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Encysted Strongyles

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  • Encysted Strongyles

    I recently purchased a 2 almost 3 year old gelding. I have received multiple suggestions on what to use to get rid of the encysted strongyles. Over the past couple months the barn owner dewormed him with Equimaxx, followed by ivermectin, and pyrantel (sp?) we the last dewormer. The barn owner recently did a fecal which still showed an overload of strongyles. I have heard mixed things about both deworming with the power pac (panacur) vs using quest plus which contains Moxidectin (sp?) to get rid of the encysted strongyles and was wondering what people's opinions were on what to use to try to get rid of the worms

  • #2
    QUest IS a good wormer, but the level of safety with a power pak is a bit better, heavily loaded horses can have a bad reactin/colic with Quest as it kills all at once, but the power pak is a more gradual die off over five day period. I personally use the five day power pac on the young horses that I know are infested heavily.
    www.shawneeacres.net

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    • #3
      There are pros and cons to both Quest and the PowerPack. If you do a search on this board you'll find lots of past histories. Since you know the horse's de-worming history, either one would probably be a good choice. But you might also want to get some input from your vet.

      I've used both Quest and PP at various times and never had a problem, FWIW.

      Good luck.
      "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

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      • #4
        Personally if it were me, I would just power pac. Quest scares me.
        Missouri Fox Trotters-To ride one is to own one

        Standardbreds, so much more then a harness racing horse.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by shawneeAcres View Post
          QUest IS a good wormer, but the level of safety with a power pak is a bit better, heavily loaded horses can have a bad reactin/colic with Quest as it kills all at once, but the power pak is a more gradual die off over five day period. I personally use the five day power pac on the young horses that I know are infested heavily.
          Actually, from what I have read, you have less likely chance of colic with Quest than Powerpak. The Powerpak kills them. The Quest does not kill them, it paralyzes them and then they die (from starvation?).

          Both of them scare me quite frankly. At least with Quest it's a one shot deal. After 48 hours you can quit worrying. With a Powerpak you have no idea when anything bad might happen. I've heard colic is more likely around day 14 but others have had it happen during the time they are actually Powerpaking. So yeah, they both scare me.

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          • #6
            I just Power-Pac'd

            My 24 yr. old horse started losing weight and having diarrhea. His bloodwork was normal and his fecal clear, but my vet recommended a diet change (to Equine Senior), Pro-Biotics, and a 5-day Power-Pac just in case. I got a lot of great information on this forum because that 5-day, double dose regimen really scared me. On day 4, he seemed a little "gassy," symptoms others had also reported. I just gave him an oral dose of banamine and he was fine later that day. I'm still waiting to see what the Day 14 die-off is going to be like, but so far, so good. My vet said she's never seen a bad reaction to the Power-Pac, and the manufacturer's web site touts it's safety, so I went with it.

            A couple of years ago, I shot a tube of Quest down him as part of his regular rotational deworming, and the next day he had explosive, completely liquid diarrhea. He acted completely normal, tho, and my vet just told me to give him some Pepto-Bismol. That cleared it up, but I haven't used Quest since. Just my experience.

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            • #7
              I am having the same dilemma. The cost difference is staggering and in these economic times I'm sure most people can understand that I am looking a bit more closely at Quest (<$10) as opposed to a PowerPack (>$50).

              My horses have NEVER been wormed for encysted strongyles though. It's only on this board that I've ever heard of them or the need to do either Quest or a PowerPack to get at them. I do a 3-product rotation, with the ivermectin in the fall being the Equimax to get the tapeworms.

              Now surely it's not cumulative -- the strongyles from, say, 2004 have come out of their cysts and have presumably either lived out their lives or (I hope) were killed by my worming rotation. So does this make my horses good or bad candidates for Quest? I "know their worming history" and they are healthy, happy easy keepers.
              Shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you? You are at your very best when things are worst.
              Starman

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              • #8
                I use both Quest and Power Pak. I also use Quest +. I try to alternate Quest with the PP from one year to the next.

                I always suggest people do an ivermectin 2 - 3 weeks before using Quest for the first time. The ivermectin clears out as much as possible so that the horse doesn't suffer from a tremendous parasite die-off from the Quest.

                Ask your vet for some banamine (the paste if you are not comfortable with injections) - it costs less than $20 for injectable and about $25-$30 for the paste. If you get one with an extended expiration date, you can keep it for "just in case". You can go by the vet's office to pick it up. That way, in the event you need it, you have it and can talk with the vet by phone.

