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Ramblings about feed trends

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    #41
    I think you have to decide what is "fad" and what is valid information. For me, the specific research tells us that horses were designed to consume forage (among other things) and the horse's system is unique in how quickly is causes feed to pass through the stomach/small intestine and into the hind gut where the horse's diet staples (i.e. forage) is digested and converted into fatty acid.

    Nobody says that horses can't safely convert and utilize calories from sources higher in sol.carbs/starches (such as oats, corn, barley, sweet feed) but the problem is, those feeds (or the calories contained therein) are safely digested in the stomach (before they reach the hind gut) and unfortunately, there is no real formula to tell us how much is too much ... and when you feed more than can be completely digested prior to reaching the hind gut, that is where problems can arise ... and if not necessarily problems arising, certainly setting up the hind gut for issues (in some horses).

    I think we just have to take the information that has been proven to be true and then figure out how best to make it work in our horse's individual lives.

    While fad is using certain products, facts are knowing how the body converts and utilizes those products for its benefit and/or detriment.

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
      Um, I guess you didn't read some of the above posts?
      No, I read all the posts. And I see you repeating the same thing over and over. And I don't see anyone that said diet doesn't effect behavior. I have seen folks say certain diets don't affect THEIR horses. I saw someone mention oats doesn't affect anything (which is not true, at all). But as far as someone coming out and saying 'diet doesn't affect behavior', either I missed the post or you are reading someone's post wrong.


      Some things effect some horses. Just like someone's analogy about people being allergic to peanuts. Doesn't mean peanuts are evil. Some horses can't tolerate certain things and it can affect their behavior and/or their health. Some horses could eat any and all of those evils and still be calm, polite and healthy. I agree with you, for someone to say diet can't affect behavior IS absurd. But I just didn't see anyone say that.

      Comment


        #43
        Originally posted by meaty ogre View Post
        Amen to that! Seriously, if you understand glucose metabolism, insulin, and the impending crash that comes from sugar digestion, HOW can it cause a high? It can't. It could be a reaction to the red dye, poor parenting, a child who has spend 50% of his/her day cooped up in front of a TV screen or computer monitor rather than riding a bike, etc, but it AINT THE DARN SUGAR! Whew. Had to get that out. And I totally agree about the protein. It is not the devil!

        People will continue to declare that oats, alfalfa, molasses, beet pulp, hydrogen, sunshine, etc. make some horses crazy. You know what? Some horses are just plain CRAZY. It happens. Jeffrey Dahmer is just crazy. Whether he eats PB&J, oatmeal, a gluten-free diet or whatever, he's just b@tsh!t crazy. It happens. No reason to blame the improbable.
        Originally posted by jaimebaker View Post
        Who said that?
        It would seem pretty clear that Meaty Ogre doesn't feel diet can affect a horse, especially not sugar.

        It's MUCH more probable that diet is to blame than a horse just being flat out crazy.
        ______________________________
        The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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          #44
          Originally posted by jaimebaker View Post
          No, I read all the posts. And I see you repeating the same thing over and over. And I don't see anyone that said diet doesn't effect behavior. I have seen folks say certain diets don't affect THEIR horses. I saw someone mention oats doesn't affect anything (which is not true, at all). But as far as someone coming out and saying 'diet doesn't affect behavior', either I missed the post or you are reading someone's post wrong.


          Some things effect some horses. Just like someone's analogy about people being allergic to peanuts. Doesn't mean peanuts are evil. Some horses can't tolerate certain things and it can affect their behavior and/or their health. Some horses could eat any and all of those evils and still be calm, polite and healthy. I agree with you, for someone to say diet can't affect behavior IS absurd. But I just didn't see anyone say that.
          Jeez, obnoxious much? I'm not repeating anything over and over. Why don't you do me a favor and put me on ignore? I'll return the favor.

          Thank you JB, for pointing out the obvious.

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by JB View Post
            It would seem pretty clear that Meaty Ogre doesn't feel diet can affect a horse, especially not sugar.

