Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You're responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the Forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it--details of personal disputes may be better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts, though are not legally obligated to do so, regardless of content.

Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting. Moderators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts unless they have been alerted and have determined that a post, thread or user has violated the Forums' policies. Moderators do not regularly independently monitor the Forums for such violations.

Profanity, outright vulgarity, blatant personal insults or otherwise inappropriate statements will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Users may provide their positive or negative experiences with or opinions of companies, products, individuals, etc.; however, accounts involving allegations of criminal behavior against named individuals or companies MUST be first-hand accounts and may NOT be made anonymously.

If a situation has been reported upon by a reputable news source or addressed by law enforcement or the legal system it is open for discussion, but if an individual wants to make their own claims of criminal behavior against a named party in the course of that discussion, they too must identify themselves by first and last name and the account must be first-person.

Criminal allegations that do not satisfy these requirements, when brought to our attention, may be removed pending satisfaction of these criteria, and we reserve the right to err on the side of caution when making these determinations.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it's understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users' profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses -- Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it's related to a horse for sale, regardless of who's selling it, it doesn't belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions -- Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services -- Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products -- While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements -- Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be "bumped" excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues -- Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators' discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the �alert� button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your �Ignore� list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you'd rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user's membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 5/9/18)
See more
See less

Any ideas? Strange "tissue" in hoof won't grow normally

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Any ideas? Strange "tissue" in hoof won't grow normally

    I'm hoping someone on this board has had a similar experience they could share.

    I'll try to be brief but descriptive.


    Fall 2008:
    Horse passed pre-puchase, promptly blew out a large abcess out the back of the heel. Only lame for a day or so. Horse was seen by Vet #1, presented like a normal abcess, x-rays clear. Much foot soaking, then treatment for thrush I probably caused by soaking too long.

    Winter 08/09:
    Horse ripped off huge piece of frog in turnout. We assumed it had been weakened by the old abcess tissue growing down. Continued treating for thrush as per farrier's instructions.

    The frog just would not heal properly. Most of it grew back, but one side had a "blemish" that would seem to be healing, then develop a groove which eventually widened, cracked and would leave a sore oozing spot in the frog. Farrier not worried, advised to keep treating for Thrush.

    Feb. 09:
    Got vet #2 to check out weird area of frog. He suggested we would have to cut out the part of the frog that wasn't healing, with local sedation and farrier. Theorized that we would need to cut down to new tissue, then allow to heal normally. Farrier thought he could do this without needing to block the foot, and did so. Frog only seemed normal for a week or so, then groove started to develop again.

    2 1/2 weeks ago: With vet #2 and farrier, blocked foot and cut out "blemished" looking frog. The bad looking area went up and up, gradually narrowing in to a smaller point. Vet left before farrier had finished, unfortunately the bleeding got so bad farrier had a hard time seeing what he was doing. He did his best, hoped he got it all out. Horse lost half his frog, some sole. Vet's statement: "I don't know what this is, I've never seen anything like this before."

    This past weekend had to have vet #2 out to check an irritated eye on this same horse, so asked him to look at the foot at the same time. He felt (as do I) that the area the blemish was is not growing back as is the rest of the sole and frog that were cut out. The area of concern is slightly darker in color, and now spongy while the normal tissue looks/feels good.
    Vet suggests we try cutting it out again, this time laying the horse down and using tourniquet to ensure we get it all.

    I'm really hoping this kind of thing sounds familiar to someone. The vet did say it didn't look like hoof canker to him, if that helps. Before we do the second procedure I think I will take the horse back to vet #1 for a second opinion. Does this sound like something we should be biopsing? Could it just be damaged tissue from stepping on something that caused the large abcess last fall?

    Any suggestions/recommendations? I'll gladly take anything you've got!


    Pictures would help all...
    Sorry! But that barn smell is my aromatherapy!
    One of our horsey bumper stickers!
    Add Very Funny Horse Bumper Stickers on facebook


      I've taken some but they really don't show anything well at all. They are not 3-D enough to really show anything, and the darker area is at the moment the size of a pencil eraser.

