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Spider bite?? What else?

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  • Spider bite?? What else?

    Just curious if anyone here had a horse bit by a poisonous spider or other insect that made the horse have the same reaction that venom can do to humans (I've seen this on tv happen to a humans arm or leg...but never an animal??)? This particular horse had his whole leg swell up including the lower hip about 10x the size of normal (was a section on the leg that was a 'bigger' lump than the rest (so swollen 15x the norm...figured this is where the bite was) & then the whole legs "meat" (skin..tissue...muscle...etc..) fell off chunk after chunk till he was down to the bone. Vet clinics around here & local vets stumped. Horse went a course of 2 antibiotics together for 2 weeks & is now just healing. Bled & pussed for about 12 days. We're going on 3 weeks now.... He never had any cut whatsoever on the leg to let infection in.....

    I just took this horse in as the owner was going to put him down -- but I seen him from the first day it started swelling & went over the leg with a mag. glass to try & find a little cut, if any.... He's now walking on the leg & it IS healing...just not sure which action to take now as I got a different suggestion from all 5 vets I talked to!! Hoping to find a similar case out there.
    Last edited by tbracer65; Mar. 26, 2009, 07:15 PM. Reason: more info

  • #2
    Yes...you can probably find my thread in the Breeding Section.

    We have a Sir Donnerhall colt at that farm that was bitten last summer.......there is a thread on it in that section.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by dalpal View Post
      Yes...you can probably find my thread in the Breeding Section.

      We have a Sir Donnerhall colt at that farm that was bitten last summer.......there is a thread on it in that section.
      Thanks --- will go find it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Here it is....it was buried pretty deep

        http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=194022

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Thanks dalpal....it does sound similar since once it burst open chunk after chunk just kept falling off & there was that one bump that was the largest. I've never seen anything like it & I thought I had seen some nasty wounds before!!!. Wonder if I could use this on the horse.....

          http://brown-recluse-spider.ascended...-treatment.htm

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are in an area that has venomous snakes, and it was even moderately warm, it sounds like it could be a pit viper bite...excessive swelling, persistent bleeding, and then sloughing of tissue is pretty classic. Fang marks can be hard (nearly impossible) to find.

            Brown recluse are also bad, although they are over-blamed. There are MANY wounds that are caused by a LOT of other stuff (or even other spiders--they are ALL venomous) that are attributed to brown recluse.

            Glad t hear that pony has turned the corner and is doing better. Sounds like it's wound care now, whatever caused the original problem. Just keep at it...it'll take time but it'll heal!

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              2Jakes...that's what the vets kept saying. They don't know what it could be from, but it looks like it was venom of some sort. After researching on the internet -- there are some human legs that look a lot like my horses --- amazing how the tissue just falls off!! I'll have to research to see what other 'venomous' things are out there. I'm just worried now that maybe I should put him back on antibiotics. Another chunk of skin about 5 inches long fell off last night during cleaning & there was a HUGE chunk of puss under there. No more real bleeding, unless you make it (which the vets say to do...). I'm planning on taking pics here today or tomorrow so I have a before & after...will post them up then.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re...the colt at our barn.

                The skin sloughed off of his ENTIRE leg...he was in a heavy leg bandage for at least 2 months. He lived at the clinic most of the time.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Dalpal,

                  Do you know what they used for the bandaging?....just regular gauze padding? Right now we're using x-large baby diapers with standing bandages (quilt) overtop. One on the lower leg & one on the hock with 3 diapers. The hock is mainly what's blown out....but with the entire leg being so HUGE, the baby diapers barely reach around. Also, we're having trouble keeping the medicine 'on' his leg as it's so hot it literally just melts off. It does look better wrapped, but makes me wonder if I should leave it open? I have it wrapped usually all the time, but have it open now while he's out in a small grassy paddock. We figured he can't really get down & roll to make it dirty & there's no bugs this time of year..... He's finally able to walk on the leg pretty good -- but it's still draining big-time. Diapers are soaked to the max at every bandage change. I'm taking pics of the leg in an hour -- but kind of worried to post links on here as it is pretty nasty looking.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You don't have to worry about that, the more pus the more people want to see the photos here, especially if it is pus like cottage cheese.