            It's MUCH more probable that diet is to blame than a horse just being flat out crazy.
            She was talking about CHILDREN ffs. Good, I hope you have me on ignore, that way you can't distort my posts either. And she's right, some horses are just crazy and it doesn't have a damn thing to do with their diet. Spare me the drama.

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by jaimebaker View Post
              She was talking about CHILDREN
              The 2nd paragraph was specifically addressing horses.
              ______________________________
              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                #47
                Originally posted by JB View Post
                The 2nd paragraph was specifically addressing horses.
                Yeah, and I quoted that one too. The one that said some horses are just crazy.

                Comment


                  #48
                  Originally posted by JB View Post
                  It would seem pretty clear that Meaty Ogre doesn't feel diet can affect a horse, especially not sugar.

                  It's MUCH more probable that diet is to blame than a horse just being flat out crazy.
                  Yes, and the fact that recent research has shown that horse's on sweet feeds were harder to train than horses on just hay I guess some people just plain like to learn the very hard way

                  Comment


                    #49
                    It's unbelievable how many people want to fix a skinny horse with more grain! Or just feed grain in general. 2 scoops twice a day with a scoop of beet pulp plus this plus that... I'm no expert but that sounds like way too much nonsense to me. I'm a firm believer in lots of good forage, and supplementing with grain if necessary. Same with supplements. I have seen some supplements benefit horses of course (glucosamine {SP?} for example) but some of the supplements they have out there... our animals should be living forever with some of the miracle stuff they have!

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Yes, anyone who has ever read any of my posts knows I wholeheartedly advocate a diet of sugar cubes and molasses for all equines.

                      I'm not trying to discount anyone who has achieved positive results by removing things from or adding things to their horse's diet. If it works for you, great. I'm certianly not trying to discredit studies I'm not familiar with. I just fall in the camp with a few others who don't necessarily throw diet under the microscope when there is a behavioral issue; I'm more apt to do some behavioral modification attempts first. When supernanny comes in on the nanny 911 show, I don't see her pulling the popsicles and chips out of the fridge to solve bad behavior. I do believe that some horses are just high-strung as their nature, and I think that some behavioral issues are just horses being horses.

                      I haven't been on this board as long as many others, but I've been around long enough to know that every spring there will be a handful of threads about aggressive geldings, and a handful more about which calming supplements work best. And just like clockwork people will blame diet/ suggest dietary changes (followed by ulcers, EPM and lyme's disease). Maybe it could just be because the mares in the next field are having vicious heats. When I hear hoofbeats, I don't look for zebras.

                      If this came across as cranky, I'm certain it's because I had a soda today. In fact, I've been doing some research and I think if I just optimize my diet I will be a kinder person and possibly even an olympic athlete too.

                      Comment


                        #51
                        When supernanny comes in on the nanny 911 show, I don't see her pulling the popsicles and chips out of the fridge to solve bad behavior


                        It's never the parent/owner, it's ALWAYS the food/medications/teacher/school system/pesticides/plastic residues.
                        Click here before you buy.

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                          #52
                          Actually, on Nanny 911 she will get rid of sugar treats before bedtime and in one case I actually did see her go through the cabinet.

                          Comment


                            #53
                            I guess having a horse with potentially EPSM makes the diet easy, not.... Before this my horse was on whole oats for years and did awesome! Never hot and always looked good and acted great..Now we have other issues and are doing the low NSC's and the fat and it has made a world of difference in him.....So fad or not it works for us....
                            Mai Tai aka Tyler RIP March 1994-December 2011
                            Grief is the price we pay for love- Gretchen Jackson
                            "And here she comes. Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's ZENYATTA!"

                            Comment


                              #54
                              A change in diet followed by a change in behavior and then deciding to look at the diet is hardly looking for zebras. Sure, I love to kick a horse's butt as much as anyone, but sometimes it makes sense to cut or change the feed.

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