      I'll try again, but I don't think I'll be able to show anything. Hmm, maybe Photoshop could help some how.

      I'll get the pics off the camera and work with them.


        I don't know enough to be of any real help in terms of what's going on, but I was surprised when I got to the part where you say the vet left before the farrier finished and the bleeding got so bad the farrier had trouble seeing what he was doing (but evidently continued cutting), and the horse lost "some sole" and the vet had no idea what was going on. I have to say that I find all that frightening. I'd think about getting a new vet, and probably a new farrier as well. I hope you and the horse get some help. I know Ric Redden does consultations.
        The aids are the legs, the hands, the weight of the rider, the whip, the caress, the voice and the use of extraneous circumstances. ~ General Decarpentry


          Is it bothering him? Maybe you should just leave it alone.


            Here are some shots of one persons experience
            The original thread was
            The Coth thread references some people and sites. I would also google and search here for "canker. Good luck.


              Hmmmm, possible Canker comes to mind, but it could also just be a weak, compromised frog thanks to diet implications and ineffective treatment.

              How have you been treating for thrush - what have you used and what does the horse's diet look like?

              Are all his other frogs healthy or are they all a bit soft and spongy?


                I'd look into canker. If you suspect that's what it is, get a specialist. Vets hardly ever see it these days and most don't know how to treat it.


                  Yeah, hoof knowledge varies a lot among vets and for the less common diseases you're probably better off consulting with an experienced therapuetic shoer, of course you should have your vet present and the three of you should work together if possible. I'm not trying to knock your vet, but hooves are a specialty and most vets focus on the rest of the horse (which is a lot to focus on!). I say a farrier who specializes in therapuetic shoeing just because IME those people have seen so many diseased feet they'll be able to diagnose and treat it correctly, as opposed to many farriers who see mostly relatively healthy feet.
                  exploring the relationship between horse and human


                    Pic link added

                    I lightened up a picture, it can be seen here:


                    I too, was surprised when the vet before the job was finished. I wish he hadn't, but I think he assumed the job was almost over.

                    Thanks everyone for the info. For what it is worth, the vet seemed confident it isn't Canker.

                    I'll be taking him for a second opinion with another respected vet. The vet I'm using probably has a bit more experience than a "typical" horse vet around here, and I've always felt he has good instincts. He's been a member of (I think two?) national teams as an assistant vet at FEI competitions in the past couple of years, so others out there also have a good opinion of him.

                    FWIW, I've been treating his thrush with topical treatments - Coppersept, Coppertox and most recently Thrush Stop. It doesn't seem to be thrush, no discoloration etc. but we are having a very wet spring. I did board the horse a year ago over the winter, and he did come from the track with a bad case of thrush which took a while to clean up.


                      I'd be thinking that there is some foreign matter waaay deep in there that noone is seeing. Just irritating enough to cause a non-healing area.

                      I had a similar experience with a horse and (9 months and 2 exploratory surgeries later) it turned out to be a piece of aluminum that was buried very, very, deeply and was not causing any pain.


                        First thought that came to mind is Canker.
                        Originally posted by Martha Drum
                        ...But I don't want to sit helmetless on my horse while he lies on the ground kicking a ball around without a bridle while Leatherface does an interpretive dance with his chainsaw around us.


                          Where do you live? What other options are open to you?

                          Repeating the same RX protocol in the face of past failure doesn't seem like a sensible course of action.

                          In the NE we have some great veterinary referral centers,NB, Tufts, Cornell, same for KY and TX.
                          Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                          Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.


                            Originally posted by Alice View Post
                            FWIW, I've been treating his thrush with topical treatments - Coppersept, Coppertox and most recently Thrush Stop. It doesn't seem to be thrush, no discoloration etc. but we are having a very wet spring. I did board the horse a year ago over the winter, and he did come from the track with a bad case of thrush which took a while to clean up.
                            Looks more like typical frog weakenss.

                            The treatments you have used are generally not very effective. I would get a bottle of White Lightning and start treating it with that.