                    Seriously though, don't hesitate to post them, the best thing about COTH is the education one can get from the huge variety of people and horses here. Just put a warning for people to not open the photos if they are eating.
                    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
                    Bernard M. Baruch

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I'm going onto photobucket now to post them....how do I change the title of the thread to let them know pics are up?

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        PICS.....BE WARNED!!

                        http://s712.photobucket.com/albums/w...afilter=images

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wow. Unfortunately I have no thoughts on what caused it. What I would suggest is talking to the vet about using amnion to aid healing when you turn the corner past the puss stage. I've seen it do wonders for some ugly wounds, including an entire hind leg from the gaskin down that was skinned and mutilated in a fence.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Okaaay...that is one nasty looking wound! It takes a lot to give me the heebie-jeebies and that qualifies. Poor baby! That's got to be uncomfortable.

                            Has that been cultured and eval'ed for sensitivities to antibiotics? Just curious. MRSA comes to mind seeing those pics. It still could be necrosis from an envenomation. What part of the country do you live in?

                            Whatever caused it, it looks like there might be a granulation bed coming in, so you are making forward progress. Keep bandaging (or not--whatever the vet recommends)...thanks for the pics and hang in there.
                            Lisa

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh God, that is probably one of the nastiest things I have seen in a while. I wish I had some pearls of wisdom but alas, I do not. I have jingles to offer and PLENTY of them are coming your way! Keep us posted! I would love a happy ending to this story. Poor guy.
                              ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
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                              • Original Poster

                                #16
                                This guy is located up in the northeast..... we do have the brown nec. spiders, although I've never seen one & hope I never do.........which led me to think the spider + the one vet stated it looked to be caused by 'venom' the way the meat just fell off in chunks. I'm taking the pics to another "state" vet tomorrow (Monday) to see what he thinks as I was told by a friend last night that this particular vet has dealt with this issue before whereas the others obviously haven't. I really think the horse should still be on antibiotics, but I'm no vet (although I myeswell be as I haven't had a single vet with the same diagnosis yet...). Today it actually looked MUCH better -- leg is completely smooth now besides the hole & it didn't soak the bandage overnight like usual --- just filled the diapers up.

                                Also -- not sure if this matters any -- although it might on the 'infection' or 'venom' issue. The horse is drinking a LOT of water & hence peeing a lot. He's eating his hay good & goes through spurts with his feed, which is expected. Doesn't seem to be in much pain anymore (been on pain medication -- but not much)... I'm just curious about the water intake --- & will ask tomorrow as well.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by tbracer65 View Post
                                  Dalpal,

                                  Do you know what they used for the bandaging?....just regular gauze padding? Right now we're using x-large baby diapers with standing bandages (quilt) overtop. One on the lower leg & one on the hock with 3 diapers. The hock is mainly what's blown out....but with the entire leg being so HUGE, the baby diapers barely reach around. Also, we're having trouble keeping the medicine 'on' his leg as it's so hot it literally just melts off. It does look better wrapped, but makes me wonder if I should leave it open? I have it wrapped usually all the time, but have it open now while he's out in a small grassy paddock. We figured he can't really get down & roll to make it dirty & there's no bugs this time of year..... He's finally able to walk on the leg pretty good -- but it's still draining big-time. Diapers are soaked to the max at every bandage change. I'm taking pics of the leg in an hour -- but kind of worried to post links on here as it is pretty nasty looking.
                                  I'll ask.....I thought it was regular bandaging with lots of vet wrap...but I'll ask tomorrow.

                                  Comment


                                  • #18

                                    Yep..that looks familiar.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Jeez, that's so bad it looks like a horror film fake where you say "that is so unrealistic". I would absolutely continue trying to identify this, for your sake.
                                      If it was caused by any type of bite you want to know so you can have your barn checked and cleared for what ever bit him. If it is a antibiotic resistant staph infection you would also want to know. Don't know if its inter-species transmitted, but man I wouldn't want to wait and find out.
                                      Good for you for taking him and for being persistent trying to find the cause. Keep on going!

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        holy cow!

                                        that's nasty.
                                        we had a mare at our old barn that we were told was bit by a brown recluse (NJ). not sure how they could've been sure. but her reaction was different. she developed giant blisters over her entire body which eventually sloughed off leaving giant patches of exposed raw skin. she ran a very high fever for a while. once the fever broke she seemed to get continuously better. she eventually re-grew the hair and you couldn't tell anything was ever wrong.
                                        http://www.eponashoe.com/
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