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Hoof....Help!/UPDATE/SOUND YEAH!!

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    Hoof....Help!/UPDATE/SOUND YEAH!!

    Thought I would get some ideas before the vet and farrier come out.

    Young horse, just turned 3....back when he arrived last summer he was out 24/7 and couldn't take the flies and pounded the crap out of his feet especially the right front. <he was 2.5 then> My then farrier remarked on what great feet he had. He also said the foot may need to be resected to avoid abcessing and getting debree in it. Had to move horse early fall......new farrier cause one I was using didn't go in the area. Horse abcesses like predicted...classic 3 legged lame, opened, puss, farrier slaps shoe back on within 5 days. Start horse in light work.....3 days a week walk trot....after about 4 weeks horse shows slight lameness in R fore....going to the left. Vet determines it is foot...he is so slightly off he is described as .5 on a scale of 0-5... 5 being dead lame. Not even lame enough to block...we radiograph....vet says a very slight inflammation of coffin bone probably due to pounding foot. So we put him out for winter, as was planned anyway, on Isxoprine and with pads and shoes. Occasionally take a look after 1 month,etc. and horse always appears to be sound. He is CONSTANTLY losing shoe on that foot....like every 2 weeks.

    Time to start him back to work......do some ground work....very tiny lounge, like 5 min big circles just to get him focused....then climb on and walk, halt around hug arena...that is it....next day nothing, Fri....come in no shoe....find shoe...gets tacked back on...he is slightly off again going to left<right fore>...every once in awhile...it is always the outside hoof wall that is reactive, when or if it is reactive.....and that is also where abcess was....

    Horse shows slight reaction where hoof is broken up still...also that is where abcess was....but doesn't react every time... NEVER did...No reaction in heel, over frog, etc...not last Dec, not now...No Heat, no raging pulse....only time there was when abcessed. Radiograph a -ok except for slight roughening, very very slight on ditigal radiograph..last Dec. Flexes great.
    Farrier recommends glu on shoes....thats fine with me...but...first we need to get to bottom of slight lameness is my feel....why glue shoes on to an already slightly off horse until we diagnose? I have him in a sabre sneaker yesterday and today in his stall with "magic cushion" in it.

    What are we missing....this is my feeling.....farrier doesn't go out of his way with interest in solving this. Will see what vet does...she is relatively new to me also. I am a "good" horse owner in the sens that I do not tell a farrier what to do...I do bow at their feet, LOL....I was fortunate for 18 years to have a great farrier years ago...but I no longer live int hat area and where I am living they are far and few between. I am told this guy is very good....but I could use some input as he has none and I called him to talk with him and he called the BO and not me <been told he doesn't like to talk with clients> I have never called him since he started shoeing my horses, but now that I have this problem I feel the need to communicate and get his thoughts.....the BO doesn't pay his bill I do...he has yet to return my call....

    Any ideas farrier, vets etc? Please NO fighting...I would like this thread to not be reduced to name calling like so many other "hoof" posts I see....I don't need it, don't have the time or tolerance.....just want a different bunch of views to process.
    I am a medically knowledgable person so will shift though and contemplate what I think may be relevant....any questions about this beasties feel free to PM me

    Thanks for any ideas/Help
    Last edited by Parrotnutz; Apr. 16, 2009, 12:18 PM.
    Adriane
    Happily retired but used to be:
    www.ParrotNutz.com

    #2
    Radiograph a -ok except for slight roughening, very very slight on ditigal radiograph..last Dec. Flexes great.
    What do you mean by " roughening"? Do you have any photos to share?

    Comment


      #3
      Amen on the "no fighting" comment...I cringe now when I see hoof threads.

      If I were you, I'd find a new farrier, one who is willing to work with YOU (the bill-payer and horse OWNER) and your vet. Does you vet have any suggestions?
      JB-Infinity Farm
      www.infinitehorses.com

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by spotmenow View Post
        Amen on the "no fighting" comment...I cringe now when I see hoof threads.

