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Won't stand tied...

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    Won't stand tied...

    A boarder's horse has a problem that is getting worse. He won't stand tied, runs back as soon as he feels anything pull against his halter, but lately he has started running back while being tacked and lead around the farm. He is not upset, very calm about the whole thing. He is a "pleasure" horse, goes on 1-2 rides a week, he's fine to ride and has a very low-stress lifestyle, but this rogue behavior is getting dangerous. Yesterday he got away as she was buckling his noseband, today he pulled back as I reached for my gloves, I didn't let go and we went backwards around the barn then I got a stick and we went forwards for a good march. Ever other horse in the barn was freaking, but he was calm as a cucumber. I suggested tying him in a stall and letting him sort it out where he couldn't get away, but she is afraid he will hurt himself and/or the barn. My other ideas include bribing him with sweet treats, or possibly clicker training him to stand...what do you think?

    #2
    We used to tie a bicycle inner tube onto a tie ring and then tie the horse to the tube, he pulls back and the tube stretches. Might be worth a try.

    Comment


      #3
      do not reward a bad behaviour with sweets as it will only make it tens times worse
      the horse is testing each and everyone that handles him and so far hes winning

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Peter026 View Post
        We used to tie a bicycle inner tube onto a tie ring and then tie the horse to the tube, he pulls back and the tube stretches. Might be worth a try.
        Good way to cause a subluxation of the cervical spine. TEACH him to stand. see next post.
        --Gwen <><
        "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
        http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

        Comment


          #5
          nylon halter, tie him up short and high. leave him there. every day he gets tied. everyday. He'll figure it out. This is out of the usual "I'm scared of being tied" he's getting away with pulling and learning he can do what he wants, when he wants. If you're kids, get an adult who is capable around horses to help you out and get this horse tied.

          jane

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            #6
            Originally posted by caballus View Post
            Good way to cause a subluxation of the cervical spine. TEACH him to stand. see next post.
            Good way to flip over a horse, too. I've had a horse break a large TIRE inner tube. A bike inner tube would snap with far less.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by goeslikestink View Post
              do not reward a bad behaviour with sweets as it will only make it tens times worse
              the horse is testing each and everyone that handles him and so far hes winning
              No, one doesn't want to reward BAD behavior with treats but one can certainly reward the WANTED behavior. Clicker training is, when executed properly with exact timing, like clearing the fog off a steamed up mirror for the horse. (and many times for the trainer, too) ... because the EXACT behavior is marked (clicked) at the EXACT INSTANT of that behavior, the horse will much more readily understand just what is wanted from him. The reward is the motivator for the horse to try the exact behavior again!

              Can't teach a horse NOT to do something but sure can teach him something to do INSTEAD OF the unwanted behavior ... in this case a good behavior would be to yield to pressure.
              --Gwen <><
              "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
              http://www.thepenzancehorse.com

              Comment


                #8
                Those stupid Clinton Anderson tie thingies helped my horse.

                He doesn't have a behavioral issue he's just a retard. One day he leaned back on a LEATHER halter and moved my 3100lb trailer 3 feet. Halter never broke.
                After that I got the stupid tie thingy.

                It allows the lead rope to give when he pulls back and it keeps him from panicking further. I think he's only pulled back on it once and he stopped before the lead ran out so it did it's job.
                You have to have one of those braided double nylon leads though. The cotton leads aren't thick enough and pull through to easily.

                Sound like your guy needs a nice set of cross ties backed up to a wall.

                And I would put a tie ring in his stall. She's afraid he may hurt himself but you said yourself he's getting dangerous. I rather him hurt himself than the owner or innocent bi standard.
                http://kaboomeventing.com/
                http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                Comment


                  #9
                  her situation is exactly how i found the tie blocker ring- i was helping a friend rehab an idiot spoiled gelding who had zero rules or ethic. i needed to get through to him but without hurting myself, the barn (not wanting to pay for constant repairs), himself, or anyone else, i bought the tie ring thingie. the first couple times he pulled back he did what he historically did- he ran backwards. but then he figured out he wasn't totally trapped. and that was the intervention he needed for me to be able to teach him how to tie the right way.

                  he's not perfect at it, dont know if he ever will be because no one is enforcing his learnings, but he no longer acts like a total idiot 100% of the time.

                  so now i have a couple of those rings handy. i just keep them around- they are handy to have, easy to set up, and a good segue into teaching a panicking or learned horse to pause for a second long enough to let you teach them something.
                  My blog: Change of Pace - Retraining a standardbred via dressage

                  Comment


                    #10
                    there's a current thread on the Endurance forum right now with links to the blocker tie ring videos, etc...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                      Those stupid Clinton Anderson tie thingies helped my horse.
                      We have those ties at my barn. My barn owner has been a NH trainer for many, many years. He is working with a horse (his daughter's horse, in fact) with the same problem. During a recent NH clinic, he showed us how to work with that. There's one of those tie things on a huge, thick tree. He loops the end of a LONG leadline through that and lets the horse stand. The idea is that the horse can back away to feel safe, but not get the reward of escaping. For added security, the line can be wrapped through a 2nd time or a quick-release knot can be made if needed. When he calms down and stands still, the barn owner rewards with verbal praise and pets. This horse is at the point now where scary objects are introduced to him. Wood objects, lids, etc. are brought to him, waved, tossed in his direction and this horse doesn't respond as much anymore. It's helped him a lot and he has become safer to work with.

