
                                http://www.watchinghawkarabians.com

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Hi
                                  My almost 3 yr old Hanoverian gelding is also doing something funny the past 2 months. It is a "hitch-ey" walk, some strides normal, some hitchey, that is the best way to describe it. Trot and canter are normal. Turned out 24/7, good nutrition, etc. Three vets (two who have examined him and one specialist who treats my other horse) have told me this is most likely a growth phase. One vet described it to me as "his bones are growing differently than his ligaments right now" and to give it time. His patella is a little loose right now, neuro exam normal, he is definitely growing at the moment and it appears to be giving him a temporarily straighter hind leg. I did have the chiropractor out and she said he was also uneven right side to left side. One vet suggested estrogen as this loosens the ligaments, I tried that for a month but no difference. She also suggested a chondroitin and HA supplement so he is on that plus a good diet balancer. It is hard to watch and to give it time but I am hopeful they are all right and this is just a phase! Hope that is also the case for yours!
                                  Keeley

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This will sound wierd but Farrier's Formula is a very good supplement for growing horses....MSM can be helpful too. Love the fact that you have him on low starch diet...keep that up. I think your plan to wait a little bit is a good one. Big growing lazy colts can change so much in a few months. If it is OCD, wobblers or some other disorder it is going to show its self to you ..... just be very good with the diet and cross your fingers. I had one that I was convinced must have a bone chip in a hind ankle but all is fine now that he has caught up with himself. The big colts are the worst and they take longer. Watch your calium/phos ratios. Good luck and try to stay calm and not over study the issue. If something is really off it will get worse....my bet is this is going to just go away.

                                    Comment

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