        If I were you, I'd find a new farrier, one who is willing to work with YOU (the bill-payer and horse OWNER) and your vet. Does you vet have any suggestions?
        Yup, that is my thought. I have a problem as to the area I am in....really good farriers are far and few between which is most frustrating. I "think" the farrier will work with me...I "think" the problem is he is used to a lot of woman "telling" him what they want done when they know nothing....I think once we talk and he sees I am not an idiot nor will I tell him his job he "may" be OK...if not....I will find someone else. I am going with the benefit of the doubt first....new farrier second. I have a habit of seeing all sides.
        The farrier I Loved for 18 years many many people Hated
        Adriane
        Happily retired but used to be:
        www.ParrotNutz.com

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
          What do you mean by " roughening"? Do you have any photos to share?
          Nope no photos to share....I have the radiographs.....and if you are familiar with looking at them......the edge of the coffin bone has a very light roughening....definition: not as smooth as it was in PP radiograph....as in inflamed....not going to label it with medical names....but it is indictative of when a horse has concussion constantly and get an inflammtion....it was not enough to alram the vet who is a lamness vet and not enough to alarm me.

          I am thinking this may not even be the "problem" he is having...thats why I asked for other opinions....he is growing more heel in that foot at present because he is not bearing as much weight is my guess.....
          Adriane
          Happily retired but used to be:
          www.ParrotNutz.com

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Parrotnutz View Post
            Yup, that is my thought. I have a problem as to the area I am in....really good farriers are far and few between which is most frustrating. I "think" the farrier will work with me...I "think" the problem is he is used to a lot of woman "telling" him what they want done when they know nothing....I think once we talk and he sees I am not an idiot nor will I tell him his job he "may" be OK...if not....I will find someone else. I am going with the benefit of the doubt first....new farrier second. I have a habit of seeing all sides.
            The farrier I Loved for 18 years many many people Hated
            Having misspent much of my youth and wasted more years of my life in your fine state than I care to remember I can tell you they have more horseshoers per sqare inch than any place on earth.

            Few and far between would have been believable in North Dakota, not there. What's more being so competitive of a place most of them are among the best simply because sub-standard won't survive there.

            Want to re-think what you're saying a little bit? A few of us keep fresh batteries in our BS detectors at all times
            George

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by JHUshoer20 View Post
              Having misspent much of my youth and wasted more years of my life in your fine state than I care to remember I can tell you they have more horseshoers per sqare inch than any place on earth.

              Few and far between would have been believable in North Dakota, not there. What's more being so competitive of a place most of them are among the best simply because sub-standard won't survive there.

              Want to re-think what you're saying a little bit? A few of us keep fresh batteries in our BS detectors at all times
              George

              Not quite sure what you mean by re-think what I am saying and fresh BS batteries???

              While NJ does have more farriers than many states, there are pockets of NJ that the good ones won't or cannot go to and I am in one of those.....The really good ones are totally independent and do not HAVE to go to really nice, but not centrally located barns. This is a new and frustrating area to me so maybe you can enilghten me privately as to farriers in my area....in looking at the farrier site and word of mouth most say the same thing in this area.

              I am very direct and BS is NOT my style if that is what you are infering? Oh, and I pay my farrier BEFORE my mortgage
              Adriane
              Happily retired but used to be:
              www.ParrotNutz.com

              Comment


                #8
                Inflammation can also come from other sources and more often than not it is actually diet related. Make sure that this is not possibly a factor here or you'd just be fighting an uphill battle.

                Want to re-think what you're saying a little bit? A few of us keep fresh batteries in our BS detectors at all times
                George
                And the derailment has already started.....sigh

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BornToBeRight View Post
                  Inflammation can also come from other sources and more often than not it is actually diet related.
                  Couldn't help but throw that in could you
                  And the derailment has already started.....sigh
                  Which inevitably happens wherever you go
                  Hey BTBR,
                  Is it true you got a job writing for Globe or Star or one of those papers?
                  George

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Where in NJ are you? I am from NJ - maybe I can help......sure it is in hoof? have you flexed knee/shoulder???

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by BornToRide View Post
                      Inflammation can also come from other sources and more often than not it is actually diet related. Make sure that this is not possibly a factor here or you'd just be fighting an uphill battle.
                      This is not a dietary issue.....he did damage the hoof. PLus the BOs are very into nutrition and feed appropriately
                      Adriane
                      Happily retired but used to be:
                      www.ParrotNutz.com

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Parrotnutz View Post
                        Yup, that is my thought. I have a problem as to the area I am in....really good farriers are far and few between which is most frustrating. I "think" the farrier will work with me...I "think" the problem is he is used to a lot of woman "telling" him what they want done when they know nothing....I think once we talk and he sees I am not an idiot nor will I tell him his job he "may" be OK...if not....I will find someone else. I am going with the benefit of the doubt first....new farrier second. I have a habit of seeing all sides.
                        The farrier I Loved for 18 years many many people Hated
                        Parrotnutz:

                        Where in NJ are you located I know of 2 really good farriers I can recommend. PM if you want to and I'll send you contact info.