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                • #9
                  It is my understanding that the two (quest and power pac) are not exactly interchangeable.

                  I have a very very well maintained horse (wormed via EqTrainer's protocol for one year) and he still was a little--slow-- on the 4th day of Power Pac. A little bit like he might be thinking of not feeling great but he was OK.

                  He also received Quest and I had Zero issues. He is a larger horse and I gave him one full tube.

                  My only issue is I am feeding him way less then I would like. Before the massive worming protocol he ate 3 times as much feed.
                  http://kaboomeventing.com/
                  http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
                  Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by purplnurpl View Post
                    It is my understanding that the two (quest and power pac) are not exactly interchangeable.
                    They are, and they aren't. Quest (moxidectin) does not get the L3 encysted stage. The PP gets ALL stages. But PP can set the horse up for some "colic" issues, since the protocol kills the parasites, leaving them to decay, where they can cause little tiny ulcers everywhere. Most horses never even notice. Some do. That's the "14 day" period that some have mentioned recently - the worst of this issue can be around Day 14. So, it's a tradeoff.

                    My only issue is I am feeding him way less then I would like. Before the massive worming protocol he ate 3 times as much feed.
                    Why is that an issue? How much would you "like" to feed him?
                    ______________________________
                    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JoZ View Post
                      I am having the same dilemma. The cost difference is staggering and in these economic times I'm sure most people can understand that I am looking a bit more closely at Quest (<$10) as opposed to a PowerPack (>$50).
                      PLEASE do a forum search. The cost difference is there, but it is not staggering if you choose the liquid version of the PowerPac. Search the Horse Care forum for "liquid fenbendazole" and you'll read all about how it can be done for as little as $25 a head.

                      Now surely it's not cumulative -- the strongyles from, say, 2004 have come out of their cysts and have presumably either lived out their lives or (I hope) were killed by my worming rotation. So does this make my horses good or bad candidates for Quest? I "know their worming history" and they are healthy, happy easy keepers.
                      The whole reason that small strongyles encyst is so that when for any reason the population of adult strongyles in the gut decreases, the encysted strongyles can immediately take their place. There IS some evidence that it is cumulative--horses who were never treated with moxidectin or PowerPac often show huge encysted worm loads, suggesting that there may be a bigger population of encysted strongyles waiting in the wings than there are adult strongyles floating around in the gut (which makes sense if you're a strongyle species--wouldn't you want to have a backup brigade to perpetuate the life cycle if the first string and second string of defense fell down on the job?).

                      I'm sure that even my horse who was just treated with a PowerPac now has a new set of encysted small strongyles, but I hope that treating him once a year for strongyles helps keep that burden to a minimum. I have not seen any substantial increase in his ability to hold weight because of PowerPac, but it helps me sleep at night knowing that if he ever inexplicably colics, I don't have to kick myself wondering if it was a huge burden of ESS that caused it. Others feel differently, as evidenced by the many horse owners who don't treat for ESS at all. As with most things in horse care, it's a judgment call; I know people who don't worm at all, I know people who worm every 4 weeks like clockwork, and everything in between.
                      Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would and have/am going with a Power Pac.

                        This will get all stages of encysted strongyles as opposed to Quest.

                        I do worm with Quest in September/October and Power Pac in March/April. I use Ivermectin and Equimax for tapes in between. I also follow up my Power Pack with Athelcide about two weeks later. I do double dose all of these except Quest. I follow EqTrainer's method for the most part.

                        -knock on wood- my horse has always had clean fecal tests and no other worm related issues. On top of that I feel like he always looks great for awhile after a Power Pac.

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                        • #13
                          I would go with the PowerPac. I've used it many times on different horses and never had any issues. Honestly if the horse colics from a Powerpac, it means they needed it very, very badly. Just have some banamine paste on hand and you'll be good to go.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thank you guys for your opinions. I did talk to the vet and basically the only answer I got from the vet was I can chose which one I would like to use, just keep an eye on him when doing the treatments. (The vets in my area have previously not been the most helpful). I was/am leaning more towards the Power Pac simply because I do know a lot more about it. We used it quite frequently at the Lazy E (guthrie, ok )where I worked, and never had any issues with the late yearlings that had no prior deworming history, and their condition drastically improved. Since my gelding came to the barn back in September his condition has improved drastically, with the deworming he has had, but the presence of the worms in the fecal exam still has me nervous

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Your horse is very young; I doubt you will have any issues w/it. I worry more about the older ones.

                              JB, I think Purplnurple was joking
                              "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
                              ---
                              The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.

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