                      I'm not explaining this correctly, so it might not come across the way I want it to, but that's the general idea......I hope this helps.....

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Get two large inner tubes used in tractor trailer tires.

                        Get two pieces of chain and chain each tire to each side of the aisle.

                        Tie your rope cross ties to the inner tubes.

                        No horse will break them.

                        This horse will not flip because he does not go berserk. OP says that he is very deliberate and very determined.

                        The ties described above will streach enough that he will give out and quit.

                        Never ever tie a halter breaker with a nylon halter. I know of two horses that broke their neck with that method.

                        CSSJR

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Get two large inner tubes used in tractor trailer tires.

                          Get two pieces of chain and chain each tire to each side of the aisle.

                          Tie your rope cross ties to the inner tubes.

                          No horse will break them.

                          This horse will not flip because he does not go berserk. OP says that he is very deliberate and very determined.

                          The ties described above will streach enough that he will give out and quit.

                          Never ever tie a halter breaker with a nylon halter. I know of two horses that broke their neck with that method.

                          CSSJR

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Get two large inner tubes used in tractor trailer tires.

                            Get two pieces of chain and chain each tire to each side of the aisle.

                            Tie your rope cross ties to the inner tubes.

                            No horse will break them.

                            This horse will not flip because he does not go berserk. OP says that he is very deliberate and very determined.

                            The ties described above will streach enough that he will give out and quit.

                            Never ever tie a halter breaker with a nylon halter. I know of two horses that broke their neck with that method.

                            CSSJR

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Please excuse.

                              My browser is apparently having a halter breaking fit of its own.

                              CSSJR
                              If we do not wish to lose our freedom, we must learn to tolerate our
                              neighbor's right to freedom even though he might express that freedom
                              in a manner we consider to be eccentric.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                                One day he leaned back on a LEATHER halter and moved my 3100lb trailer 3 feet.
                                And people think they can get into a fight with a horse and win

                                I think some people *really* underestimate how strong a horse is.
                                ______________________________
                                The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Get a blocker tie ring and start retraining this horse: http://www.blockerranch.com/

                                  I see plenty of others already said this ;-) It is a REALLY good tool for this sort of problem . All barns should have at least one!

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Good lord, please don't cross tie this horse until he's WELL broke to the single tie.

                                    I agree with the advice to try the blocker tie ring. Or there's The Clip. There's a video on the site. Both devices will give the horse resistance when he tries to pull.

                                    I'd get one of the above and a 30 ft. rope, and go from there.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
                                      Get a blocker tie ring and start retraining this horse: http://www.blockerranch.com/

                                      I see plenty of others already said this ;-) It is a REALLY good tool for this sort of problem . All barns should have at least one!
                                      right on!
                                      I don't leave home without it. And it's made in such a way that I can hook it to the ties on my trailer as well.
                                      http://kaboomeventing.com/
                                      http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                                      Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I'm also a fan of the blocker tie rings; they solve a multitude of problems, and I have several around my farm. But nothing beats a horse who is trained to tie.

                                        When it comes to tying, there seem to be 2 camps. One that uses breakaway everything (ties, halters, clips, etc.) in an effort to save the horse, and one that ties only using unbreakable things in an effort to break the horse (in the broke/trained sense, hopefully not the neck). Coming from an english background, I started in the first camp, but after mingling with the western crowd, I do see a point to the 2nd camp's ideas.

                                        If you want a horse to tie well you have to make it a part of their everyday routine. Obviously start after the horse has been worked and is tired, more inclined to stand still. Next there are 2 paths to take. One is the old "make the right way easy and the wrong way hard" technique where you tie the horse (preferably with blocker ring), and every time he pulls the slack out, back him up/longe him/make him work, and then re-set. Hopefully he'll learn that standing tied=good (reward of rest) and not standing tied=work. Some are not smart enough to follow this unfortunately. I don't know what you do with those other than not buy them.
                                        Next is the easier way of letting a very sturdy post do the work. It is scary to me because of course you picture horses flipping themselves, breaking their necks, etc. But a lot of successful trainers will tie a horse (again, after a tiring work session), let them thrash about and fight the post, and then when they finally give up and settle down, they get untied and fed (rewarded for standing still). I asked a trainer who uses this technique how many horses had broken their necks like this, and he said he'd never had any. He explained that he ties them short and high, and in the stall or enclosed area first, after they've been worked and are likely to be calm, usually with older, calm horses tied nearby. He then moves to the round pen and more open areas, graduating to the tie posts out in the open around his farm. Now I am sure that a horse could cause itself damage using this technique, and he very well may have lied to me about never having one break its neck, but every horse on his farm tied like a statue, and the ones that stayed for any length of time learned to ground tie.

                                        OP - it sounds like this horse is not just an issue when tied, but he's pulling back when handles as well. Is that the case? If so, he doesn't sound like a good treat/clicker training candidate but rather a candidate for a good firm refresher on "I go where my human tells me and stay where my human puts me." (Usually brought on by a case of "I've been doing whatever the heck I want so long I've forgotten my manners.")

                                        Comment

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