                            In the meantime I would also investigate to make sure the horse gets all the copper and zinc it needs to grow healthy hoof tissue and not too much NSCs (sugar and starches in the diet) and read this:

                            Copper and zinc uptake can be inteferred with by any of the following:
                            • Compromised digestive tract (worms, not enough good bacteria, ulcers)
                            • Too much iron in water and forage (interferes with copper and zinc uptake)
                            • Not enough zinc and copper in the forage
                            Best wishes


                              I just got an appt for a second opinion on Saturday, so I'm looking forward to that.

                              It is a very localized area - would "frog weakness" present in such a manner?

                              movo - I really think that is a strong possibility. My coach's guess was that was the case.

                              Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond, I really appreciate it.

                              I'm about 9 hours from the closest vet university, but I do have 3 vets within an hour that I respect to go to for help. Hopefully the university's services will not be needed...


                                Originally posted by Alice View Post

                                It is a very localized area - would "frog weakness" present in such a manner?
                                Yes, it is possible.


                                  Before I saw your photo I was thinking this sounded very similar to what I went though with my senior horse. It will be 2 years this August so I'll try to be brief and still not leave out any details.
                                  First off your photo looks a lot less awful than your description and a lot better than my guy at his worst.
                                  My History:
                                  August '07 - barefoot horse bruised his heel in turnout, when 2 days of bute didn't help he went for radiographs that showed bruised tissue deep in the heel itself. Vet's recommendation was to keep him on bute and keep an eye on it. Lameness never completely resolved and one night when I picked the hoof it bled from the sulcus. Back to the clinic where it was determined he had abcessed from the heel bruise and the abcess ahd blown out the sole near the toe. He was prescribed ABX and I was instructed to soak the hoof nightly in a betadine/epsom salt solution and keep it wrapped with the injured part covered by a gauze pad covered with betadine gel .
                                  September '07 - half of his sole has sloughed off, interior hoof structure is visible and he is 3-legged dead lame. Vet examination shows no infection and sole is a glacial pace. Keep wrapping changing dressing twice a day. Horse gets usual turnout and favors the injured foot.
                                  December '07 - sole has mostly regrown but is considerably softer than the healthy side, still medicating & rebandaging twice a day. Horse is sound for turnout and doesn't seem so off on the "bad" foot.
                                  January '08 - enough sole regrowth for glue-on shoes!!! Horse is moving soundly on all four now
                                  March '08 - reset glue-on shoes. Test-ride in the indoor, walk only - still sound
                                  April '08 - back to keg shoes, horse is sound outdoors at the walk & trot
                                  June '08 - back to barefoot & completely sound, owner collapses in exhaustion

                                  Have you had x-rays done?
                                  I'd hesitate using anything caustic - Durasole, Coppertox, even White Lighning - until you know what is causing the abnormal sole growth.
                                  *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                                  Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                                  Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                                  Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015


                                    Good gravy 2Dogs - that sounds like quite the ordeal! Good to hear the horse is doing well now. Poor guy - and poor owner!

                                    I don't think my horse is anywhere near as bad as that! The picture I posted is after the paring away of the weird frog tissue was done - I think about a week later. The sole has never looked to be involved.

                                    X-rays were taken back in the fall, I expect they'll be repeated on Saturday. Both farrier and vet recommended the thrush treatments to toughen up the frog.

                                    Thanks for sharing your experience - I really hope I don't have to go through all that!
                                    My horse has only had a few sore-ish days - like two. Even after getting half his frog pared away. I would guess he would be sore if ridden on harder ground than the indoor arena though.


                                      What does your farrier say he thinks it is, or is he stumped too? Has he consulted with any colleagues to see what they say?

                                      I do think it's a good idea to get new vet opinion. The first step to fixing something is knowing what it is. At least that's the ideal.
                                      exploring the relationship between horse and human


                                        The farrier was reluctant to say anything about it, he did finally say it might be a damaged area from stepping on something - which in turn would have caused the large abcess.

                                        He was really surprised at how far up in to the hoof the weird tissue went. He tried very hard to dig all he could out, it would have been much better if the vet had put a tourniquet on so he could visualize more easily.