                        I for one would like to see the xrays.

                        Thanks

                        Kim

                        Comment


                          #13
                          It sounds like you are describing pedal osteitis from his stomping flies. I'm not a shoer, but I believe the treatment usually involves pads.
                          "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Glue on shoe with pad would keep the shoe on(stomping loosens nails) and lessen the concussion from stomping, thus reducing inflammation. If that doesn't help you can look deeper.

                            Any chance your horse could go on night turnout only? Some horses really do themselves damage by stomping and your horse sounds like one of them.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BumbleBee View Post
                              Glue on shoe with pad would keep the shoe on(stomping loosens nails) and lessen the concussion from stomping, thus reducing inflammation. If that doesn't help you can look deeper.

                              Any chance your horse could go on night turnout only? Some horses really do themselves damage by stomping and your horse sounds like one of them.
                              he has not been out stomping since I moved him in the fall....the lameness didn't show up until after that

                              Vet is coming out tomorrow...I spoke with the farrier and he is not convinced there is still a bruise. he and I think it is either the hoof wall at this point or it's up higher and not the foot at all....

                              Will update
                              Adriane
                              Happily retired but used to be:
                              www.ParrotNutz.com

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Without sounding rude-unless I am missing some pieces in the timeline-why in such a hurry with such a young horse?

                                He was 3? abscesses? shoes back on in 5 days and back to work?

                                *I* would pull his shoes, evaluate his hooves, make darn sure they are in good health with healthy structures (if not develop a plan to get them there) and give him some time to heal.

                                I felt hurried reading the post! Like there is a big hurry to get this young horse GO-ING.

                                Sometimes time does wonders.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by JHUshoer20 View Post
                                  Having misspent much of my youth and wasted more years of my life in your fine state than I care to remember I can tell you they have more horseshoers per sqare inch than any place on earth.

                                  Few and far between would have been believable in North Dakota, not there. What's more being so competitive of a place most of them are among the best simply because sub-standard won't survive there.

                                  Want to re-think what you're saying a little bit? A few of us keep fresh batteries in our BS detectors at all times
                                  George
                                  Was this really necessary??

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by LMH View Post
                                    Without sounding rude-unless I am missing some pieces in the timeline-why in such a hurry with such a young horse?

                                    He was 3? abscesses? shoes back on in 5 days and back to work?

                                    *I* would pull his shoes, evaluate his hooves, make darn sure they are in good health with healthy structures (if not develop a plan to get them there) and give him some time to heal.

                                    I felt hurried reading the post! Like there is a big hurry to get this young horse GO-ING.

                                    Sometimes time does wonders.

                                    This is the bad thing about emails....I am much better with the verbal word...I am old, LOL

                                    "work" is a relative term....to me it's anything outside the pasture.....believe me this boy has not "WORKED"

                                    He came to me "backed"....the barn I was we felt he would be happy outside 24/7 being a young horse....he said no way....FLIES and proceded to stomp 24/7 and BO would not give me a stall.....he broke up his foot....bruised it...it abcessed.....thats what can happen.

                                    I left the barn...he got a stall....Nov. we lightly rode him...10 min 3 times a week....walk...a little trot.....get the picture?

                                    shoes back on after abcess quickly was farriers doing....he has front shoes.....broken and bruised feet....vet said shoes and pads....help feet not break up more and heal bruise...he has been turned out since...

                                    We started working him last week.....I should have said "in hand" work...he is 17 hands and craves attention from humans....works to our advantage....to me all handling of him is "work"....

                                    sorry if i didn't clarifiy this....
                                    Adriane
                                    Happily retired but used to be:
                                    www.ParrotNutz.com

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Thanks for the clarification!

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Update/ SOUND

                                        I forgot to update everyone....my boy was sound 2 days later....we put glue ons on his front feet just until the broken foot grows out more.....we think he just pinched it with the nail.
                                        I jumped and got paranoid because it was the foot that he broke up and bruised last fall.
                                        Thank Goodness he has been sound and flatting 3 days a week....just wanted to let you all know!!!
                                        I feel so much better
                                        Adriane
                                        Happily retired but used to be:
                                        www.ParrotNutz.com

                                        Comment

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